He's been at the club for 6 years now and the same complaints have been coming in since Year 2 and those who have noticed the pattern are the crazy ones. Amazing.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I'm not sure where you're seeing indifference. He's having a bit of a nightmare start, but I don't think it's down to lack of effort.
It's just the usual Martial hate coming into play here. People saying he's useless, lacks effort, weak mentality. As suspected, a natural no. 9 like Cavani is showing us what we miss from Martial on a consistent basis but Martial's actually been the best player to play on the left this season and his overall play is good. It's his finishing that has been bad which is unusual for him
The problem was he maybe right about Rashford Martial, Pogba (his own bought player) but he was wrong about Sanchez, Lukaku, Bailly and so much other cr*p. He was hardly right about anything good only the bad stuff. Perisic over Martial? Nah I'm okay thanks even if one struggles doesn't mean his ideas come out better.
Perisic over Martial
Ummm yes. In 2017 Perisic over Martial by far.
Perisic went on to have a huge year in the world cup in 2018 and then won CL with Bayern in 2020.
So yes back when Mourinho wanted Perisic, yes, Perisic over Martial, a no brainer.
Perisic went on to win things, both in world cup almost but then with Bayern he did win and he played a big role, was starting most games for them so clearly Mourinho got that right, that you can win with Perisic.
Gosh people overrate Martial here like crazy.
And Mourinho liked Rashford.
And how exactly was he wrong about Lukaku?
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I would play Pellistri ahead of Martial on the wings. Not as mobile anymore and poor work-rate. Pellistri very quick and better close control. Also Greenwood ahead of both Rashford and Martial as well as his intricate play and finishing much better but of course Ole will stumble upon that by accident.
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Im with you here. It’s always easier to not be over critical of Martial or Rashford because both have a very loyal and vocal fan base on here but both of them could, and should be upgraded on. They would both be very good cover for better quality options.
Neither would get into any of our successful teams over the last 30 years.
I dont like this tendency of people to lump in Rashford with Martial. .
Rashford has definitely had his moments this year.
2 goals vs Paris, both into their net unlike Martial. 3 goals vs Leipzig, some really good moments in the PL too with goals, assists, chances created etc.
He is also able to play multiple positions, he plays from the right, he has become our facilitator in a lot of ways and a lot goes through Rashford.
For Rashford's standards maybe he hasnt been that great but he is Champions League leading scorer. His standards are just way higher than Martial's at this point.
So in conclusion I disagree. Rashford can definitely be a player on a PL winning or a CL winning team. Rashford is much more mentally stronger and just has better mentality overall. He took that penalty vs Paris at 21. You can count on Rashford more often than not. Dependable and puts in a shift. Strong minded. Complete opposite to Martial.
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I never said I don’t see Rashford as being good enough to be part of a title winning side. I do as it happens and I like him. My point is that he isn’t quite as good as some on here make out and wouldn’t have got into some of our best side from years gone by. I think he needs some top class strikers / forwards alongside him and we definitely shouldn't be in a position where he should be a starter every match while not in form, as he isn't currently. Players of Cavani's level so we aren’t relying on him too much.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to derail the Martial thread and Martial should be moved out to the left or even be sold as I'm fed up of waiting for him to arrive while being told he's one of the clubs better players ... which on current form is utter nonsense.
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That sounds like a Snowflake thing to say.
If you count Paris as a top team, Martial has exactly 1 goal vesus such a team in the CL. Here some small breakdown about his scorers:
15/16
1 goal vs ZSKA, other opponents Eindhoven and Wolfsburg.
About 500 minutes played.
17/18
1 goal, 2 assists vs ZSKA, other opponents Basel, Benfica, Sevilla.
About 335 minutes played.
18/19
1 goal vs Young Boys, other opponents Juve, Valencia, Paris, Barca.
About 500 minutes played.
19/20
Assist vs Paris, goal and assist vs Leipzig, goal vs Basaksehir.
Own goal vs Paris!
About 430 minutes played.
I strongly believe that the Leipzig game was an exception. I haven't ever seen a Nagelsmann team falling so apart like in that game. I believe match day 6 we won't see a Leipzig side getting that destroyed.
Furthermore Martial scored the 4th goal and assisted the 5th. Some might say, that these goals were of minor importance.
Overall his contributions in scorers as a forward for a top team are just terrible.
Sancho has 1 scorer less (1 goal) in 8 less games but he scored vs. the likes of Inter, Atletico and Barca. Plus Sancho contributes a lot more the game than Martial does.
this is his sixth season at the club. SIXTH!!
how many more years does Martial FC want their boy to have to reach Ballon d'or levels?
listen i quite like this 25 yr old man. he's obviously talented and still can be useful as a squad player as a wide forward.
But is he someone you can rely on to lead the line at a club with big ambitions?
I think judging on his 5 years at the club i would say no. He Lacks the Drive and Determination on the pitch imo
how many more years does Martial FC want their boy to have to reach Ballon d'or levels?
listen i quite like this 25 yr old man. he's obviously talented and still can be useful as a squad player as a wide forward.
But is he someone you can rely on to lead the line at a club with big ambitions?
I think judging on his 5 years at the club i would say no. He Lacks the Drive and Determination on the pitch imo
I have a theory that's probably wrong. Martial previous issue was not taking enough shots and he seemed to rely on specific types of shots (finesse shots) and hotzones rather than shooting from all angles and positions. This meant that his conversion was high as he seemed to score many of the efforts he took without taking too much. Now that he is playing CF, he is required to shoot more and from various positions and perhaps he isn't as clinical as initially appeared (although still a good finisher when confident). Its like Steph Curry. He is the best shooter because he averages 44% from 3pt range and takes lots of efforts, including difficult shots off the dribble and from deep long range. There are some other 3 pt shooters who have avg 40-43% but off fewer efforts and mostly catch and shoot (far easier). The more you try, typically the more failures you get, unless you are Steph who is the GOAT
I could be completely wrong though and he could be shooting just as much/little as normal, but is not confident at the moment. Probably someone who understands XG will pop up and put me in my place!
I see a severe lack of effort, mentally and physically. His movement off the ball is atrocious. On the sitter miss, it was a failure of concentration. If we could sit down together and watch it again, we would both see he failed to commit to positioning his body to keep the ball down.
His talent, oh my. It’s all there. But the mental and physical application of all that talent is what’s lacking. Let’s put it this way: Salah has no more talent than Martial, let’s say perhaps the same, but his desire to work hard vastly exceeds Martian’s. The moment Tony gets it is the moment he moves in to Balon D’Or territory.
I disagree. I think he suffers from at times quite severe confidence/concentration issues, Salah at the same age was a Chelsea outcast, tossed aside by Mourinho. Was that down to lack of application? I see Martial getting back to defend more than Rashford does, yet you get the commentators saying that Mbappe was drifting to Martial's side because the defensive application isn't always there. I just think commentators fall back on tired cliches with Martial simply due to his introverted nature. All that being said, I am starting to lose patience with the guy. He simply needs to score that goal.
Played well, awful miss
Arguably our best player last year. Important player for us. Huge overreaction here...
Arguably our best player last year. Important player for us. Huge overreaction here...
I would still put him on the wing and not as the striker. He is better on the wing, despite the horrific miss.
Martial did track way back and make an important defensive contribution against PSG, but in general his defensive contribution isn’t substantial...but I wouldn’t expect it to be and would never hold that against him. What I ask of him are chance creation and goals scored. And I also ask leadership, especially big games.
Perhaps it’s unfair to compare Martial to Cole, Ruud and Rooney, but it’s impossible to believe that any of those three would have missed that sitter. Or walk around the pitch waiting for the perfect ball. They asserted themselves into the game, even when going through a rough patch. They didn’t wait for the ball. The latter two had a bit of a shitbag streak, sometimes committing edgy fouls, but that shitbaggery quite often propelled back into high gear.
Somebody has to get through to Tony to get him to hit that high gear. I see a player who be standing on the same stage as Salah for high honors...but I don’t see in him a player who wants it badly enough.
Happy with his overall performance againt PSG, was arguably our best player that night. Involved in every good chances we had.
But what happened to his finishing? Since that infamous night against Sevilla it's really really bad. Those full black shoes maybe?
But what happened to his finishing? Since that infamous night against Sevilla it's really really bad. Those full black shoes maybe?
He's still a starter. Who's been better than him on the left this season?
Would have been better for us
I'd go with this. A player as streaky as he is shouldn't be leading the line for us but he's extremely talented and has a lot to offer. I have always had faith in him as a striker but Cavani's (albeit very small sample size) introduction to the team makes me think we really should be playing Martial as a wide forward and prioritize a proper striker.
Agreed. He just doesnt have the movement to be a striker.
I have been saying for a while we need a world class striker more than a world class right winger.
Hypothetically if we bought a world class right winger and did not address the striker, we would still have problems i feel.
Martial will no doubt improve at one point and start performing well. The problem, it's terrible really to have a main player that can be off form for 2-3 successive months in the league.
It's not a bizzare theory but I think it doesn't apply when you look at his goals and performance last season. I just think he's lost the composure he had in front of goal. My personal theory for this is that he's feeling pressure to keep scoring as a result of him being noticed. Last season he was kind of under the radar so he could perform with less pressure. This season he has been called up by the world cup winners and playing along side elite players. This season the team is putting their full trust in him because he impressed last season. He HAS to perform now.
He's freezing in front of goal and missing easy chances that he doesn't usually miss. Looks to me like a player cracking under pressure. And this is what separates a player that could be world class to a player that will be. I think he's best as a left winger. He seems more comfortable there were he's just supporting the team rather than being relied upon
This. I would still keep him. Some are saying to sell him. I would sell Pogba alright but keep Martial.
That makes no sense since he hasn't been better than Martial the last couple of years and is even worse than him this season.
It's funny because he was far more involved in the game than Cavani who ran a lot off the ball but didn't contribute anything except the one missed chance Martial created for him.
People are out of their damn minds in this thread. Honestly. Willian.
You people do remember he was our top scorer last season? I see suggestions like how swapping him for Willian would have been better for us. I mean I was upset when he missed the sitter and wrote some impolite words but come on, footballers can make mistakes. His season has been stop and start
with injury and suspension. And that awful miss against PSG has amplified the anger against him but come on, swapping him for Willian is pushing it too far.
Him back and firing is important for us.
with injury and suspension. And that awful miss against PSG has amplified the anger against him but come on, swapping him for Willian is pushing it too far.
Him back and firing is important for us.
This was my second theory
Frustration has a way of driving people on the brink of madness. Martial can be criticized fairly in terms of finishing for sure but he has also been fairly creative for his teammates.
It's basically mentality issue. Inconsistent & bottle.
I have said it since last season. This is the big difference between Martial/Rashford with Salah/Mane. People can talk about the number these four scored were almost equal last season but what make the big difference is the mentality. Martial/Rashford mentality are still not in world class mentality yet. Very often we see important games when they really need to score or turn up, they didn't.
Martial really bottled the PSG game. He needed the goal not just to save his team but also answer the critics of his poor form & gain confidence. And he didn't take it when he was given an easy chance to score.
Rashford at his age still has few years left to develop his mentality but Martial is already at age where he needs to show it. The only thing he can do now is that keep trying, working harder, focus and quickly improve his mentality.
shhh... Don't speak sense to the haters. He actually had a very good game apart from a horrific miss.
I get your point but would you say the same about De Gea when he dropped a clanger 'he had a very good game apart from that mistake which cost us the game'?
Well, I actually took it as a real statement.
A horrific miss? One miss?
Is there a new way of winning football games aside from scoring?
He has to kickstart his season against West Ham. I would rest Bruno and Marcus and play Martial, Mason and Pogba. That's more than enough quality to beat them. Time to live up to the 'ice cold Martial' nickname.
But how haha. Martial didnt score a goal against Paris. Not in their net anyway haha
What in the blue hell are you talking about?
Again lumping in Rashford with Martial.
You are saying something about Rashford developing his mentality? Really?
Look, Rashford is Mourinho approved. That counts for something as Mourinho got this team spot on in terms of how he evaluated our players.
Not only that but Rashford was 21 when he took that penalty vs Paris. A great leader, calm, cool and collected. All time great Manchester United moment.
Please, please, stop lumping in Rashford with Martial. They are not the same. Rashford is far better, he also has already scored 9 goals this year, they are just not the same. Especially in terms of mentality.
Stop lumping them in together. Rashford is far far better.
I was actually comparing Rashford with Salah & Mane not with Martial. If you think Rashford has developed world class mentality like Salah & Mane then I disagree. He still needs to improve that aspect to be comparable to those world class players. He’s ahead of martial in this aspect though.
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