He better not be a starter for us next season.
Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances
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Valencia epitomises everything that is wrong with the current United team, and I would like us to move as far away from it as possible. Yes he works hard, but what else does he do? He's not creative, doesn't score goals, can't cross, one footed, predictable.
Lots of people are going over the top, he can still be usefull squad player to us, but what exactly do you expect that people will write about him after two horrible seasons?
All of Valencia, Young and Nani can have no complaints if they were to be chucked out come next season. Young should certainly be sold, he'd be the first guy out of the entire squad out on his arse. Valencia next, dependant on who we bring in, then Nani, who I still hold a grain of hope for. Whoever on the last page said that Valencia "can offer ten times more" than the other two is chatting total bullishit, for what it's worth. Not one of them is offering us anything for the time being.
I disagree that he's not good at holding on to the ball, he is currently one of our best players in doing that. Of course Ferguson had built a team (his last version of United from 2010 onwards) that could hit on the counter and attack the spaces behind the defense when the opponent had the ball in our half. We didn't have a ball winning DM, instead we used to drop very deep and force the other team to over commit players in the offense. In that style of play Valencia and Carrick were two of our most useful players on the pitch.
It's the dirty work that has to be done, win the loose balls in the middle of the pitch and regain possession, protect the ball and play it safe when you can't hit on the counter, work you backside off to cover the spaces and limit the number of possible passes the opponent has since there's no one able to close him down. How many players do we have in our squad doing those things?
But he's a winger he must score and give assists, one may say. Did Ferguson sign him to do that in the first place when Ronaldo left back in 2010? Is that what he saw in him? Probably not, since Valencia, during his four years at Wigan, never scored more than three goals in one season and in all competitions. Didn't SAF know that he is a one-footed player? He bought him to provide width when necessary and for all the aforementioned things. Last season, when Rafael was superb going forward, Valencia often moved in more central areas to provide cover and use his his speed to regain possession or chase down opponents. He was quite useful for us.
I know that his crossing has been woeful in the last couple of seasons but all the other forwards don't help him either. When we attempt crosses, most times we don't have more than 2 players in the box. None of our supposed left wingers (Nani, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, Young) can operate as inside forwards and make runs in the far post to receive the cross. They are all good on the ball, they like having the ball in the final third with enough free space (either wide or more central) and make things happen.
My point is that after a disastrous season the easiest thing is to find scapegoats and put the blame on them. We had no plan to attack, no plan to defend, no distinct football philosophy and playing style and most of our players underperformed. The new manager will assess the squad and decide which players are useful to him. The fact that we're appointing a manager who has a certain, non negotiable philosophy is the best thing that could happen to us right now. My guess is that he'll try to take the best out of Valencia's pace before he decides to offload him.
Plus we are already in search of a left back, two center backs and possibly two midfielders. I don't think we'll be looking to sign forwards and wingers before dealing with these matters. And Valencia's ability to play as a right back or right wing back and start his runs from deeper areas might come in handy for van Gaal's plans to create spaces.
It's the dirty work that has to be done, win the loose balls in the middle of the pitch and regain possession, protect the ball and play it safe when you can't hit on the counter, work you backside off to cover the spaces and limit the number of possible passes the opponent has since there's no one able to close him down. How many players do we have in our squad doing those things?
But he's a winger he must score and give assists, one may say. Did Ferguson sign him to do that in the first place when Ronaldo left back in 2010? Is that what he saw in him? Probably not, since Valencia, during his four years at Wigan, never scored more than three goals in one season and in all competitions. Didn't SAF know that he is a one-footed player? He bought him to provide width when necessary and for all the aforementioned things. Last season, when Rafael was superb going forward, Valencia often moved in more central areas to provide cover and use his his speed to regain possession or chase down opponents. He was quite useful for us.
I know that his crossing has been woeful in the last couple of seasons but all the other forwards don't help him either. When we attempt crosses, most times we don't have more than 2 players in the box. None of our supposed left wingers (Nani, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, Young) can operate as inside forwards and make runs in the far post to receive the cross. They are all good on the ball, they like having the ball in the final third with enough free space (either wide or more central) and make things happen.
My point is that after a disastrous season the easiest thing is to find scapegoats and put the blame on them. We had no plan to attack, no plan to defend, no distinct football philosophy and playing style and most of our players underperformed. The new manager will assess the squad and decide which players are useful to him. The fact that we're appointing a manager who has a certain, non negotiable philosophy is the best thing that could happen to us right now. My guess is that he'll try to take the best out of Valencia's pace before he decides to offload him.
Plus we are already in search of a left back, two center backs and possibly two midfielders. I don't think we'll be looking to sign forwards and wingers before dealing with these matters. And Valencia's ability to play as a right back or right wing back and start his runs from deeper areas might come in handy for van Gaal's plans to create spaces.
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He could be the second coming of Paulo Maldini defensively (He's more Paul McShane) and he should still be sold. For a United winger his performances have been embarrassing and this has been going on for 2 seasons now. It's a shame it has gotten to this because he was very good in the '11-12 season but in the last 2 seasons he's a disruptive influence when we attack and his defensive side is massively overrated.
Of the three 'senior' wingers, all things considered Valencia offers the most.
For all of Nani's ability, he's fragile physically and mentally. Young is garbage, I don't even need to beat around the bush when it comes to him.
Valencia can be incredibly frustrating when it comes to his final ball, but he allows us to stretch teams as he can carry the ball, he's still rapid and he's built like an Ox. This isn't me saying he's an amazing indispensable player but he's definitely got a place here ahead of the other two.
For all of Nani's ability, he's fragile physically and mentally. Young is garbage, I don't even need to beat around the bush when it comes to him.
Valencia can be incredibly frustrating when it comes to his final ball, but he allows us to stretch teams as he can carry the ball, he's still rapid and he's built like an Ox. This isn't me saying he's an amazing indispensable player but he's definitely got a place here ahead of the other two.
Completely agree. We fail to get enough players into the box to receive any crosses that do come in. Usually we're clearly outnumbered. Hopefully that'll change as soon as we start to push forward and close the gaps more and better next season. Even if Valencia continues playing the same as he does at the moment, he'll look much better with more targets to aim for. More targets inside also mean more space outside for his pace and his 1vs1s. I think LvG could and would use him in a useful way.
Is it worth trying to properly make him a right-back? Not just the odd game there when we're desperate, but to work on training him to develop right-back as his position?
If we are finally going to sort-out the central-midfield, or possibly switch to a narrower attacking formation, then the fullbacks providing width will become more of a priority. With a new midfield we should hopefully have a DM in there that can cover for Valencia if he gets caught forward (slowing down on the edge of the opposition box, squaring-up to the defender, teasing using his left-foot, and then blasting the ball at the defender with his right, as usual), would it be worth the gamble given we're not really getting much out of him as a winger anymore?
If we are finally going to sort-out the central-midfield, or possibly switch to a narrower attacking formation, then the fullbacks providing width will become more of a priority. With a new midfield we should hopefully have a DM in there that can cover for Valencia if he gets caught forward (slowing down on the edge of the opposition box, squaring-up to the defender, teasing using his left-foot, and then blasting the ball at the defender with his right, as usual), would it be worth the gamble given we're not really getting much out of him as a winger anymore?
Turn back Tony had 2 very dissapointing seasons. I hope LvG can make him his old self again.
The thing with Valencia is that he's done many things well whenever he plays for us:
He was so dangerous in the past due to the qualities I previously mentioned along with his dangerous crossing. Now that his crossing his gone, he is of no danger to opposition full backs since his crosses are rarely dangerous.
I hope that van Gaal notices his other qualities and makes the most out of them. Otherwise, Valencia is better off being a wing back than a right winger.
- He keeps possession well (when he's not aiming to cross the ball in)
- He links up with players very well
- His movement is good (he stretches the team when needed and then cuts in to make use of the space in the middle)
- He's a great support to attacking full backs (some of Rafael's best games have involved Valencia)
- He wins the ball well
- He makes good runs into the far post to score goals
He was so dangerous in the past due to the qualities I previously mentioned along with his dangerous crossing. Now that his crossing his gone, he is of no danger to opposition full backs since his crosses are rarely dangerous.
I hope that van Gaal notices his other qualities and makes the most out of them. Otherwise, Valencia is better off being a wing back than a right winger.
Ffs
He's going to be called this from now on isn't he?Ffs
It's perfect to be fair.
Turn Back (the hands of time) Tony
I wouldn't be averse to bringing him more central. He's combative and good with the ball in tight situations seen as his crossing ability seems to have completely evaporated. I think bringing him central could offer him a new lease of life.
Nonsense.
Why is it nonsense? He's played centrally for Ecuador and excelled. Thanks for offering well thought out objections though
I think he's just lost that bit of acceleration that made him so good. Bursting beyond the left back, putting in a cross. That was his job. Now we're forced to play in front of the opposition back 4 so often because he can't beat his man. When he does manage to squeeze out a cross it's either drilled so hard and low no one can get on the end of it or it loops into the keepers hands. I'd get rid of Young first, but there's no way he should be starting for us.
Should be converted to our full time back up RB. His attacking often looks better from there as he's allowed that extra two or three seconds to get up to full speed.
If we bring in somebody like Fabregas, Valencia will probably thrive again due to some passes put on a plate to him on the counter. Scholes did it all the time. Merely passing the ball out wide to him with the oppositions defenders in position is basically pointless, as he can't beat his man and he doesn't have the brains to do anything else.
I actually think as long as he sorts himself out defensively (since he had some howlers there last season) he can do a job as back up if Varela isn't ready and we don't sign back up for Rafa. I'd prefer him over Smalling. But making a one-two with whoever plays on the right wing is a better way to allow him in behind the defense, he just doesn't do it enough on his own right now, and considering Smalling offers so little going forward it's no wonder we look shit when the two of them are paired together.
Why is it nonsense? He's played centrally for Ecuador and excelled. Thanks for offering well thought out objections though
For Ecuador against South American fodder.
He's the absolute last person in our squad I would try centrally. One footed, no vision, no composure, barely plays with his head up and for all the talk of him being good defensively he's got poor discipline and gets caught out of position on a fairly regular basis.
We need a proper midfielder, not a shit winger.
Varela doesn't look ready to me and Valencia is shockingly bad in the air for a potential right-back. He should only be an option there against particular teams.
I don't agree with the first line at all.
I didn't say as a regular starter either. It's quite clear we need at least two central midfielders, players who are capable of coming straight into team.
However, if we are to start playing with 3 in midfield then we do need cover and I think he'd be good cover, far more suited to running at people from deep and centrally than out wide because like you said he's extremely one-footed and he does need to look up more but he's more than capable. He works hard and is capable of putting his foot in which are qualities we lack in the middle since Fletcher became ill and Fellaini being shite.
I didn't say as a regular starter either. It's quite clear we need at least two central midfielders, players who are capable of coming straight into team.
However, if we are to start playing with 3 in midfield then we do need cover and I think he'd be good cover, far more suited to running at people from deep and centrally than out wide because like you said he's extremely one-footed and he does need to look up more but he's more than capable. He works hard and is capable of putting his foot in which are qualities we lack in the middle since Fletcher became ill and Fellaini being shite.
Honestly I couldn't disagree more. Every attribute you'd want in a central midfielder is an attribute Valencia measures up poorly in.
I don't disagree with you that he has a lot of failings but the way I'm seeing it is that he wouldn't be an orthodox central midfielder, he'd just be more central. I'm not saying stick him in front of the back 4 and ask him to dictate play or anything of the sort. But I think he could be useful in a 3 and in a box-to-box role where he could run at players from a deep position rather than on the wing where full-backs can easily deal with him. Central players don't expect to get caught with people running at them.
I agree. I've always said Valencia has got the attributes to be a good centre midfielder. I reckon he could be a similar player to Ramires there.
Van Gaal transformed Schweinsteiger from a winger to one of the best box to box midfielders in the world. That's not to say Valencia would be world class, but like you said, I feel he could do a job there.
Energy wise perhaps, but that's about it. Ramires is a far more technical player than Valencia, it's not even a debate.
It would be a somewhat similar move to Schweinsteiger coming in, and Valencia's speed and power would be great assets in the middle, but not having a left-foot might be too much of a hurdle to overcome. Also, it seems like LVG has switched players' position at younger ages (Alaba, Badstuber).
It would be good to have a full list of the players LVG has shifted positions. I only know of those 3 listed in this post.
I think it's a debate. Ramires looks worse in terms of ball retention when playing out wide than Valencia. Maybe with the increased options that a central midfielder has, Valencia's short passing game would make him look technically more proficient than Ramires.
Valencia is one of the cleanest, most consistent short passes we have on the team. Hasn't shown the ability to hit runners in stride that you'd like from a CM, but he's not sloppy in his short passing like Young, Rooney, Smalling or multiple other United players.
Wonder what Van Gaal's plans for him are?
I give up.
Feck sake
So, Valencia is staying
This is going to end well.
Uhh, interesting.
LvG must rate him highly then. Would be funny to see the reaction here now.
If LVG agrees I have no qualms.
Valencia has been pretty good at the WC so far
Valencia has been pretty good at the WC so far
I just hope he's not going to be a starter. The thought of one more season of watching him play on the wing
This is perfect example of when a new thread should be made, and it has been made so go post in that one.
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