Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances

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Cina said:
Well the other reason is that France have worn them down all game and once Ecuador went down to ten men they were doomed. They look knackered.

But hey, I once jokingly suggested using Valencia as a defensive midfielder, maybe I was actually on to something?
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Maybe you were. Stranger things have happened. Like I said, Van Gaal must have something in mind and Valencia's last couple of seasons haven't made a great case for him getting games because of his creativity!

Despite all the bile in this thread, he does have a lot of other qualities though. Which Van Gaal is obviously aware of.
 
acnumber9 said:
Couldn't afford to miss the opportunity. You'd think people here are glad he's got sent off. A player who works as hard as he does and has done nothing to question his integrity really shouldn't have such shite flung in his direction.
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Well there is that. The Internet brings out all sorts of people in search of their 15 seconds.
 
It was bad tackle but not intentionally so yellow card would be the right one. Even comentator on Slovenian TV said t was harsh decision and they used to agree with everything that referee blows.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's wee bit surprising. He hates dangerous tackles. Plus he's French, obviously!

Interesting though. I guess the "brainless wanker" stuff from our resident geniuses might be wide of the mark. No great surprise.
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Hmm, probably part of the anti-Rooney brigade.
Also Lizarazu is part of the commentary team, and they rate him very highly
Note they thought Digne should have been booked a few minutes ago
 
Pogue's opinions on Nani and Valencia are ridiculous to compare. When Nani used the ball quite well in first Portugal's game and played almost like a midfielder with being more dangerous than Valencia was tonight, even with his team being man down, and even though many said he was probably thwir best player, Pogue described it as shit performance. Valencia puts average performance doing nothing special whole game, Pogue describes it as good performance. I agree with him on many things, but his opinions on Nani, Valencia and Rooney are best ignored.

And here is me again mentioning Nani in Valencia thread, and vice versa, I should stop doing it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Maybe you were. Stranger things have happened. Like I said, Van Gaal must have something in mind and Valencia's last couple of seasons haven't made a great case for him getting games because of his creativity!

Despite all the bile in this thread, he does have a lot of other qualities though. Which Van Gaal is obviously aware of.
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Yes, and I do see why he got a new contract. He was always the most likely of our the underperforming wingers to get one, because even though he's been pretty miserable as a Utd winger lately, he does have other qualities that make him useful.

It actually made a lot of sense to me once I saw the guile and grit in that Dutch team. Valencia would fit right into it.
 
Raoul said:
Well there is that. The Internet brings out all sorts of people in search of their 15 seconds.
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OR, and I accept I could be wrong, it could just be people innocently talking about football and having different opinions on it and having different ways of expressing those opinions.

I am sure nobody thinks that Valencia is actually a brainless wanker, I'm sure none of us actually believe Suarez is a cannibal, just a complete twat, but we say it.
 
Amar__ said:
Pogue's opinions on Nani and Valencia are ridiculous to compare. When Nani used the ball quite well in first Portugal's game and played almost like a midfielder with being more dangerous than Valencia was tonight, even with his team being man down, and even though many said he was probably thwir best player, Pogue described it as shit performance. Valencia puts average performance doing nothing special whole game, Pogue describes it as good performance. I agree with him on many things, but his opinions on Nani, Valencia and Rooney are best ignored.

And here is me again mentioning Nani in Valencia thread, and vice versa, I should stop doing it.
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I never realized he was extremely biased due to it and kept taking his opinions seriously in the Nani or Kagawa thread. He should stick to supporting United's players by posting only/mainly in the Valencia thread rather than trying to bash the other players so Valencia looks good in comparison.
 
Ducklegs said:
OR, and I accept I could be wrong, it could just be people innocently talking about football and having different opinions on it and having different ways of expressing those opinions.

I am sure nobody thinks that Valencia is actually a brainless wanker, I'm sure none of us actually believe Suarez is a cannibal, just a complete twat, but we say it.
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Sure in some cases that may be true. In others, its the usual suspects just trying to be provocative.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I never realized he was extremely biased due to it and kept taking his opinions seriously in the Nani or Kagawa thread. He should stick to supporting United's players by posting only/mainly in the Valencia thread rather than trying to bash the other players so Valencia looks good in comparison.
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It's quite easy to notice.
 
Amar__ said:
Pogue's opinions on Nani and Valencia are ridiculous to compare. When Nani used the ball quite well in first Portugal's game and played almost like a midfielder with being more dangerous than Valencia was tonight, even with his team being man down, and even though many said he was probably thwir best player, Pogue described it as shit performance. Valencia puts average performance doing nothing special whole game, Pogue describes it as good performance. I agree with him on many things, but his opinions on Nani, Valencia and Rooney are best ignored.

And here is me again mentioning Nani in Valencia thread, and vice versa, I should stop doing it.
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Yeah, you really should.

It is possible for people to have different opinions about players, you know? Different people will rank different qualities higher or lower depending on what they like to see on a football pitch.

Personally, I really like intelligent footballers. Players who know where they should be at any given moment, who consistently pick the right pass, delivers it accurately and brings the most out of others around them. Ideally, at both ends of the pitch. They track their runners and fill in gaps at the back, then make the right decisions whenever we win back possession.

Flicks and tricks don't do much for me. Not unless they come from someone who is also getting all the other stuff right. If not, they're an irritating indulgence.

Obviously, I enjoy skill and flair but much much more as part of the whole package. I could watch James Rodriguez all day, for example. And not just because he's pretty.

That's just me though. Other opinions are available.
 
:lol: Don't try and put me in with the anti-Valencia brigade, it was a reaction of exasperation at a player who used to be one of our best, most consistent and exciting players to watch that is now no more than a shadow of his former self and doesn't stand out in or proper lead a fairly average Ecuador side.

And his football brain has certainly declined with his form and confidence in the last couple of seasons, whereas he was a quick, clever and often instinctive winger who made the right decision almost all over the pitch, he now looks very cumbersome, scared to run at defenders he can physically overpower and makes the wrong choice on the ball in the final third. Even his usual hardworking defensive work has declined.

At least van Gaal is the type of manager who can inspire confidence and leadership in players, something that Valencia sorely lacks these days.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, you really should.

It is possible for people to have different opinions about players, you know? Different people will rank different qualities higher or lower depending on what they like to see on a football pitch.

Personally, I really like intelligent footballers. Players who know where they should be at any given moment, who consistently pick the right pass and bring the most out of others around them. Ideally, at both ends of the pitch. They track their runners and fill in gaps at the back, then make the right decisions whenever we win back possession.

Flicks and tricks don't do much for me. Not unless they come from someone who is also getting all the other stuff right. If not, they're an irritating indulgence.

That's just me though. Other opinions are available.
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It has nothing to do their style of play, I wouldn't blame you for that. You're simply biased. Kagawa is one of the most intelligent players in our squad, and Valencia is typical stupid winger who shows nothing intelligent in his game, and you like Valencia more than Kagawa. I mean, the guy is literally kicking the ball into defenders legs for two years and you think he is an intelligent footballer? And those things you are describing aren't signs of intelligent player, but disciplined one.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Never a red for me. Digne slides in and knocks the ball under Valencia foot. That made him tread on the ball and slip, causing him to tread on digne by accident. Ok sure the ref doesn't get the slow mo replay, but calling him an idiot is very very unfair.
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Agree with this.
 
Ducklegs said:
OR, and I accept I could be wrong, it could just be people innocently talking about football and having different opinions on it and having different ways of expressing those opinions.

I am sure nobody thinks that Valencia is actually a brainless wanker, I'm sure none of us actually believe Suarez is a cannibal, just a complete twat, but we say it.
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After yesterday, I'm sure that is a questionable statement
 
Amar__ said:
It has nothing to do their style of play, I wouldn't blame you for that. You're simply biased. Kagawa is one of the most intelligent players in our squad, and Valencia is typical stupid winger who shows nothing intelligent in his game, and you like Valencia more than Kagawa. I mean, the guy is literally kicking the ball into defenders legs for two years and you think he is an intelligent footballer? And those things you are describing aren't signs of intelligent player, but disciplined one.
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Utter nonsense.

By the way, Kagawa annoys me because he's a bit of a pussy. Should have mentioned that on stuff I do/don't like. Lacks heart more than anything else, from what I can see. That and all the fanbois bigging him up as the Japanese Messi. Hard not to react against fanatacism like that.

I'll leave it here here because we're evidently miles apart on our opinions about football.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Utter nonsense.

By the way, Kagawa annoys me because he's a bit of a pussy. Should have mentioned that on stuff I do/don't like. Lacks heart more than anything else, from what I can see. That and all the fanbois bigging him up as the Japanese Messi. Hard not to react against fanatacism like that.

I'll leave it here here because we're evidently miles apart on our opinions about football.
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Why would it bother you if people rate a certain United player? Personally I am stoked there are still a few people supporting Valencia, every player deserves some who rates him. I am rarely in the Valencia thread as I have said my opinion on him before and until he does positive stuff it is better if I am quiet as my opinion won't have changed. But you seem to be more on a war path with the rare few people who actually still rate Kagawa and think Nani is better than Young and Valencia.

You are one of the posters who posts more in the Kagawa/Nani thread and it is nonstop bashing for no reason at all and your opinion as a poster which is generally very high is deluded due to the nonstop bashing. You've stated your opinion on Nani and Kagawa, until they actually do stuff you consider positive - we will all know where you stand on the topic.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Why would it bother you if people rate a certain United player? Personally I am stoked there are still a few people supporting Valencia, every player deserves some who rates him. I am rarely in the Valencia thread as I have said my opinion on him before and until he does positive stuff it is better if I am quiet as my opinion won't have changed. But you seem to be more on a war path with the rare few people who actually still rate Kagawa and think Nani is better than Young and Valencia.

You are one of the posters who posts more in the Kagawa/Nani thread and it is nonstop bashing for no reason at all and your opinion as a poster which is generally very high is deluded due to the nonstop bashing. You've stated your opinion on Nani and Kagawa, until they actually do stuff you consider positive - we will all know where you stand on the topic.
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Basically, I enjoy a debate.
 
I think that the Valencia dismissal was ironically similar to the one Sterling got sent off for in the warm up game. Both players got a touch on the ball (if I remember correctly) but both were dangerous and neither player was in control. Nothing malicious in either, but both a red.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Utter nonsense.

By the way, Kagawa annoys me because he's a bit of a pussy. Should have mentioned that on stuff I do/don't like. Lacks heart more than anything else, from what I can see. That and all the fanbois bigging him up as the Japanese Messi. Hard not to react against fanatacism like that.

I'll leave it here here because we're evidently miles apart on our opinions about football.
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Mentioning Valencia as an example of intelligent player is the biggest nonsense.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Basically, I enjoy a debate.
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I am sure you do, that explains why you have the desire to post but nobody enjoys debating Kagawa/Nani with you when you have such extreme opinions on them which you keep repeating. After every game Nani/Kagawa plays you enter the thread claiming they were shit and worthless and you try to start a "debate".

You have over 200 posts in the Kagawa thread, repeating how shit the United player is and how he doesn't deserve to play, while you have 50 posts in this thread. So your idea of supporting United is bashing the players you don't like in to infinity instead of spending time giving a player like Valencia support who needs all he can get.

I can only talk for me, but "fans" like that are just negative for the group of United fans anyhow. It is the most spoiled type of fans who focus their hate on individual players instead of trying to support whoever deserves support.
 
Amar__ said:
It has nothing to do their style of play, I wouldn't blame you for that. You're simply biased. Kagawa is one of the most intelligent players in our squad, and Valencia is typical stupid winger who shows nothing intelligent in his game, and you like Valencia more than Kagawa. I mean, the guy is literally kicking the ball into defenders legs for two years and you think he is an intelligent footballer? And those things you are describing aren't signs of intelligent player, but disciplined one.
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Valencia is not an intelligent footballer, he's not thick but he is definitely not United quality in terms of intelligence.

Kagawa is intelligent, but I've lost faith in him - he doesn't have the balls or the physicality to hack it at United.

Should've got rid of both.

I think LVG will have a massive clear out next season although he probably backs himself to get the most out of the current lot, which if he does manage to do, fair play to him.
 
Milner can play a role well for City, it doesn't mean he's an intelligent footballer though. Valencia is disciplined alright, but I would hardly call him intelligent.
 
The concept of intelligent footballers is a bit strange. How many members of our current squad would be considered intelligent ? Not too many based on last years form i'd bet.
 
Raees said:
Valencia is not an intelligent footballer, he's not thick but he is definitely not United quality in terms of intelligence.

Kagawa is intelligent, but I've lost faith in him - he doesn't have the balls or the physicality to hack it at United.

Should've got rid of both.

I think LVG will have a massive clear out next season although he probably backs himself to get the most out of the current lot, which if he does manage to do, fair play to him.
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I have no doubt about this. LVG has always made big clear outs for the clubs he has joined but he does take great pride in getting the best of the players available to him. He won't sell any player until he has decided which formation he will play and have given everybody a chance to convert themselves to suit the roles available.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Personally I think he put in his usual performance, he plays like a pretty good full-back when his own team has the ball and defends like a really shitty full-back when he doesn't have the ball. If he just stepped his defense up he'd be a great back-up for Rafael who is inevitably going to get injured.
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Excellent description of Valencia.
I can see that he’s often used in midfield for Ecuador which is quite surprising for me.
He was quite anonymous today, but this red card decision was harsh.
I wonder how he will be used in van Gaal’s system. He doesn’t strike me as a player intelligent enough to play anywhere else than right wing for us, therefore I seriously hope he won’t be a starter.
 
Raoul said:
The concept of intelligent footballers is a bit strange. How many members of our current squad would be considered intelligent ? Not too many based on last years form i'd bet.
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Rooney, RVP, Carrick and Evra are among the few intelligent players in our squad. They mostly know what to do with the ball when they receive it, they have a football brain.

Valencia runs into brick walls constantly, sometimes you'd swear he forgets he's on a pitch to play football.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I have no doubt about this. LVG has always made big clear outs for the clubs he has joined but he does take great pride in getting the best of the players available to him. He won't sell any player until he has decided which formation he will play and have given everybody a chance to convert themselves to suit the roles available.
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I'd imagine he likes Valencia, who performed quite well against his Bayern side back in 2010.

 
Raoul said:
The concept of intelligent footballers is a bit strange. How many members of our current squad would be considered intelligent ? Not too many based on last years form i'd bet.
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Well Rooney for example - for all his faults is incredibly intelligent on a football pitch, just a shame he doesn't have the same mobility he once did, hence why I think he's a hindrance more than an asset for both club and country these days.
 
Shark said:
Rooney, RVP, Carrick and Evra are among the few intelligent players in our squad. They mostly know what to do with the ball when they receive it, they have a football brain.

Valencia runs into brick walls constantly, sometimes you'd swear he forgets he's on a pitch to play football.
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I agree that Tony V has underperformed lately, but last year was pretty much a wash for all our players. I reckon LvG will get more out of several of our players than Moyes did; with Valencia being one of them, as indicated by the new contract.
 
Raees said:
Valencia is not an intelligent footballer, he's not thick but he is definitely not United quality in terms of intelligence.

Kagawa is intelligent, but I've lost faith in him - he doesn't have the balls or the physicality to hack it at United.

Should've got rid of both.

I think LVG will have a massive clear out next season although he probably backs himself to get the most out of the current lot, which if he does manage to do, fair play to him.
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That's pretty much my opinion too on both players, nut I would keep Kagawa for one more season under van Gaal.


Raoul said:
What exactly is your point ?
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That Pogue opinion on Valencia is too biased, as I said in my previous posts.
 
Don't know who mentioned the defensive mid role, but the more I think about it.. the more plausible it becomes. It is a role where his one-footedness wouldn't be an issue, it involves no crossing, no creativity. Just win the ball and play it simple, it is worth a try.
 
Just seen a replay of his tackle and it looks a definite red card to me.
 
He's regressed into a nothing player, and over the past year has developed a reckless and violent edge. He is a very fragile player with no confidence at the moment, and I feel for him, because he was once a brutally effective player for us, but those days will never return, of that I am 100% certain. Hopefully he is only used next season as a last resort.
 
Raees said:
Don't know who mentioned the defensive mid role, but the more I think about it.. the more plausible it becomes. It is a role where his one-footedness wouldn't be an issue, it involves no crossing, no creativity. Just win the ball and play it simple, it is worth a try.
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He certainly has the energy required. The only issue is I'm not sure there is such a place in having such a limites player in midfield. I guess it's worth a try but I find it hard to envisage on a medium to long term basis.
 
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