[jderbyshire]

Can someone tell me what exactly he did when he came on that was so impressive?

All I saw was him get the ball and try to pass it into the box, only for it to be cleared easily by an Arsenal player.

 

[Grande]

This. Been a trend all season.

City have proven they can break down a bus-system and they use width from both Sterling and Sane along with 2 full backs.

We seem to crowd the oppositions box while we're all being man-marked. Our movement is too static and I dunno why. Maybe it's just the nature of the players we've signed or maybe it's from the lack of attacking coaching. If you look at City, it's like all of them know exactly where to be in every possible attacking situation and where they should be moving too, dragging the opposition all over the box and thus creating space.

This is no coincidence, it’s football strategy: Guardiola is a fan of extreme indoctrination of patterns of movement and automizations, Mourinho wants attacking players to have freedom and capability to think for themselves and improvize. His training is structured to help players being problem solvers. Closer to Fergie in that respect, while Pep is closer to Van Gaal.

This is partly why more mature, football intelligent and experienced players do well with Mourinho, like Zlatan, while players like Martial can struggle.

 

[Jig1234]

Lingard was very disappointing against Arsenal. In the first half he was in such fantastic positions to feed Lukaku a chance on goal but every pass and decision he made killed our attacks. His weight of pass sent Lukaku wide or turning his back on goal.

I would love to see Martial come back to the starting XI. Unlike Sanchez who always comes inside, Martial stays wide and always gives us an option. He put in a few good crosses and his one touch lay offs started a few good attacks.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Because playing on a different side of the pitch with freedom to move about is the same as playing in a completely different position? Also, Martial was dropped after playing on the left against Chelsea.

He didn’t play on the left against Chelsea btw, he was up top with Lukaku and Sanchez in behind.

The point remains, play someone out of their favoured position and it’s not rocket science that you won’t get the same performance as in their favoured position.

 

[Jig1234]

Can someone tell me what exactly he did when he came on that was so impressive?

All I saw was him get the ball and try to pass it into the box, only for it to be cleared easily by an Arsenal player.

1. Stayed wide. Give the team width, something Sanchez was not doing at all.
2. Taking on his man, trying to make this happen, playing with risk.
3. Put in a few good crosses which lead to Fellaini hitting the post, a square ball to Smalling, who missed his kick
3. One-touch lay offs which allowed Young to overlap and get in behind.


But sure, focus on the few occasions he tried something when it didn't work.

 

[acnumber9]

He didn’t play on the left against Chelsea btw, he was up top with Lukaku and Sanchez in behind.

The point remains, play someone out of their favoured position and it’s not rocket science that you won’t get the same performance as in their favoured position.

Do people not say that’s his best position? How often did we see him on the right side in that game? The point is Mourinho has tried to find a way to get Martial and Sanchez in the same team several times. That is completely ignored in the pathetic melodrama about Martial.

 

[KM]

Thought he was quite average until the last five mins of the match where he really improved his crossing. Lovely cross for the Fellaini chance where he should've scored.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He didn’t play on the left against Chelsea btw, he was up top with Lukaku and Sanchez in behind.

The point remains, play someone out of their favoured position and it’s not rocket science that you won’t get the same performance as in their favoured position.

Hmmm @VanGaalEra...

Anthony Martial: “Anthony Martial: "I prefer to play as a centre forward, but it does not bother me to play out wide.”

 

[breakout67]

I don't care what Goldbridge says. Arsenal players and fans were shitting themselves when Martial came on and started to run at defenders. He is the only attacking player that we have that gets people off their seats. The game was boring but when he came on I was fixated to the TV. It's a shame that we don't value this talent on the forum.

95% of posters on here value his talent and want him to stay. Martial could have offers and assurances from big clubs like Juve and Bayern and he is rethinking his position.

If Martial has an offer from Bayern to be Ribery's long term replacement then the rational decision is to go there. Bayern are a massive club like United, and he will probably win a lot more titles there since we have to overcome the Man city problem.

According to RMC, he's rejected a new contract so we want him to stay but he is not so keen.

 

[jderbyshire]

1. Stayed wide. Give the team width, something Sanchez was not doing at all.
2. Taking on his man, trying to make this happen, playing with risk.
3. Put in a few good crosses which lead to Fellaini hitting the post, a square ball to Smalling, who missed his kick
3. One-touch lay offs which allowed Young to overlap and get in behind.


But sure, focus on the few occasions he tried something when it didn't work.

Thank you. It wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way - I was genuinely asking.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Hmmm @VanGaalEra...

Anthony Martial: “Anthony Martial: "I prefer to play as a centre forward, but it does not bother me to play out wide.”

I was referring to him being played on the right, was just correcting the other poster as to where he played in the Chelsea game.

My username has nothing to do with my opinions, find me one negative post I've made on Jose because my username is VanGaal.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Do people not say that’s his best position? How often did we see him on the right side in that game? The point is Mourinho has tried to find a way to get Martial and Sanchez in the same team several times. That is completely ignored in the pathetic melodrama about Martial.

Your missing the complete point being that players play better in their preferred positions.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Easy to see why Mourinho gets frustrated with him. He looks so slack in his movement and body language and he makes some seriously brainless decisions. I read somewhere on the Caf that the Lyon youth coaches said he was abnormally poor in his academic studies, and it's easy to imagine that the United staff thinks he lacks game intelligence.

But he's got so much talent when he gets the ball. A better manager than Mourinho (Ferguson, Guardiola) would surely be making better use of it.

 

[FrantikChicken]

Easy to see why Mourinho gets frustrated with him. He looks so slack in his movement and body language and he makes some seriously brainless decisions. I read somewhere on the Caf that the Lyon youth coaches said he was abnormally poor in his academic studies, and it's easy to imagine that the United staff thinks he lacks game intelligence.

But he's got so much talent when he gets the ball. A better manager than Mourinho (Ferguson, Guardiola) would surely be making better use of it.

Oh a post on the caf and imagination certainly mean it's true then.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Easy to see why Mourinho gets frustrated with him. He looks so slack in his movement and body language and he makes some seriously brainless decisions. I read somewhere on the Caf that the Lyon youth coaches said he was abnormally poor in his academic studies, and it's easy to imagine that the United staff thinks he lacks game intelligence.

But he's got so much talent when he gets the ball. A better manager than Mourinho (Ferguson, Guardiola) would surely be making better use of it.

So were Einstein and Rainman.

 

[JohnnyKills]

So were Einstein and Rainman.

True! Just speculating to be honest, although the Caf post came from a well-informed source.

 

[kr0nix]

Easy to see why Mourinho gets frustrated with him. He looks so slack in his movement and body language and he makes some seriously brainless decisions. I read somewhere on the Caf that the Lyon youth coaches said he was abnormally poor in his academic studies, and it's easy to imagine that the United staff thinks he lacks game intelligence.

But he's got so much talent when he gets the ball. A better manager than Mourinho (Ferguson, Guardiola) would surely be making better use of it.

Would love to see a source for this.

 

[JPRouve]

Easy to see why Mourinho gets frustrated with him. He looks so slack in his movement and body language and he makes some seriously brainless decisions. I read somewhere on the Caf that the Lyon youth coaches said he was abnormally poor in his academic studies, and it's easy to imagine that the United staff thinks he lacks game intelligence.

But he's got so much talent when he gets the ball. A better manager than Mourinho (Ferguson, Guardiola) would surely be making better use of it.

I think that it's important to mitigate that. Gerard Bonneau has a slightly different pov, apparently Martial didn't go to Clairefontaine because his grades weren't good but at Lyon while he wasn't academically good, he wasn't terrible and he has always shown a great attitude in the classroom. Also you really shouldn't make a parallel between intelligence and academic results particularly in sports, just take someone like Ribery who was bad at school and intelligent on the field and in general, it has been a debate in France where we know that a fair amount of players have below par academic results mainly due to a lack of effort.

 

[Grande]

I think that it's important to mitigate that. Gerard Bonneau has a slightly different pov, apparently Martial didn't go to Clairefontaine because his grades weren't good but at Lyon while he wasn't academically good, he wasn't terrible and he has always shown a great attitude in the classroom. Also you really shouldn't make a parallel between intelligence and academic results particularly in sports, just take someone like Ribery who was bad at school and intelligent on the field and in general, it has been a debate in France where we know that a fair amount of players have below par academic results mainly due to a lack of effort.

Entirely true.

What is of more relevance is how often his lack of movement and positioning leads to games passing him by, how few ideas he has despite having the tools to execute far more ideas than for instance Lingard, and how relatively dependent he has been on being used in a particular way to be effective, both for United and France. (Haven’t seen much of him for Monaco). It makes me speculate that his creativity and game intelligence isn’t too high. I think it’s clear that Rashford, Lingard or McTominay, given Martial’s touch, ball controll at speed, and precision in delivery, would assert themselves far more on most games by now than Martial is able to.

Again, if that’s his strengths and weaknesses, it does not make him an ideal Mourinho player, he would suit Guardialo better I believe, and that’s not to say that Guardiola (who couldn’t use Zlatan) is better at utilizing players.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I think that it's important to mitigate that. Gerard Bonneau has a slightly different pov, apparently Martial didn't go to Clairefontaine because his grades weren't good but at Lyon while he wasn't academically good, he wasn't terrible and he has always shown a great attitude in the classroom. Also you really shouldn't make a parallel between intelligence and academic results particularly in sports, just take someone like Ribery who was bad at school and intelligent on the field and in general, it has been a debate in France where we know that a fair amount of players have below par academic results mainly due to a lack of effort.

Fair post mate. Cheers for the insight as well.

 

[JPRouve]

Entirely true.

What is of more relevance is how often his lack of movement and positioning leads to games passing him by, how few ideas he has despite having the tools to execute far more ideas than for instance Lingard, and how relatively dependent he has been on being used in a particular way to be effective, both for United and France. (Haven’t seen much of him for Monaco). It makes me speculate that his creativity and game intelligence isn’t too high. I think it’s clear that Rashford, Lingard or McTominay, given Martial’s touch, ball controll at speed, and precision in delivery, would assert themselves far more on most games by now than Martial is able to.

Again, if that’s his strengths and weaknesses, it does not make him an ideal Mourinho player, he would suit Guardialo better I believe, and that’s not to say that Guardiola (who couldn’t use Zlatan) is better at utilizing players.

Listening to all his coaches since he is 12 years old, they all say the same things. He is extremely focused on scoring goals to the point where his defensive contribution and movement might instinctively be lacking but all of them also say that it was easy to make him do it by just pushing him a little bit and being behind him, he won't mind it because he is a team oriented player. The other points that they all mention is his demeanour, he is extremely relaxed and simple, he handles pressure without problem, they all specify that he is not nonchalant, he is just very calm and quiet.

 

[Cassidy]

Listening to all his coaches since he is 12 years old, they all say the same things. He is extremely focused on scoring goals to the point where his defensive contribution and movement might instinctively be lacking but all of them also say that it was easy to make him do it by just pushing him a little bit and being behind him, he won't mind it because he is a team oriented player. The other points that they all mention is his demeanour, he is extremely relaxed and simple, he handles pressure without problem, they all specify that he is not nonchalant, he is just very calm and quite.

I really feel like we're missing a trick with him, we should try to make him on of our main goal getters and allow him to play in this way, even if that means he players as a rotation option for Lukaku. He seems like one of the most composed and complete finishers in the squad.

Pretty much what I see from him, in terms of his character, don't understand why people say he isn't bothered. He certainly handled alot of the pressure put on his in his first season very well.

 

[acnumber9]

Your missing the complete point being that players play better in their preferred positions.

You used a hyperbolic statement because your point was so weak. The equivalent would be Matic playing the right sided midfield position. Which he has done with no complaint. Mata isn’t chained to the right flank when he plays there, Lingard isn’t and neither was Martial.

 

[crossy1686]

I really feel like we're missing a trick with him, we should try to make him on of our main goal getters and allow him to play in this way, even if that means he players as a rotation option for Lukaku. He seems like one of the most composed and complete finishers in the squad.

Pretty much what I see from him, in terms of his character, don't understand why people say he isn't bothered. He certainly handled alot of the pressure put on his in his first season very well.

Suspect we'll sign another winger in the summer and rotate Lukaku and Martial as our CF's. He's not good enough to play out wide unfortunately, he's too predictable and gives the ball away too easily, we saw that again yesterday.

 

[whatwha]

Easy to see why Mourinho gets frustrated with him. He looks so slack in his movement and body language and he makes some seriously brainless decisions. I read somewhere on the Caf that the Lyon youth coaches said he was abnormally poor in his academic studies, and it's easy to imagine that the United staff thinks he lacks game intelligence.

But he's got so much talent when he gets the ball. A better manager than Mourinho (Ferguson, Guardiola) would surely be making better use of it.

Really... That's interesting. Where did you read that about his academic studies?

 

[Water Melon]

Listening to all his coaches since he is 12 years old, they all say the same things. He is extremely focused on scoring goals to the point where his defensive contribution and movement might instinctively be lacking but all of them also say that it was easy to make him do it by just pushing him a little bit and being behind him, he won't mind it because he is a team oriented player. The other points that they all mention is his demeanour, he is extremely relaxed and simple, he handles pressure without problem, they all specify that he is not nonchalant, he is just very calm and quite.

Merci beaucoup for the insight.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My username has nothing to do with my opinions, find me one negative post I've made on Jose because my username is VanGaal.

Qué?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My username has nothing to do with my opinions, find me one negative post I've made on Jose because my username is VanGaal.

Qué?

 

[VanGaalEra]

[QUOTE="VanGaalEra, post: 22473679, member: 90429".
My username has nothing to do with my opinions, find me one negative post I've made on Jose because my username is VanGaal.

Qué?[/QUOTE]

Realised I misread what you meant, apologies

 

[Kearnkoff69]

Someone's got to work with him on his decision making off the dribble. Too many times yesterday he had the defender right where he wanted him - running at him full tilt, defender backpedaling - and he failed to take advantage. He is always looking to cut in on his right foot, which makes him easy to defend. He had so many opportunities yesterday to fake right and go to the left and he would have burned the fullback, but he didn't do it once. One of the things that makes a player like Hazard so dangerous is that he keeps his movement unpredictable so the defender has to respect his cuts and fakes, and it makes beating players 1v1 much easier. Some players have that innate sense of how to do that, others have to have it coached into them.

 

[Grande]

I really feel like we're missing a trick with him, we should try to make him on of our main goal getters and allow him to play in this way, even if that means he players as a rotation option for Lukaku. He seems like one of the most composed and complete finishers in the squad.

Pretty much what I see from him, in terms of his character, don't understand why people say he isn't bothered. He certainly handled alot of the pressure put on his in his first season very well.

In tune with @JPRouve but I think also with myself, I don’t believe he is lazy or lackluster at all. But neither do I see in him the affinity for analyzing the game for what it needs from him, which is somthing you’ll need playing for Mourinho, as he wants his players to be proactive problem solvers. Martial ends up being passive and marked out unless he is being set up in his favored positions by coach and teammates, or told where to position himself.

He’ll work home no problem if he’s told, as he’s shown several times, and he xan stay wide or tuck in, but it seems like figuring out when he should stay back and when stay up, when he should stay wide and when tuck in is not his strength.

 

[JPRouve]

In tune with @JPRouve but I think also with myself, I don’t believe he is lazy or lackluster at all. But neither do I see in him the affinity for analyzing the game for what it needs from him, which is somthing you’ll need playing for Mourinho, as he wants his players to be proactive problem solvers. Martial ends up being passive and marked out unless he is being set up in his favored positions by coach and teammates, or told where to position himself.

He’ll work home no problem if he’s told, as he’s shown several times, and he xan stay wide or tuck in, but it seems like figuring out when he should stay back and when stay up, when he should stay wide and when tuck in is not his strength.

Yup, I agree with that. That was my biggest worry when he joined United, I thought that he needed to play week in week out for a coach good at developing these traits and Jardim seemed like a good fit. I'm bothered by the fact that he didn't significantly improve under LVG but he was put in a comfort zone by LVG who was focused on getting results more than anything else. Also the reason, I'm not too harsh on Martial is because I have seen a lot of players with the same problems at the same age, two of the current best french players, Ribery and Griezmann, weren't better in terms of movement or decision making at 22 years old. It was reported that Simeone specifically worked on that during Griezmann's first months.

 

[El-Manos]

Thought he was quite average until the last five mins of the match where he really improved his crossing. Lovely cross for the Fellaini chance where he should've scored.

Created another great chance for Smalling who sadly misfired.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Really... That's interesting. Where did you read that about his academic studies?

It was a post on the Caf ages ago. @JPRouve has provided some clarification today - he was the guy who posted the original insight I believe.

 

[JohnnyKills]

In tune with @JPRouve but I think also with myself, I don’t believe he is lazy or lackluster at all. But neither do I see in him the affinity for analyzing the game for what it needs from him, which is somthing you’ll need playing for Mourinho, as he wants his players to be proactive problem solvers. Martial ends up being passive and marked out unless he is being set up in his favored positions by coach and teammates, or told where to position himself.

He’ll work home no problem if he’s told, as he’s shown several times, and he xan stay wide or tuck in, but it seems like figuring out when he should stay back and when stay up, when he should stay wide and when tuck in is not his strength.

Agreed.

 

[Santoryo]

Ok calm down

To be honest there is nothing to laugh about. Either you're going by reputation or just seeing then play thus season. Martial still has better performances for us on the left than Sanchez has shown. Let's not kid ourselves the latter has had 2 good games so far for us since coming in, so nothing absurd in suggesting that Martial has been better than him this season which quite frankly I'm inclined to believe.

Unless you prove his claim wrong with something I don't see how laughable his opinion was. I mean has Sanchez done anything better than Martial on the left since coming in? First part of the season Martial was one of our best player.

 

[Aint gota Kalou]

Does anyone else think he should be tried upfront? Always preferred him on the left under LVG but I think he's more physical and holds the ball better than Rashford, which is something we're used to getting from Lukaku.

 

[clarkydaz]

Does anyone else think he should be tried upfront? Always preferred him on the left under LVG but I think he's more physical and holds the ball better than Rashford, which is something we're used to getting from Lukaku.

would love to see it but wont happen under Jose when Lukaku is his striker. He happily runs his main guys into the ground

 

[Sayros]

Entirely true.

What is of more relevance is how often his lack of movement and positioning leads to games passing him by, how few ideas he has despite having the tools to execute far more ideas than for instance Lingard, and how relatively dependent he has been on being used in a particular way to be effective, both for United and France. (Haven’t seen much of him for Monaco). It makes me speculate that his creativity and game intelligence isn’t too high. I think it’s clear that Rashford, Lingard or McTominay, given Martial’s touch, ball controll at speed, and precision in delivery, would assert themselves far more on most games by now than Martial is able to.

Again, if that’s his strengths and weaknesses, it does not make him an ideal Mourinho player, he would suit Guardialo better I believe, and that’s not to say that Guardiola (who couldn’t use Zlatan) is better at utilizing players.

Rashford hasn't shown any superior level of football IQ to make that assumption. He makes as many, if not more, boneheaded decisions. Also, if I had Martial's touch and ball control at speed, maybe I would be a professional footballer. None of the names you mentioned have his touch or his talent. You can talk about the motor if you want, but motor with very little end product ends up maybe looking better but not doing feck all about the end result. Martial, at least, has made improvements this season where even if he had a poor game (like the rest of the team often), he would still produce something, whether it was an assist/goal or a chance on a platter that wasn't finished.

He is so polarizing, it's really fascinating to read some of the comments on this thread. Nevermind the fact that most teams would want him in their club, there are some who act as if he should be grateful to get the treatment he's gotten this season once Sanchez arrived (who has had a much poorer season than Martial, whether it was pre or post transfer). There is a very strong support for him (Martial FC) and an equally strong dislike for the support he's getting, not necessarily the player himself although he frustrates a lot as well. I think he's got one foot out the door, though. Living in Manchester can be bearable if you have the support of your coach and are playing week-in, week-out. However, if it's to be a player who gets benched for every excuse imaginable while the rest of the team is allowed to play through their bad patch, and he's likely to not make the world cup squad at this rate, then why would he want to stay?

I don't think him starting the next few matches will change anything, perhaps the damage is already done at this point. If he winds up going to the world cup, and has a frank talk with Mou, then there's a chance he'll stick around.

 

[dabeast]

Us buying Sanchez seems like a defensive move - Sanchez in this year's Guardiola side would be absolutely unstoppable. It was a move for today but it sacrificed the essence of Utd and it extinguished hope

Fast, thrilling wingers who we see grow up (through the good times and bad) and get better are what we (certainly I) want to see at Man Utd. If Sanchez does well next year and we win the league I will be happy but if Rashford or Martial progress and win the Ballon D'Or I will be ecstatic.

Life as a football fan must have ups and downs to be really fun. It was only because of the dominance of the Mourinho Chelsea teams of 2005 and 2006 that the emergence of Ronaldo/Rooney and the subsequent Utd dominance was so sweet. SAF and, maybe, Wenger are the only coaches who were secure enough to have the vision to see past losing currently to evertually winning.

I hope City's dominance this year sparks a similar renaissance.