I could run classes for a fee….
9
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Again, you're beating around the bush. This 'just asking questions' rhetorical device is a great way of veiling accusations.
Could it be that the reason Martial gets called lazy is because, again, he doesn't press, doesn't run in behind and generally appears unarsed? Given his last few seasons, what about his performances make you think that he's turned a corner and is worth sticking with?
Edit: also, Ronaldo is, what, ten years older than Tony? Do you think that's a valid comparison?
So I can't pass comment on Martial barely celebrating a winner but you're ok to pass comment on posters unconscious motivations? Alrighty then.
Sure thing.
I think it’s called an opinion and I’ve already said ‘some’. You have no idea where other peoples opinions are based on other than your own. Never sure why people get so defensive about discussions like this, like they don’t exist. It could be all or none of those reasons why people have that opinion, I just wonder many black players and others think those labels are attributed to them and not others? I’m not talking about his ability as a player, but one mentions his dribbling ability or his shooting or whether he is composed in front of goal, just he’s lazy.
It might be me but I have heard at this club Pogs, Tony and Rom called it, yet it’s not attributed to others in the same way. Shaw isn’t lazy, he’s unfit. Scott isn’t lazy, he goes missing. Maybe I’ve missed it, who else gets called lazy?
Like said, maybe it’s just me…..
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You can pass comment on whatever, just didn’t agree with it….
Passion, passion, passion......who cares about skill. Give me full squad of Daniel James and Scott McTominay.
Or skill and passion. How about that?
Passion is a bonus. And yes, i like also to see reactions like Cavani's when we scored. But skill wins you games. While players are doing their job on the pitch i don't care is he celebrating like crazy or not.
Fyi, Ronaldo celebrated less that goal than Martial for example. He is not bothered too? If you didn't noticed Shaw never jumps like crazy when we score. Lindelof and Dave are not showing high level of emotions too when we score. Sell them all?
No you said we "shouldn't be human behaviour or body language experts"
Yet here you are telling posters you've never met their criticism of Martial is racially motivated.
Life comes at you quick.
You can't have seen his reaction yesterday.
Passion isn't a bonus, it's a requirement. If you don't have it you won't succeed here.
Don’t understand your sentence, maybe you need to slow down?
Are you a human behaviour or body language expert?
So you're never sure why people get defensive when you insinuate they're basing their judgment of a player on the player's race? You don't get why that may trigger a reaction?
As far as your assessment of Martial goes, yes, he showed quality in front of goal and great dribbling ability...a long time ago. Since then he's, at best, showed in very limited snatches what he can do on those fronts. Unless you think he's been showing them to the best of his ability these last few years?
White players can absolutely be lazy, just as black players can. Luke Shaw, Wayne Rooney...both unprofessional and don't always look after themselves in the off season. Fred is our most energetic midfielder. None of these facts make martial's recent underperformance, lack of running etc invalid.
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When player is not playing and his future is in doubt then of course that he is not feeling the game like other players do.
Btw, watch Greenwoods reactions when some other player scores. Nothing more than Martial's.
Look at Martial's reactions on goals when he was regular. He was always over the moon when goal is scored. Especially when he has scored that goal (lets be honest here, most strikers always celebrate own goals more).
When player is not playing and his future is in doubt then of course that he is not feeling the game like other players do.
Btw, watch Greenwoods reactions when some other player scores. Nothing more than Martial's.
He got booed on, he's probably not happy with manager after last week and we know he wants to leave, hardly surprising his celebration was low key.
Do you know if any of the fans who comment isn’t based on Race? You seen social media comments about Black players haven’t you, it exists.….
My point remains the same and again, it’s not me, it’s well documented. Yes white players can be lazy, but my point is generally they are not called it.…..I’m happy for someone to correct me….
Although he was decent when he came on, it really was the bare minimum you’d expect from a United forward that was told to go on and don’t worry about anything except trying to get the ball in the back of the net. I think we all know how it would have ended if he’d have started the game.
This is where his strengths lie, coming off the bench and making a difference with no other duties tied to that role. The problem is he thinks he should be starting.
the 15 minute man
who took the tumble?If he would have started we wouldn't even need a late goal. He is our best striker at the club, what's not clicking? Especially in this new 433 that no longer has bruno closer to the goal we will need more finesse and skill. Ronaldo and Cavani cant offer that ahead of Martial.
He offers what our other forwards don't, with the exception of Sancho but we're yet to see him get going either. We have a group of forwards who's first instinct is to get a shot off from anywhere around the box. We need someone with Martial's skill set.
I'd love nothing more than a Martial redemption arc but I'm fairly certain he'll leave and I'm sure it's probably for the best. If/when he does leave, we should be looking for a forward with a similar skill set.
Don't ķnow if this has already been mentioned but have you seen his reaction when the goal went in? Or I should say non reaction
Off you go Anthony.
If he has to go for that then so should the other striker we have, who got there significantly later than Anthony, and was pretty much back on the half way line while Anthony was still in the corner with Cavani, Fred and Rashford.
Why are people surprised by his reaction? Not only is he having a horrid time here as of late, he was booed by his own fans when he came on. Never mind the fact that he's always been quite reserved if he's not the one who scored.
What matters is that he didn't let that faze him. He still showed some urgency, kept asking for the ball, and was a big reason why we won.
Also, after the final whistle, he gave a good ol' fist pump.
What matters is that he didn't let that faze him. He still showed some urgency, kept asking for the ball, and was a big reason why we won.
Also, after the final whistle, he gave a good ol' fist pump.
I'm talking about me, though. You not-so-subtly implied that my impression of him as lazy had something to do with him being black, which I'm pushing back hard against. Of course racism exists, in response to the bolded, I'm not sure that's ever been part of this discussion. Also, your 'its not me, it's well documented' is from the 'i'm just asking questions' vein of rhetoric. Own the things you believe.
I don't want him to leave because of that one thing.
It's just that non celebration of a last minute winner is him summed up. That's just an example of his general low enthusiasm approach to football.
And I was a fan of him for a long time but it's clear as day now what's going on.
Yep a player with low enthusiasm to football and to the club would come on and completely change the dynamic of the game with his urgency and directness and he'd also make an overlapping run ahead of Ronaldo in the final minutes to receive the ball and play a perfectly weighted pass in to Cavani leading up to the goal, that adds up! I don't think I've ever seen a player criticized for how they've reacted to a goal that they helped create, and that's not even considering the fact that he (like me and I'm sure many others) had some concerns about the goal being ruled off for offside. People like you are bewildered that he has a 'cult following' yet you micro analyse everything he does to pick out faults and criticize him even after a positive cameo...incredible lack of self awareness.
He has fundamental quality.
I can’t remember the last time he played well for 90 mins but he wouldn’t be the only one there.
What is his best position? I suppose LW. There was that period where he was playing no. 9 but never got out of our half.
I know there’s talk of him leaving and probably he will. If he stays I can’t really see him getting games. Bit of a shame when you think of his natural ability.
I can’t remember the last time he played well for 90 mins but he wouldn’t be the only one there.
What is his best position? I suppose LW. There was that period where he was playing no. 9 but never got out of our half.
I know there’s talk of him leaving and probably he will. If he stays I can’t really see him getting games. Bit of a shame when you think of his natural ability.
I didn’t see anything out of character from Tony during the goal celebration. He’s a low key guy by nature and doesn’t seem to want any attention paid to him. He joined his teammates at the corner flag and I’m sure was genuinely thrilled. He just doesn’t express himself as someone like Cavani does.
I am concerned, however, with the minimal effort he typically puts in on the pitch. He played an important role yesterday in the match winner, so the for the moment Martial deserves praise for that. But the Martial we’ve seen over the last 18 months is a player we cannot have in the squad for another 18 months, though his contract is such that we may never find a buyer for him.
I am concerned, however, with the minimal effort he typically puts in on the pitch. He played an important role yesterday in the match winner, so the for the moment Martial deserves praise for that. But the Martial we’ve seen over the last 18 months is a player we cannot have in the squad for another 18 months, though his contract is such that we may never find a buyer for him.
Come summer, Cavani will be gone, Ronaldo will be 6 months older. Rashford, though scoring in last few games, hasn't been great for a longer period now and Sancho hasn't really settled well still. So it's not like it's impossible for Martial to rejuvenate himself at United. Don't think it'll happen though.
Hes the closest thing to a false 9 we have. He badly needs to up his intensity though. Rashford and Martial going through the motions is no good. When they step it up they can beat anyone, they are good players. Massively lacking in aggression. It’s a pity. Our best players are far too laid back and it’s a bad look
Never mention you or implied either. I used your reference in general to make a point, which equally you could agree or disagree with, or say nothing. Does it happen yes, ‘it’s not me‘ comment isn’t about owning it, I raised it. The point I was raising is don’t polarise it as my opinion, it’s well documented as others. The problem with many of these type of discussions is more often than not, its met with people being defensive rather than acknowledging that it happens or offering a view.
This is why you can never have a open discussion as some would sooner not even explore why some labels like the ones associated with Black players yet rarely associated with white ones. Let’s just go back to the original point to why Martial didn’t celebrate the goal, maybe that’s a bit more palatable for some on here.
Does that own it enough for you, no rhetoric just an opinion.
I'm judging him on the last 7 years, not the last 15 mins like yourself.
If his approach is on point and obviously the talent is there, why hasn't it worked out? Why hasn't he been a massive success. Why is he leaving? Why have multiple managers tried and failed to get consistentcy from him. Why have multiple managers dropped him?
It must be a real head scratcher for you. There's no logical explanation IF you think his attitude is right.
More interested in if the same player had a role in that last minute winner or not.
He played well yesterday however he was very close to taking one too many touches. Should have released Cavani sooner. Still worked out though thankfully. I'd like to see some rotation on the wing with Martial given more game time. Elanga will come good in time and he puts in a shift, but I'm not convinced he should be starting ahead of Martial and Rashford. Not yet anyways....
He’s just got this incredible tightness with ball control that makes you enjoy watching him.
Unfortunately that’s mostly where it ends with him. It’s a mirage. It’s that glimmer that keeps you holding onto him.
The 3rd manager that wants him out now
He was the only one that didn’t celebrate our goal. Adios
Unfortunately that’s mostly where it ends with him. It’s a mirage. It’s that glimmer that keeps you holding onto him.
The 3rd manager that wants him out now
He was the only one that didn’t celebrate our goal. Adios
Elanga has come in to help take pressure off those two, credit to Ralf for managing the situation. Elanga has contributed solidly and will get better.
He was boo'ed coming on...
He did celebrate, it was just more subdued. He had a smile on his face.
He looked right away at the ref and then went timidly towards the corner to celebrate, so probably still had a doubt that it was offside.
It's crazy we're arguing over this but it's nothing surprising on here.
But in this context it was used as a deflection tactic to shift the conversation away from Martial being lazy (you obviously like him as a player) and on to stereotyping in football. I agree it happens but I also think Martial has been lazy. It's not like that's s particularly controversial take.
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