He contributes no less than Martial for me. Nothing particularly tangible anyway. The stats seem to concur with that.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 23
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
Similar? What counts as similar and how often has Martial done it? He’s not more creative. What is the sum total of his creativity because he’s not a good passer and he can’t cross the ball. Heading? Really? When was the last time Martial scored a header? Pointing out fantasy isn’t much of a problem really. I’m just pointing out it is fantasy. Nobody can watch Martial and think he can head the ball surely?
Not playing up front they aren’t. Rashford has a better scoring rate as a striker than Martial has.
I literally said I am fan of Rashford, but that I don't find any of them better than other, just stating that Martial has flaws himself people tend to ignore, considering it's popular lately to attack only Rashford and pretend Martial is our saviour. I am fine with both of them actually, I would love if Martial make it as our first choice striker rather than buying someone else, with Rashford occupying one of wide positions. I think Martial has the talent, but has his flaws that people tend to ignore, while every little thing about Rashford is blown out of proportion. I mean, you have people just on the last page here using heading and passing in Martial's favour, when in reality they are both terrible aerially, and average passers, with Rashford actually being slightly better stats wise. Also many here talk about goalscoring abilities in Martial's favour, while they have pretty much identical record for United, both being played both wide and up front. But yeah, my Rashford bias is what's the problem here.
Why are you so biased @Amar__ ? Jesus.
Incredible stuff, they just ignore everything what everyone here proved and decide Martial is better at those things.
The stats tell you about their general play do they?
If you believe what you're writing, you can't have watched us much over the years. To call what i'm saying fantasy is a right laugh!
Martial has scored many headers over the years. Not so many over the past few years under Mourinho as he's played as a winger but there's enough to show he's decent at it when given the chance. These i can remember.
He is a number 9. Strikers don't cross the ball. As a striker, he is creative. He has an excellent first touch, good vision and understanding of his teammates. He is very involved in our general play.
Feel free to tell me how i have made it all up please.
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Well whoscored stats have him on 3 headed goals in his entire career so your main point looks made up.
The person said he is not good at headers. I am pointing out he has scored headers for us in the past. Feel free to take it as you will.
What has been proved?
I said Martial can shoot on his left foot, better hold-up, creativity & heading.
Please prove how anything i have said is wrong please.
He isn't signficantly(if anything) better at any of those things than Rashford, apart from maybe finishing with his left foot. I posted the stats about heading in which Rashford is slightly better, he is also losing the ball less in overall play(again, not signficiantly), while also making more passes and being involved more than Martial. Martial also scores same number of goals like Rashford while being regarded as better goalscorer for some reason.
No I can see it with my eyes too but I’m looking for something tangible here. He’s scored two headers in the Premier League. Rashford has scored three. They’re both shite in the air so how you can list it as something he’s better at is beyond me.
Good vision and understanding? What does this translate to? Martial floats in and out of games to the point where you don’t know he’s playing half the time. Martial can be very good but when he’s not he might as well not be there.
Well you’re imagining this great header of the ball for a start. How would you like me to prove it other than pointing out how many he has scored?
They actually have identical scoring records as a striker.
Rashford: 90 matches, 6574 mins, 32 goals, 13 assists = 146.08 mins per g/a
Martial: 47 matches, 2918 mins, 12 goals, 8 assists = 145.9 mins per g/a
You can make the argument that Martial with more experience up-front, his record will naturally improve too.
Martial is 2 years older, yet people try to tell me his development hasn't been stalled... look at how much more experience Rashford has had up-front.
So scoring headers means you’re better at heading than somebody who has scored more? Scoring 2 or 3 headers in four years is not evidence you are good at heading. It is quite the opposite. Now I understand your logic I can see why you think Martial is so much better.
I'm not sure how you're missing what everyone else is seeing.
Martial is a much better striker than Rashford which was proven during the early parts of the season. His touch and hold up play are far superior as is his finishing. Heading? Both are shit.
Martial under LVG showed how good and lethal he is as a striker. Rashford yet to show any form similar to that season while upfront.
Rashford's best position is wide left but he isn't great there either.
Depends where you take your stats from. From Transfermarkt Rashford 37 goals in 104 games up front and Martial has 23 goals in 90 games up front.
Even using the stats you provided what you’re proving is a striker two years younger than him has an almost identical record and yet it somehow beggars belief that he may potentially be as good a striker.
Personal preference i guess. I see him display a higher level of technique in the headers he's scored. He's not great at them i agree, but he's not bad either.
That’s a myth. Martial mostly played out left and performed better in that position under Van Gaal too.
Are we really using a three game sample where both players scored twice as evidence that Martial is a vastly superior striker?
Martial is a miles better striker. It's not even close. Throw all the stats you want out there, we perform better with Martial upfront.
Give Martial a run (finally) and you'll see the form he had under LVG - a season that Rashford will never emulate.
Martial is definitely a better finisher then Rashford and is one of the few players who consistently over performs compared to their xG. As a goalscorer though Martials movement wasnt good as a winger to get into these positions so the problem was he didn't get many chances, think he's just better at picking up positions through the middle though.
Also I would say there's a massive difference with Martial and Rashford in hold up play and it's actually something that Martial is very good at. He's very good at playing with his back to goal and with controlling the ball under pressure from defenders. Pogba and him are probably the only 2 players in our squad who can actually do that effectively.
Weak foot they're both meh with, but both capable of the occasional good goal. So nothing out of the ordinary there IMO. Both shite at heading but Rashford definitely better there. Passing no big difference. In terms of play style I definitely think Rashford is more suited to the wide forward role and Martial to a central role, but as player ability and potential they're similar. Rashford on his bad days is probably more noticeable as he tends to get involved more, while Martial just becomes invisible.
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Jesus Christ. A higher level of technique in the three headers he’s scored for Utd. Your posts are idiotic.
If you only want to talk goals they score, sure.
In that case Firmino is also average.
I took them from transfermarkt, they are filtered stats for at Man Utd. Are you sure you're not including his record for England too?
How does that make sense? Rashford has double the matches played as a striker than him. What i'm suggesting is, give Martial the same amount of experience and his record will naturally improve. That is obvious isn't it?
It should be
Do we? Based on what, three games where we got 4 points? Or the three games since he’s been out where we got 4 points?
Use your eyes and watch the performances. Night and day.
But why would we discount how they’ve performed up front in their careers? If he’s shown he’s capable of scoring goals up front for England then what difference does it make?
Over their whole careers he’s played a grand total of 14 games more and he’s also significantly younger. How about you factor that into how the players may improve?
Like i explained a million times before. In 15/16 a 19 year old Martial carried us that season. Our plan solely revolved around giving the ball to Martial he was that good. I'm still waiting to see Rashford have that level of influence on us as a team yet. When he does, then people can come back to me about him being a better striker.
Because they come under similar circumstances? Did Pogba play in the first three games and has he played in the last three? The answer to the difference may lie there.
But what else is it Martial is doing? Creating tons of chances? When? Tracking back and winning possession? When? What are these tangible things he’s doing. We already about the glorious technique he showed for three headers. Give me more.
The stats you want to include, assuming you're using Transfermarkt include Rashford's stats played in the youth teams unfiltered. Why would we ever want to take those into account? That is why i filtered them for at Man Utd.
I couldn't give a toss about his headers.
His finishing, dribbling, touch and hold up play are all superior if you can't see it then
That was me bringing up his headers as i said he was a better header of the ball than Rashford.I couldn't give a toss about his headers.
His finishing, dribbling, touch and hold up play are all superior if you can't see it then
Whats the bets he comes back from the injury a bit rusty for a game or two and gets slaughtered? He'll probably perform to par - about as well as Rashford has been playing last 5 games. He might jump up a level and be great but its not that likely.
But the statistics are irrelevant to the point that was being made. No one is debating that Martial (or Rashford) is consistent so you're creating a different argument, but there is a clear difference in ability to hold up the ball, in not solely relying on pace (and actually, Martial barely makes use of it compared to Rashford who almost solely depends on it). You see at times the combinations between Martial and Lukaku or Martial and Pogba and you simply wouldn't see those same link ups and short passing with Rashford.
I just think it's fair to assess that, right now, Martial's ability can bring more to the offense than Rashford, and there aren't any stats that are going to dissuade me from that point of view because I can see with my eyes that he just has that bit more ability to create danger for himself or others. He's much better in tight spaces and has the dribbling ability to worm himself out of a tight mark by one or two defenders near the box in a way Rashford simply can't.
Still think he has more tools as an out-and-out 9 than Rashy but I feel there's potential for a partnership with Rashford playing as a second striker. Rashford can come deep or drift wide without the burden of leading the line, Martial is decent at hold up and linking with his team mates and we've seen teams double mark him before so he will occupy players. If Martial can do all this and Rashford is finding the right spaces and timing his runs properly, as well as James and Pogba getting involved I think it could be dangerous.
This is of course a meaningless idea so long as we persist with a 4-2-3-1, but yeah I think these two in a 4-4-1-1 Would be decent if given time and coaching to build that partnership.
This is of course a meaningless idea so long as we persist with a 4-2-3-1, but yeah I think these two in a 4-4-1-1 Would be decent if given time and coaching to build that partnership.
Where's this coming from again? I don't see anything unreasonable being said. I like Rashford as much as Martial so there's no bias in claiming Martial's just an all round better player.
Anything positive about Martial is going to be Martial FC for some, it's childish.
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