[Cerpin]

What the actual feck? Darmain looks like someone who was a lucky loser in a contest to get into the United team. Horrific might have been an understatement if anything. He's been terrible defensively. At every aspect of defensive play in fact. It's only the new toy syndrome that's preventing the criticism towards him from being even worse.

You're right about Valencia being a squad player at best but when the other option is Darmian then he's got to be an unquestionable starter. I don't even like Valencia, who in an ideal world would have been sold long ago.

Rojo had a terrible season last time round as well. Just took some time for the new signing feel good factor to wear off before people realized just how shite he was. Definitely the worst defender I've seen at United.

You're just being overly negative now. Darmian, at his best, is quite an accomplished defender. Good anticipation, good in the air and tackle, and strong one-vs-one. He's just looked bereft of confidence for most of the season, and that's likely something to do with LvG -- or perhaps he's just not mentally strong enough.

And neither Rojo or Darmian were worse than Alex Buttner.

 

[Norris]

@Ijazz17 Your showing average per game. Bearing in mind how Darmian as started more games and Valencia has come of the bench in most games that skews the results quite severely.

That's why I showed average per game. Coz showing the total numbers was useless and I am not quite sure how the 90 min metrics thing works. So Average is the best qualifier for such a comparison. I agree that Valencia has had most games as a sub. But by that point games are usually already won or lost. I just felt this was the best way to represent the numbers.

 

[Norris]

I would rate the like this:

1v1 defending:
Valencia- 7
Darmian- 5

Positioning:
Valencia- 3
Darmian- 9

Attacking:
Valencia- 7
Darmian- 3


And I think Valencia's positioning is bad enough that I'd prefer Darmian for most games.
FWIW, I'd give Rafael 7s in all 3 categories, making him comfortably better than both overall.

I think you are being a little generous with Darmian for his attacking. . He's been pretty woeful all season long.
Agree about Rafael though

You're just being overly negative now. Darmian, at his best, is quite an accomplished defender. Good anticipation, good in the air and tackle, and strong one-vs-one. He's just looked bereft of confidence for most of the season, and that's likely something to do with LvG -- or perhaps he's just not mentally strong enough.

And neither Rojo or Darmian were worse than Alex Buttner.

Yeah, his confidence is rock bottom from what I observed. van Gaaled I guess.

 

[Nighteyes]

There's no new toy syndrome for either of Darmian or Rojo. People are just the using that as a reason to damage them more than needed. People are just over-reacting like crazy. If you go check squawka and compare those three players for the season, like expected Darmian wins most of the Defensive categories and Valencia the attacking one's. So how is it possible that what you are saying about Darmian being woeful defensively is not agreeing with actual statistics ?? That doesn't make sense to me. I agree he hasn't had a great debut season, but I do think he can get much much better. And confidence wise, he is shot. That's plain as day to anyone who sees him in a game. But to suggest Valencia is miles ahead is just plain wrong. They offer different things to a game. Personally, I still want to see Varela given more game time, and Valencia his back-up. But in tight tactical games against maybe Pep's City or Chelsea, Darmian to play at RB.

As for Rojo, again more over-reaction. He's not played much this season and there have been better LB's than him as well. But he was indeed very good last season except for the moments of madness he produced every now and then. Again, like Valencia, he's a good squad player to have. Once Shaw returns, that's exactly what he will be as well. So I don't see the point in castigating him so much and going as as far as calling him the worst defender to have ever donned a United Jersey. His role is clearly defined once we have a full strength squad. Same an Valencia, same as Darmian.

Because statistics are everything are they?

The bit about wanting him to play him in big games is close to having me in stitches. Has awful positioning, is a complete fanny and makes so many mistakes. The idea that he is "tactically good" (I'm not even sure what this actually means) is positively hilarious.

It's not an over reaction. He is genuinely that terrible. No idea why we would have him even as a squad player when we already have so many better players. He's unfit half the time and shit all the time.

You're just being overly negative now. Darmian, at his best, is quite an accomplished defender. Good anticipation, good in the air and tackle, and strong one-vs-one. He's just looked bereft of confidence for most of the season, and that's likely something to do with LvG -- or perhaps he's just not mentally strong enough.

And neither Rojo or Darmian were worse than Alex Buttner.

At his best? Maybe in Italy but he's shown none of those supposed qualities here.

Buttner was a better player than Rojo and didn't cost four times the money either.

 

[Revan]

Buttner was a better player than Rojo and didn't cost four times the money either.

Buttner was just terrible. Rojo is shit, but Buttner was in an entirely different level of shitness.

You will eat your words about Darmian next season, once we'll have a non clueless manager in charge.

 

[berbatrick]

Because statistics are everything are they?

The bit about wanting him to play him in big games is close to having me in stitches. Has awful positioning, is a complete fanny and makes so many mistakes. The idea that he is "tactically good" (I'm not even sure what this actually means) is positively hilarious.

I thought this was an anti-Valencia post. His fans on this forum used to use tackles/min to show what a world-class defender he is. And you're saying Darmian's positioning is bad

 

[berbatrick]

Buttner was just terrible. Rojo is shit, but Buttner was in an entirely different level of shitness.

You will eat your words about Darmian next season, once we'll have a non clueless manager in charge.

Buttner was the worst fullback I've seen, including all the random youngsters we've played this season. And Darren Fletcher. And Ryan Giggs.
The only comparison I can find is Chimbonda in the Blackburn 7-1 game when Nani could choose which side he wanted to get past him every single time.

 

[Nighteyes]

Buttner was just terrible. Rojo is shit, but Buttner was in an entirely different level of shitness.

You will eat your words about Darmian next season, once we'll have a non clueless manager in charge.

Rojo is the comfortably the worst defender I've seen at United.

He may do that. Doesn't change the fact he's had an abomination of a season.

 

[Nighteyes]

I thought this was an anti-Valencia post. His fans on this forum used to use tackles/min to show what a world-class defender he is. And you're saying Darmian's positioning is bad

I don't care for Valencia either. Ideally we'll go out and buy a proper new RB who's not totally shite but until we do that Valencia should be ahead of Darmian and it's not even close.

 

[Norris]

Because statistics are everything are they?

The bit about wanting him to play him in big games is close to having me in stitches. Has awful positioning, is a complete fanny and makes so many mistakes. The idea that he is "tactically good" (I'm not even sure what this actually means) is positively hilarious.

It's not an over reaction. He is genuinely that terrible. No idea why we would have him even as a squad player when we already have so many better players. He's unfit half the time and shit all the time.

They definitely aren't. But in cases where people disagree on something despite pretty much watching the exact same match or matches, they are an excellent tool to make a point.

Really can't do anything if you are going to rate Tony V as a better defender than Darmian. Just going to use the same old phrase I have used endless times here . Agree to disagree.

 

[Cerpin]

I think you are being a little generous with Darmian for his attacking. . He's been pretty woeful all season long.
Agree about Rafael though


Yeah, his confidence is rock bottom from what I observed. van Gaaled I guess.

Indeed. He looked good at the start of the season but it's swiftly gone down hill after that.

Because statistics are everything are they?


At his best? Maybe in Italy but he's shown none of those supposed qualities here.

Buttner was a better player than Rojo and didn't cost four times the money either.

He's showed them in glimpses here. At the start of the season -- he was very good against Tottenham at home, for example. He's in a new league, new country, and playing under a slightly autistic manager. Lots of change there. I think he'll be much better next season, especially if we get a new manager. Mourinho would love him I'm sure.

Buttner was an absolute bag of shit. There's a reason all the posters here are disagreeing with you on that one, and there's a reason he's never even been capped for, possibly, the worst Netherlands team in history. He's quickish and can whip a good cross in once in a while. Other than that, he's completely hopeless: can't defend, can't head, can't dribble, and he's rash. Rojo might not have been worth the money, and I'm actually not really a fan of his, but he's a far superior player and defender to Alex fecking Buttner. Jesus.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Valencia gets a lot of stick from United fans but I don't think he's that bad. I would start him at RB over Darmian any day of the week.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

I can understand why Valencia splits opinion, it's easy to see his limitations and likewise for his strengths.

I'm surprised how people can not like him though, he's the epitamy of a no bullshit club player.

 

[Nighteyes]

Buttner was an absolute bag of shit. There's a reason all the posters here are disagreeing with you on that one, and there's a reason he's never even been capped for, possibly, the worst Netherlands team in history. He's quickish and can whip a good cross in once in a while. Other than that, he's completely hopeless: can't defend, can't head, can't dribble, and he's rash. Rojo might not have been worth the money, and I'm actually not really a fan of his, but he's a far superior player and defender to Alex fecking Buttner. Jesus.

Don't really care.

Rojo is absolutely shite at everything. At least Buttner knew he was shite and cost a pittance. Rojo think he's Messi with the ball the way he tries to pass it (to the opposition) while being tragically unfit 90% of the time. Not to mention the tragically terrible deal that brought him here in the first place.

 

[berbatrick]

Don't really care.

Rojo is absolutely shite at everything. At least Buttner knew he was shite and cost a pittance. Rojo think he's Messi with the ball the way he tries to pass it (to the opposition) while being tragically unfit 90% of the time. Not to mention the tragically terrible deal that brought him here in the first place.

 

[Norris]

I can understand why Valencia splits opinion, it's easy to see his limitations and likewise for his strengths.

I'm surprised how people can not like him though, he's the epitamy of a no bullshit club player.

Didn't you start a thread about wanting to learn new words and that's what you came up with ? Lols, just kidding

And we all like Valencia. He is a hard working footballer. Fans will always appreciate such players. ust kidding

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Didn't you start a thread about wanting to learn new words and that's what you came up with ? Lols, just kidding

And we all like Valencia. He is a hard working footballer. Fans will always appreciate such players. ust kidding

You see why I made the thread now!

 

[Lawman]

@Ijazz17 Your showing average per game. Bearing in mind how Darmian as started more games and Valencia has come of the bench in most games that skews the results quite severely.

Think that's lost on him!

 

[Lawman]

That's why I showed average per game. Coz showing the total numbers was useless and I am not quite sure how the 90 min metrics thing works. So Average is the best qualifier for such a comparison. I agree that Valencia has had most games as a sub. But by that point games are usually already won or lost. I just felt this was the best way to represent the numbers.

So you are agreeing on stats this season you're comparing apples and pears?

 

[dichinero]

The way I see Valencia is a failed winger converted to a poor/average RB BUT on the other hand he is a hardworking athlete with a good attitude.

 

[Norris]

So you are agreeing on stats this season you're comparing apples and pears?

Eh. I showed those stats to prove to you and Akash that Darmian is better defensively than you both seem to think. I never contested the fact that Valencia is better in attack compared to him. But your foundation for suggesting why Valencia should be ahead of Darmian predicated on the fact that Valencia keeps the ball well. As I showed in the second info-graph, that he does. But it seems to be all that he does. Coz if you look at other statistics like forward passes, pass completion rates, chances created, other attributes that show their attacking intent, those two players are not miles apart. To even my own surprise, there were a couple of stats, where Rojo was numerically better than both of them in an attacking sense. :|

Just goes to show you how poor that RB spot has been this season.

 

[Lawman]

Eh. I showed those stats to prove to you and Akash that Darmian is better defensively than you both seem to think. I never contested the fact that Valencia is better in attack compared to him. But your foundation for suggesting why Valencia should be ahead of Darmian predicated on the fact that Valencia keeps the ball well. As I showed in the second info-graph, that he does. But it seems to be all that he does. Coz if you look at other statistics like forward passes, pass completion rates, chances created, other attributes that show their attacking intent, those two players are not miles apart. To even my own surprise, there were a couple of stats, where Rojo was numerically better than both of them in an attacking sense. :|

Just goes to show you how poor that RB spot has been this season.

Valencia has had 9 appearances! He is visibly better regardless what the stats say. Darmain has been very poor and Rojo shockingly poor!

 

[Amar__]

Why on earth he doesn't want to score? Two great situations in two games and he REFUSES to even look for a goal, for me that kind of mentality is really bad. Cofidence issues or not, you need to at least try to score when you are in good situation.

 

[Red Stone]

Has to be the most technically limited player in the league. He has no control with his right foot and he has no left foot. He has half the technique of a regular bad player. Good thing he's strong, quick and runs around a lot.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He's been brilliant.

 

[Raw]

Have to say he's pretty underrated by our fans. He's pretty good!

 

[Woodzy]

Best i've seen him play for years!

 

[acnumber9]

Has to be the most technically limited player in the league. He has no control with his right foot and he has no left foot. He has half the technique of a regular bad player. Good thing he's strong, quick and runs around a lot.

You obviously don't watch a lot of the league. There's at least ten worse than him on the pitch tonight alone.

 

[Cutch]

Very good game from him tonight

 

[Lawman]

Has to be the most technically limited player in the league. He has no control with his right foot and he has no left foot. He has half the technique of a regular bad player. Good thing he's strong, quick and runs around a lot.

He has one of the best first touches at the club!

 

[Lawman]

Beast mode the difference with Him and Rojo or Darmain is stark

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

Very impressing tonight. We critize when players play bad, so we ought to do the opposite as well. Good game Tony.

 

[Rossa]

He has one of the best first touches at the club!

True, but far too often overlooked. Really good today.

 

[Norris]

Excellent attacking display. Was very direct with his dribbling, brought the ball forward numerous times, made lots of good runs which were met with good crisp passes. His floated crosses are still a little underwhelming. But a solid combo between him and Lingard on that right side. Something that's been pretty vacant for the season.

 

[anant]

I never thought I'd be writing an eight letter word for him starting with "Terri" and not being Terrible. VAlencia was Terrific. Best performance I've seen from him in years

 

[Owngoalscorer]

I thought it was one of the few times he seems to have enjoyed playing football since his injury and the death of his mate.. tonight he was back to his early days at united where he was running at people instead of looking for the first sideways or backwards pass possible. He has always had a good relationship with Rooney - and there were a few signs of that in both halves. Nice to see him back to his old self

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Was my man of the match.

 

[Van Piorsing]

It looked like United finally have some sort of wings.

It's a proper comeback after injury with that kind of performances. Well done.

 

[Devil may care]

Beasted up and down the right all evening.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

If you put Young on the right wing ahead of Lingard, the combo with Valencia could be quite good.