I like a bit of cynicism, but I think Martial just does best when he's the main man, and doesn't like being a bench player. His best stuff has been under LVG, where the team play safe but he was given full license to dribble, and Ole's first full season when he was the main man at number 9. I also don't think he's even particularly close to the French squad is he, let alone the starting XI? Even if he hits incredible form for the next few months, he's currently behind Mbappe, Griezmann, Benzema, Giroud, Coman, plus a ridiculous number of forward options like Gouiri, Nkunku, Diaby, Cherki, Thuram, Lacazette, O.Dembele, M.Dembele, Ben Yedder, Saint Maximin plus whoever else I forgot. He just needs to focus on United, and international call ups will follow if he does well.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Goals
- 9
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 0
- Status
I like a bit of cynicism, but I think Martial just does best when he's the main man, and doesn't like being a bench player. His best stuff has been under LVG, where the team play safe but he was given full license to dribble, and Ole's first full season when he was the main man at number 9. I also don't think he's even particularly close to the French squad is he, let alone the starting XI? Even if he hits incredible form for the next few months, he's currently behind Mbappe, Griezmann, Benzema, Giroud, Coman, plus a ridiculous number of forward options like Gouiri, Nkunku, Diaby, Cherki, Thuram, Lacazette, O.Dembele, M.Dembele, Ben Yedder, Saint Maximin plus whoever else I forgot. He just needs to focus on United, and international call ups will follow if he does well.
Indeed. I think he is also gets the best out of Rashford and Sancho. I don't think it's a coincidence Rashford's best stuff has tended to be when he's played together with Martial (LVG's second season, Ole's first year and a half, and although briefly, the start of this season). Rashford's poor spells seem to have coincided with Zlatan, Lukaku, Cavani, Mason and Ronaldo in the team. Martial unlike the others can turn, draw defenders in and thread balls into space for Rashford.
This isn't true. Jose actually favoured Rashford over Martial and both players had an amazing start to the season. Martial especially scoring or assisting when he came off the bench. This thing is also a bit of an exaggeration because the so called competition were high profile names. There was no competition and they were going to start every game. No one was "competing" with Ronaldo or Ibra. It wasn't a competition situation, he was effectively replaced.
Martial was evidently not happy sharing the LW role with Rashford, his body language, demeanour and work rate showed that. It was worsened with the signing of Sanchez. And yes, he wasn't even in competition with Ronaldo, Zlatan or Lukaku as the number 9, and it showed in his performances and attitude. Not saying he was bad under Jose, but his best seasons were under LVG and Ole's first full season. He was visibly annoyed when being subbed for Cavani, and very sulky sitting on the bench after Ronaldo joined, hence pushing for a loan despite Rangnick wanting him to stay.
He's offering so much more to the team than Ronaldo in that forward role. Long may it continue. He's a quality player when he's happy and is putting in the effort
I think one of us is misremembering because Martial when he competed for the left with Rashford was the best Martial we had seen in years. He, Rashford and Lukaku meshed so well when either 2 or all 3 were on. People wanted one of them played on the right just to have all 3 on the pitch at the same time. In fact now that i recall, that one season competing with Rashford should kill this thing. Both players were that good against the competition of the other. That was maybe the last true meritous competition situation we've had since SAF left. The rest are manager favourite/preference situations. Even that was ruined by Jose stupidly signing Sanchez, so typical that he'd poison the one healthy competition with another unwarranted favourite.
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This point should also dispute the ridiculous narrative that he shirks from competition. Jose fancied Rashford on the left but Martial displaced him. The next season he did the same with Sanchez.
I think some fans just don't like his languid style so they make shit up and parrot it off one another.
I recall it differently. The competition seemed to spur each other on initially, but not for long. I recall on the occasions Martial got a start, him slumping off the pitch looking pissed off when inevitably subbed after 60 minutes. The calls for Rashford - Lukaku - Martial to all start together were due to frustrations with our RW options or lack thereof, and the lack of opportunities for our two most promising young forward options. Martial also voiced his desire to play as a 9, and Jose criticised his defensive work as a LW, called him immature and mentality weak, and requested the club sell him, identifying Sanchez and then Perisic to replace him. He was also not selected for most big games.
He got 4 league goals in Jose's first season. Better the next with 9, but not many important goals (scoring the 4th in a 4-0 victory etc). He was evidently better under LVG and during Ole's first full season. Stats alone, as you bring them up, he scored 11 league goals under LVG (from the wing, as a 19 year old) and 17 league goals in Ole's first full season). His best return by a mile. Its really not a debate.
Yes, I have followed the conversation. I replied and agreed with the other guy that Martial showed good form when having to compete for his position with Rashford. I also included the fact the he did the same the next season when competing with Sanchez.Have you even followed the conversation!?
His form at the time probably kept Jose in his job for a few weeks longer than he deserved.
I'm not really sure what you're laughing at?
You seemed to be suggesting I don't like his languid style, which is what I was laughing at, as I haven't made a single critical comment of Martial.
Both of you have weird recollections. Jose and Martial were slagging each other off and have continued to do so in recent years Jose wanted the club to sell him, and he scored and assisted much less than in his two best seasons - one under LVG and one under Ole. I really don't get what is disputable here. Martial was good under Jose, but better under LVG and Ole's first full season, nobody is saying he was bad under Jose ffs. He was also frustrated when Cavani was added to the mix, and pushed for a move in January after the Ronaldo signing (despite us also losing Mason and Donny that window, Cavani being injured and Rashford horribly out of form). He's evidently, like any footballer, better when he has the full backing of his manager. Especially a footballer in the prime years of his career which he is now.
The entire thing is disputable. The whole Martial under Jose thing is so off. You seem to remember him being a disaster but that is sooo narrative based. That's why that poster thinks you're basing all of this on body language. He had a bad first season under Jose and was never his cup of tea but their working relationship was never bad and it's why Martial was still producing through the period that got him sacked. He never actually stopped trying. If this is based on body language then I can give you Martial's body language or effort has always been lacking but only because he's a naturally lazy player under anyone, even on form.
Jose didn't even want to move him because of a bad relationship, it was the Perisic swap he wanted. They barely even slag each other, it's their fans doing the talking. Everything is slightly off. Even his transfer request for example, not that this changes your overall point but he pushed for a move in December before any of the Greenwood stuff. At the time Rashford was still featuring and hadn't shown disastrous form and Ronaldo was a firm starter. Cavani's injury as well, he hadn't started taking the piss as a semi-retired footballer.
Anyway even though I don't think so I'm just going to leave it on the offchance I'm actually the one miscollecting.
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Even the conversation between himself and Erik on the line as he was waiting to come on gave me positive vibes. Possibly a reflection of how far things had sunk with him but I'll take anything I can get my hands on at the moment.
His hold up and link up play is very very good.. along with his finishing, pace and dribbling he’s the perfect striker for ETH. Exciting times for him.
I have said the exact opposite numerous times. You are impossible to converse with. Reread the thread.
You're a clown. Maybe read that post till the end, I even tried to conclude politely and give you the benefit of the doubt. If everyone is misunderstanding you maybe you're not very good at articulating your thoughts. You say he wasn't a disaster then proceed to describe features of a disaster. Crumbling under competition is a contentious assertion. You don't even back it up with proper instances, you just repeat nonsense about body language and think you're making a coherent point.
Yep his ability to take the ball under pressure and use his strength and pace to drive the team forward is what Ronaldo doesn’t have.
I hope it the case because it means he will return more likely injury free after the World Cup.
You remember incorrectly.
Him performing well with a character as big as Ronaldo lurking on the bench bodes well.
I don't know if he's ever going to be a very high scoring number 9 individually, but the attack scores more with him about.
I don't know if he's ever going to be a very high scoring number 9 individually, but the attack scores more with him about.
I'm a clown eh? I'm not accusing him of being a disaster AT ALL. In any way, shape or form. At all. As you refuse to re-read the thread, let me summarise my position in bold for you:
Martial's best two seasons were under LVG, and Ole's first full season.
You then bizarrely chimed in by suggesting he was better when he wasn't in favour, and more productive in seasons where he scored less goals. What more do you want? He played more, in his preferred position, scored more frequently, assisted more frequently, looked happier, didn't push for a mid season loan to Sevilla despite us lacking forward options, and wasn't trying to be sold by Jose.
The sheer arrogance to call someone a clown in this context. Remarkable. RE READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD BEFORE REPLYING AGAIN.
Jesus christ what the actual flying feck is happening in this thread??
Which bit do I remember incorrectly? Martial scoring 4 league goals in a season under Jose? I better look that one up. Scoring 11 and 17 league goals in the two seasons I'm referring to as his best seasons? Being left out of big games in ALL seasons other than his two best seasons? Falling out with Jose?There's no way anyone could really determine how much competition affects him. He has performed well under competition before and has also performed poorly under it. He has competition this year anyway, he's literally competing with the guy who scored 24 goals last season and is worshipped by the fans regardless of what he does. It doesn't get any more difficult than that, let's see how it goes this time.
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Would imagine he'll start vs Southampton. Could really do with a goal from him in it. We need to get 6 points from Southampton/Leicester.
I genuinely think that his first touch with back to goal is the best in the world.
The way he just brings the ball down at any speed is beautiful to watch.
He seems a very specialist at what he does.
The way he just brings the ball down at any speed is beautiful to watch.
He seems a very specialist at what he does.
Martial comfortably won the LW role over Rashford and was easily our best attacker, if not player, until Sanchez was signed and he was shunted to the right and then quickly dropped.I'm a clown eh? I'm not accusing him of being a disaster AT ALL. In any way, shape or form. At all. As you refuse to re-read the thread, let me summarise my position in bold for you:
Martial's best two seasons were under LVG, and Ole's first full season.
You then bizarrely chimed in by suggesting he was better when he wasn't in favour, and more productive in seasons where he scored less goals. What more do you want? He played more, in his preferred position, scored more frequently, assisted more frequently, looked happier, didn't push for a mid season loan to Sevilla despite us lacking forward options, and wasn't trying to be sold by Jose.
The sheer arrogance to call someone a clown in this context. Remarkable. RE READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD BEFORE REPLYING AGAIN.
Jesus christ what the actual flying feck is happening in this thread??
Noticed that too. While he was getting instructions from the assistant he was smiling, visibly happy at the moment.
I so want Martial to keep up his re-found form, when he is playing well he is an absolute joy to watch and adds so much to our overall play. If he puts in the hard work, he can be a brilliant player for us in this team for ETH.
And his interaction with the fans and the little moment he had with the ball boy. He looks happy and motivated, which is usually an excellent thing for us.
Ah remember that too. That was great, he was making a hand gesture take your time.
It is beautiful to watch.
He is also strong as an ox, considering he is not the biggest of strikers it almost looks like a magic trick when he holds off players like Van Dijk.
He was a fantastic dribbler because he kept the ball so close to his feet.
Once he gets his confidence, I’m sure we’ll see more of it again
I felt he had lost his balance a bit in Ole's last season. Had also noticed he had bulked-up a bit that year, wonder if it's related.
Whilst strenght-conditioning is important, for some players weight-training seems to put them off their natural game and reduces their agility.
Martial please please have Bemzema-style evolution into the talisman we know you can be and please for the love of all that is Holy, stay fit. This team needs you. Bruno especially needs you.
I don't think he's anywhere near as high maintenance as people think. He was Mourinho's best performer when shit hit the pan and Mourinho never liked him. The fact is though, you just can't keep fecking people around and still expect them to engage with you.
Ten Hag from the off has seemed to try and develop a relationship with all his players. Not one of a strict drill sargeant, but more of someone who engages his players. You can see it the way he talks to them individually.
I wasn't suggesting YOU don't like his languid style. I said "some posters." Once again: I was replying to the other guy (not yourself).
We may have different recollections/opinions but I still think he showed good form when he had to compete for his place. Eg displacing Rashford and Sanchez in successive seasons.
I never said he showed his BEST form for Jose and never disagreed with you saying he was better for Ole/LVG. I also never said that YOU were critical of him. Not entirely sure what we're arguing about here. Apologies if I may have misread some of your previous posts.
I really want him to have a Gabriel Jesus resurgence and feel like they actually are quite similar players. He's been brilliant for Arsenal.
Ah fck, don't really want to come back to this. Alright then friend, good talk. You may be right. Look forward to our next interaction. Thoroughly enjoyed this one.I'm a clown eh? I'm not accusing him of being a disaster AT ALL. In any way, shape or form. At all. As you refuse to re-read the thread, let me summarise my position in bold for you:
Martial's best two seasons were under LVG, and Ole's first full season.
You then bizarrely chimed in by suggesting he was better when he wasn't in favour, and more productive in seasons where he scored less goals. What more do you want? He played more, in his preferred position, scored more frequently, assisted more frequently, looked happier, didn't push for a mid season loan to Sevilla despite us lacking forward options, and wasn't trying to be sold by Jose.
The sheer arrogance to call someone a clown in this context. Remarkable. RE READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD BEFORE REPLYING AGAIN.
Jesus christ what the actual flying feck is happening in this thread??
I said it before the game and throughout the whole time he was out of favour with some of our previous managers; All of our best football in recent years has come with Martial in the team. He makes such a difference in terms of linking up play and holding up the ball, he's just about the only attacking player we have capable of keeping hold of the ball under pressure. I genuinely believe we wouldn't of taken such a battering in our first two games had he been playing. That may sound silly to some seeing as Martial is a forward player but because he's a great out ball and keeps possession it leads to taking pressure off our midfield/defence. It also leads to fewer counters against us where often our midfield is completely bypassed after sudden breakdown of our attack....purely because Martial will typically keep hold of the ball or find a team mate where our other attackers lose the ball. He's not a bad finisher as well!
People forget how good this guy is. If he can only stay fit he will be an integral part of this team.
People forget how good this guy is. If he can only stay fit he will be an integral part of this team.
People put too much stock into his attitude, fitness, etc. As is the case with any player when they drop or gain form there are multiple things that contribute to that form increasing or decreasing.
LVG: Martial played as a left forward, not as a left winger as under Jose but a left forward. This combined with LVG's tactics which meant a lot of the time we had possession and were camped in the oppositions half, all Martial had to focus on was the last third, getting into good spaces and scoring. He wasn't picking the ball up from inside his own half and having to run and beat 2 players, instead he was moving between the left forward channel and the penalty box, linking up play in a possession system and often receiving the ball in or near the box. This was easily his second best season for us.
Jose: Under Jose he mostly played as a left winger, completely different profile to a left forward. Now he had to track back, spend a lot of time in a low block, often picking the ball up in his half or on the wing, playing further away from goal which he can do but its not really making the most out of him, you want Martial almost in that Henry position where he is picking up the ball with one defender to beat and then finishing. No surprise he struggled in this role.
Ole: His best season under Ole came playing as 9, but not a conventional 9. He was almost a mix between a false 9 and a traditional 9. The amount of times we pinged the ball to him and under pressure he controlled it, held of the center back, passed to a Bruno etc and kick started a counter due to the space left by the CB challenging him was crazy. It's no coincidence that he had his best season in this role, it took advantage of all his strengths, it's also no coincidence that Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno all had their best seasons as well. Martial was the glue that held the attack together, in a similar vein to a prime Firmino, Benzema.
So under EtH, playing as a 9 in a possession based system I think its more likely he flourishes than flops.
LVG: Martial played as a left forward, not as a left winger as under Jose but a left forward. This combined with LVG's tactics which meant a lot of the time we had possession and were camped in the oppositions half, all Martial had to focus on was the last third, getting into good spaces and scoring. He wasn't picking the ball up from inside his own half and having to run and beat 2 players, instead he was moving between the left forward channel and the penalty box, linking up play in a possession system and often receiving the ball in or near the box. This was easily his second best season for us.
Jose: Under Jose he mostly played as a left winger, completely different profile to a left forward. Now he had to track back, spend a lot of time in a low block, often picking the ball up in his half or on the wing, playing further away from goal which he can do but its not really making the most out of him, you want Martial almost in that Henry position where he is picking up the ball with one defender to beat and then finishing. No surprise he struggled in this role.
Ole: His best season under Ole came playing as 9, but not a conventional 9. He was almost a mix between a false 9 and a traditional 9. The amount of times we pinged the ball to him and under pressure he controlled it, held of the center back, passed to a Bruno etc and kick started a counter due to the space left by the CB challenging him was crazy. It's no coincidence that he had his best season in this role, it took advantage of all his strengths, it's also no coincidence that Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno all had their best seasons as well. Martial was the glue that held the attack together, in a similar vein to a prime Firmino, Benzema.
So under EtH, playing as a 9 in a possession based system I think its more likely he flourishes than flops.
He looks just as physically strong now and he cannot do the traditional center forward work without that strength.
Yep that was a very good contest between the 2 of them, they both looked extremely hungry at the time.
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