[M16Red]

Martial and Lingard both played 9 1/2 today, interchanging constantly throughout the first 60 minutes. Then after Greenwood and Mata came on, Martial switched to the left. I'm not sure what Ole's logic was with that, but there's evidently some question marks about his ability to spearhead the attack.

The biggest indictment of Martial is that he doesn't get on the end of enough chances. If he were more effective at that part of his job, the chances that his teammates missed would be falling to him instead.

It's ironic that Rashford, Greenwood, Lingard and James get criticised for getting into scoring chances with good movement and then ending with poor finishing. But Martial gets an easier ride for not getting into scoring chances in the first place because of his poor movement.

For whatever reason, it seems that Martial doesn't trust himself to outmuscle defenders at the near post. Almost every single attack sees him hang back at the edge of the box. If he could fix that, he'd be considerably more prolific.

That's just it... can he, because he's wanted that position for a long time and yet seems intent on moving deeper to receive the ball and doesn't have the movement of a 9 - them small inside to outside movement to create the space and he seem to like standing in front of the defender this allow the block to be solid.

Because this guy is trying to pin and turn but the bad news the block is so low that by the time it comes back he is still making his way into the box.. if he just stood in-between the two it would occupy one or both of them.

Hate to say this but Lukaku with James would have been interesting, yes he had a poor touch but he knew where the six yard box was.

 

[Bondi77]

Well I suppose the sad thing is is that as long as football has been played Centre Forwards are judged on how many goals they score as defenders and goalkeepers are judged on how many they concede no matter how talented they are as footballers and when the numbers are not in their favour the pressure will build until that changes.
I do feel a bit sorry for Martial as the service he gets is non existent at times but the lad has enough talent to get the ball himself and skip past a couple of defenders and get an attempt on target but that is rare and he never seems to get on the end of anything around the six yard box and that is what top strikers do even when they are not playing well.

 

[M16Red]

Well I suppose the sad thing is is that as long as football has been played Centre Forwards are judged on how many goals they score as defenders and goalkeepers are judged on how many they concede no matter how talented they are as footballers and when the numbers are not in their favour the pressure will build until that changes.
I do feel a bit sorry for Martial as the service he gets is non existent at times but the lad has enough talent to get the ball himself and skip past a couple of defenders and get an attempt on target but that is rare and he never seems to get on the end of anything around the six yard box and that is what top strikers do even when they are not playing well.

Nutshell

 

[Dante]

He drops deep naturally, pretty sure he started as a lone striker?

He's only been dropping deep for the last few games. Prior to that, he played exclusively high up. And before this season, he spent most of his time on the left, level with the opposition fullback.

His dropping into the hole is a new thing.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

he was actually very good.

 

[M16Red]

he was actually very good.

No one was good, never mind very good. They were all poor and got bullied.

 

[Amar__]

Always better on the left

This is great. And not true btw.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No one was good, never mind very good. They were all poor and got bullied.

I thought he was good, our man of the match. He holds the ball very well and bring others into play but the other players keep screwing their passing and end product. Could have got an assist and had a 1-0 lead if Lingard wasn’t being a Lingard for that one on one. He also showed up in the box. The guy provided good services for others but he didn’t get any decent services from others today.

 

[Raven]

Hes horrible. His attitude stinks. That was the worst team in the league today. Why do people stick up for this guy. Am I missing something. Hes a shite footballer

Cringeworthy mate. How can u back him when he consistently fails to deliver not through lack of ability but because he can't be arsed.

Crikey. Absolute nonsense.

 

[Dante]

I thought he was good, our man of the match. He holds the ball very well and bring others into play but the other players keep screwing their passing and end product. Could have got an assist and had a 1-0 lead if Lingard wasn’t being a Lingard for that one on one. He also showed up in the box. The guy provided good services for others but he didn’t get any decent services from others today.

Lingard was being a Lingard by making a fantastic run.

If Martial could have done the same thing, he might have scored.

 

[Freeney]

He and Pogba were the only players who had any type of quality. They really looked miles ahead of any United player in the football IQ department.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Lingard was being a Lingard by making a fantastic run.

If Martial could have done the same thing, he might have scored.

Let’s don’t push it that way. Because I don’t think the service from other players (anyone except Pogba & Martial) today could give us one goal. Let’s talk about the quality of the service first before talk about run because there is no point talking about making run if players can’t even pass the ball to find their man.

 

[M16Red]

I thought he was good, our man of the match. He holds the ball very well and bring others into play but the other players keep screwing their passing and end product. Could have got an assist and had a 1-0 lead if Lingard wasn’t being a Lingard for that one on one.

I think they were all poor, I'm just not sure that his guy is a 9 that we need.. I'm hope that pog in that 10 role will allow him to run off Cbs because right now he is too deep.

 

[Raven]

Kin hell man, you don't need to make a million excuses for him. He's leading the line for United in his favourite shirt and position and so far he's doing as shit a job as Lukaku did in his worst Premier League year ever.

Keane, Neville and co will shut the feck up when Martial bangs in at a similar rate to Rashford this year. That's why Rashford's thread is quiet, not because of today but because of the entire season.

You realise that Martial was injured for like 2 months right?

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Well I suppose the sad thing is is that as long as football has been played Centre Forwards are judged on how many goals they score as defenders and goalkeepers are judged on how many they concede no matter how talented they are as footballers and when the numbers are not in their favour the pressure will build until that changes.
I do feel a bit sorry for Martial as the service he gets is non existent at times but the lad has enough talent to get the ball himself and skip past a couple of defenders and get an attempt on target but that is rare and he never seems to get on the end of anything around the six yard box and that is what top strikers do even when they are not playing well.

He did this very thing literally 1 game ago, and not for the first time this season. He was one of the few players who seemed capable of creating an opening today.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

That intensity and urgency he showed late on.

MORE OF THAT please. He's maddening to watch.

 

[OhGee]

Lingard was being a Lingard by making a fantastic run.

If Martial could have done the same thing, he might have scored.

Err you do realize that as a 10 you should be the one dropping into spaces and playing through balls - right? Lingard can’t pick a pass to save his life. All he does is run around like a headless chicken and fans think he had a great game. I can recollect at least 3 times today when he misplaced easy passes from the attacking third and Watford caught us on the break.

 

[el3mel]

Well I suppose the sad thing is is that as long as football has been played Centre Forwards are judged on how many goals they score as defenders and goalkeepers are judged on how many they concede no matter how talented they are as footballers and when the numbers are not in their favour the pressure will build until that changes.
I do feel a bit sorry for Martial as the service he gets is non existent at times but the lad has enough talent to get the ball himself and skip past a couple of defenders and get an attempt on target but that is rare and he never seems to get on the end of anything around the six yard box and that is what top strikers do even when they are not playing well.

Bingo. That has always been my problem with him as a striker. He's never in the box it's ridiculous. Always dropping deep to the midfield, and whenever we get the ball to the flanks to cross there's literally no in in to get at the end of them, for the majority of time. With this he will barely hit 15 goals this season. We need a striker with more presence up front.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That intensity and urgency he showed late on.

MORE OF THAT please. He's maddening to watch.

Agreed. When he gets in the mood he’s frightening, but getting him in that mood is hard. To be fair that was the first time he played LW for a while, and he looked like he enjoyed it!

maybe being a 9 isn’t what he was expecting after all.

I didn’t think he was bad today but some of the passes were so slow into him. He makes a run them gets the pass just too late. no coincidence he played much better once pogba came on.

 

[PaulRich]

That last quarter of an hour. That's what we want Antony. FFS

 

[flappyjay]

Bingo. That has always been my problem with him as a striker. He's never in the box it's ridiculous. Always dropping deep to the midfield, and whenever we get the ball to the flanks to cross there's literally no in in to get at the end of them, for the majority of time. With this he will barely hit 15 goals this season. We need a striker with more presence up front.

I don't get it it. He stays up and our crap midfielders can't make accurate passes to him then there is talk about he wasn't involved in the game. He comes deep and creates a bunch of chances and you lot still complain

 

[kouroux]

This is great. And not true btw.

It is true, blatantly true. Long term, he won't be our striker anyway

 

[Amar__]

It is true, blatantly true. Long term, he won't be our striker anyway

This is like Rooney all over again.

 

[kouroux]

This is like Rooney all over again.

Yes but when Rooney was much older when it got like that for him. If Martial had half of the mental strength of Rooney he would be a sick player

 

[el3mel]

I don't get it it. He stays up and our crap midfielders can't make accurate passes to him then there is talk about he wasn't involved in the game. He comes deep and creates a bunch of chances and you lot still complain

He can drop deep to help in the build up then join up front in the box when the ball goes wide. I remember Zlatan succeeding in doing both and thus kept a presence up front while helping in the buildup as well. Martial just drops and barely joins up front whenever the ball goes wide so when we cross there is no one at the end of the ball to receive it. Everything about him screams not being a clear number 9.

 

[roonster09]

I dont get the criticism for him, he was good and when our midfield can't bring the ball to final third obviously he had to drop deep to help the team.

Our issue is not attacking players, it's the midfield. They just can't pass well or create chances, it's even worse with having Lingard as 10.

 

[Amar__]

Yes but when Rooney was much older when it got like that for him. If Martial had half of the mental strength of Rooney he would be a sick player

In the past two years whenever he has played as left wing forward he was even more inconsistent than as a striker, and his workrate was even worse. I am not sure that during those two years he ever had prolonged period of good games on the left wing.

 

[RUCK4444]

Yes but when Rooney was much older when it got like that for him. If Martial had half of the mental strength of Rooney he would be a sick player

Yeah people moaning about him dropping deep, Rooney at Martial’s age would have dropped deep, outmuscled every fecker on the pitch, played a one two, pinged it out wide right and got on the end of the cross. It’s about attitude and desire.

I like Martial but his consistency and ability to impose himself on the game is a big problem for us if he remains our no 9.

 

[kouroux]

In the past two years whenever he has played as left wing forward he was even more inconsistent than as a striker, and his workrate was even worse. I am not sure that during those two years he ever had prolonged period of good games on the left wing.

He had several prolonged periods of good games on the left wing, the most notable was when, for some unknown reason, Mourinho to feck him up by acquiring Sanchez and put him on the right before benching him altogether. He was playing his best football on the left then

 

[kouroux]

Yeah people moaning about him dropping deep, Rooney at Martial’s age would have dropped deep, outmuscled every fecker on the pitch, played a one two, pinged it out wide right and got on the end of the cross. It’s about attitude and desire.

I like Martial but his consistency and ability to impose himself on the game is a big problem for us if he remains our no 9.

It takes a certain type of player to play in the middle, play with others and also be dangerous himself inside the box. Martial has the ability but I question if he has the mental fortitude to do that week in week out.

 

[Hawks2008]

Lukaku was shit for us but Martial makes me wish he kept him.

 

[RUCK4444]

It takes a certain type of player to play in the middle, play with others and also be dangerous himself inside the box. Martial has the ability but I question if he has the mental fortitude to do that week in week out.

Yeah that’s exactly the point I’m making.

There’s no doubt he has ability but the mental application is not there, if it were there we would have an exceptional player on our hands.

 

[Jeffthered]

He and Pogba were the only players who had any type of quality. They really looked miles ahead of any United player in the football IQ department.

I am both surprised and a little worried to find that some on here STILL consider Anthony Martial as a striker worthy of a NO. 9 shirt at Man Utd.

This is a wildly over-rated player. Arrogant. Poor decision making. Little 'natural' football intelligence. Questionable attitude. Consistently inconsistent. Uninfluential. A v average goal scoring record for a No 9... and he is not as good as he thinks he is.

Consider these points and compare Martial to Kane, Aguero, Vardy, Abraham.. He isn't even close to their performance bracket.

Every manager has experienced the same issues with Martial, nothing changes. Deschamps doesn't want him in his squad, he just plays in friendly matches, if that...

Why people expect something different, I just do not know.

He'll score a flashy goal soon, and the cycle will start again.

 

[OL29]

I am both surprised and a little worried to find that some on here STILL consider Anthony Martial as a striker worthy of a NO. 9 shirt at Man Utd.

This is a wildly over-rated player. Arrogant. Poor decision making. Little 'natural' football intelligence. Questionable attitude. Consistently inconsistent. Uninfluential. A v average goal scoring record for a No 9... and he is not as good as he thinks he is.

Consider these points and compare Martial to Kane, Aguero, Vardy, Abraham.. He isn't even close to their performance bracket.

Every manager has experienced the same issues with Martial, nothing changes. Deschamps doesn't want him in his squad, he just plays in friendly matches, if that...

Why people expect something different, I just do not know.

He'll score a flashy goal soon, and the cycle will start again.

How anyone can come to the conclusion that he’s arrogant is really beyond me but I see the same claims being made about Pogba, Gomes, Lingard etc and it’s hard not to see a pattern forming.

 

[Santoryo]

The man literally created all our 3 biggest and clearest chances(Pass to Longer, Rashford and Pogba) and created one for himself beating 3 players yet some want to claim that he was horrible.

Beside him and Pogba no one else created anything. Another day he has 3 assists.

I don't get it it. He stays up and our crap midfielders can't make accurate passes to him then there is talk about he wasn't involved in the game. He comes deep and creates a bunch of chances and you lot still complain

This. There is simply no winning for Martial with some people. People bring up him failing as a number 9 because he wasn't getting at the end of anything, at the end of what exactly.

He stays up and starve then people say he's not involved, timid etc. He try to make runs but he can't be found and worse our players behind put in passes late which find him office then you have people moaning that he's offside.

Since there isn't any service he's forced to drop deep and orchestrate the play himself which he actually did. He created 3 big chances and we should have at at least score from 1 of them. Then you have people criticising him for not being at the end of those chances, well he was deep creating them, is he supposed to teleport and assist himself?

Martial is currently targeted therefore with certain people they'll always find reasons to claim he was horrible.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

How anyone can watch that performance yesterday and think “Id prefer Lukaku over Martial today “ is honestly a total fool. He played pretty well overall, held the ball, played some nice passes and should have had a nailed on assist. I’m fed up of the different standards that apply to him and Pogba.

 

[Santoryo]

How anyone can watch that performance yesterday and think “Id prefer Lukaku over Martial today “ is honestly a total fool. He played pretty well overall, held the ball, played some nice passes and should have had a nailed on assist. I’m fed up of the different standards that apply to him and Pogba.

This. People having the cojones to try and bullshit that Lukaku would have been useful in that game are off their rockers

Lukaku would have ended up having an anonymous game because of lack of services like most of our attacking players. What Martial could do despite lack of services is drop deep and get involved in the general play and create for others himself which he did.

People believe what they want to believe. No striker is going to strive with a blatant lack of services and that's been the case with us against these smaller teams.

 

[Renegade]

Yeah people moaning about him dropping deep, Rooney at Martial’s age would have dropped deep, outmuscled every fecker on the pitch, played a one two, pinged it out wide right and got on the end of the cross. It’s about attitude and desire.

I like Martial but his consistency and ability to impose himself on the game is a big problem for us if he remains our no 9.

Show me a goal where he did this?

nostalgia is playing tricks on you. Rooney did these things in isolation not in combination . That’s completely unreal expectations of a centre forward.

 

[Irrational.]

To be fair I'd find it difficult to score too if the players I was relying on for service were a pace merchant who was in the defender's back pocket, a man who just thundercunts it from anywhere and JLingz.

 

[Mcking]

Technically, he's superb. His touch, dribbling, passing, link-up play and finishing are very good, but he doesn't quite have the presence and the hunger you want from your centre forward. It doesn't help either when he has to rely on the likes of Wan-bissaka, Lingard, Rashford, James, McTominay to get the ball to him who are all average technicians at the highest level. He is one of our most gifted players, and we should be looking to get him on the ball as much as possible. The players behind him simply can't be relied upon to consistently get the ball to him in the centre forward role. I'd like to see him back in a more withdrawn role, linking up with talented players in Shaw and Pogba with a proper goalscorer in the box. You want your most gifted players getting on the ball especially against disciplined sides.