He looks like the creative midfielder England are crying out for therefore it is destiny that he will switch to Portugal.
Angel Gomes
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He looks like the creative midfielder England are crying out for therefore it is destiny that he will switch to Portugal.
Let's hope so, he's better off playing for Portugal.
Why?
I think it would be better for his developement considering they are a more technical football nation. Also, he wouldn't be subjected to the English media, who loves to scapegoat a United player playing for England.
He's not playing for our U23's yet. Lets cool the Portugal vs England talks for now 
He should do what makes him happy. I don't buy that playing in the Portugal national team will make him a better player for United. We will have to agree to disagree.
He's probably got more chance of international success with Portugal.
His is a product of English football anyway and where did C Ronaldo become the best player in the world?
My opinion is that it won't make any difference to his development at all.
Playing for Manchester United and Portugal.
It was Fergie who made him efficient. When he came from a Portuguese education he had no tactical sense at all.
Gomes already shows extremely high levels of tactical and technical ability.
I disagree, but your position is understandable considering you're English. I think he'll be better off playing for the Portugal NT, but that's a long time away still.
Ferguson is an average tactician. Hiring Queiroz and Meulensteen improved our record in Europe quite considerably.
I thnk he will be better of playing for the team he wants to, England or Portugal. I just don't see any extra development by way of benefit to United from him playing for the Portuguese NT specifically.
It is a fair point. Really he just needed to be more direct and less self indulgent.
In my opinion it has more to do with the shitness of the England NT, rather then Portugal specifically though
In my opinion it has more to do with the shitness of the England NT, rather then Portugal specifically though
So it harmed us with all the English players we have had in recent times then? Rio, Scholes, Carrick, Neville etc etc etc?
He was born in Enfield, has lived in England his entire life and captains England at underage level, it's extremely unlikely that he'll decide to play for Portugal.
This old chestnut. News to me that you can win domestic league titlew while being an "average tactician". Are tactics irrelevant in English football?
The arrival of Queroz and Muelensteen coincided with the emergence of Ronaldo and Rooney. You can't attribute Euroean success to the former two, without taking into account the influence of these two players.
Would you consider Ranieri's system to be ground breaking or revolutionary?
Ferguson is an excellent motivator and organiser; he is excels at man management and his adaptability is one of his biggest strengths.
There are many aspects to football management. He just so happens to be an average tactical and was exposed in Europe for many years.
Who do you think helped create the counter attacking system that enabled Ronaldo to score 42 goals? Those two.
How dare people not think Ferguson was a 10/10 in every department.
Dude, let it go.
I think you're dead wrong to call Fergie an "average tactician". Tactics are too important in football for anyone who is anything other than an extremely competent tactician to achieve the success that Fergie achieved. Happy to agree to disagree though. Can't be arsed getting into a lengthy discussion about this. Especially in thread about Angel Gomes.
We were counter-attacking like that for well over a decade before either of them came along.
He's far from playing at national team level so I'm not sure why this is such a discussion.
Let's just hope the development continues and he can appear for the U23s rather late this season or next season. I just hope Joyce doesn't refrain from picking him due to his size as was pretty much the case with Daehli.
Let's just hope the development continues and he can appear for the U23s rather late this season or next season. I just hope Joyce doesn't refrain from picking him due to his size as was pretty much the case with Daehli.
Average tactician but the best man-manager in the history of English football. Queiroz and Rene proved by their failure in management that being a good ciach doesn't make you a manager. The debt owed to SAF by Ronaldo for improving him as player and person is enormous
Fergie wasnt the best tactician but calling him average is just plain stupid, he achieved great things in football before and after Quieroz and Rene. But its unbelievable how much credit can the latter one get, dont get me wrong i really like the guy because he did wonders for our academy but giving him big credit for first team achievements in Europe, i mean come on....
This
Queiroz has been a successful manager though?
Right, and being a great man manager doesn't make you a great tactician.
Queiroz helped Ronaldo settle in. His fellow countryman. Ruud hated the special treatment he received.
Ferguson was smart enough to bring in the right people to help improve his weaknesses. Which there is nothing wrong with.
Sooooo..... Angel Gomes...
Nope. When did you see Giggs utilised like Ronaldo?
Two up front and dangerous balls into the box by Beckham is basically what occurred during The Treble win.
You wouldn't have seen Yorke used as a wide forward like Rooney was.
I think people forget just how tactically diverse we became from 2006 onwards.
Come in here thinking there were proper updates on Angel Gomes, and it's just a random debate on SAF.
When is this beast gonna be unleashed in the first team? I can't wait to see him and Chong get debuts. Might be a bit early for them...
Come in here thinking there were proper updates on Angel Gomes, and it's just a random debate on SAF.
Same. You shouldn't be allowed to bump this thread except with new videos/gifs.
Domestically. We struggled in Europe. When Wenger and Mourinho came, he wasn't as dominant until he reacted by bringing in coaches with a different perspective and different methods. Mourinho really changed English football with his preferred 4-3-3 and training methods. Ferguson rose to the challenge by gradually building a team for the future.
As for Meulensteen, we reached 3 Champions League finals, one semi final, and one quarter final during his 6 years with the first team from 2007. Coincidence? People can believe what they like. I agree with his thoughts on the final against Barcelona in 2009. We didn't start with our best technicians; Berbatov, Scholes and Tevez all on the bench. 20 year old Anderson flopped spectacularly and Giggs was 35. Easier said in hindsight, but we needed to retain possession better.
But anyway, maybe someone should move these posts to a different thread.
Ah the old, "all we used to do was get it wide and whip it into the box" myth. Go back and look at some of our goals in the mid-90s, e.g:
We could counter-attack as fluidly as any time with Rooney and Ronaldo:
Basically we could play any number of ways. Giggs wasn't used in the same way Ronaldo was because he was an entirely different kind of player. Likewise Yorke and Rooney. But the main thing our 2008 team shared with our double-winners of 1994 and our treble-winners was the ability to mix it up as required by the occasion.
I agree Ferguson was tactically naive in Europe after our 1999 success, and perhaps Quiroz had something to do with our tightening it up at the back. But our counter-attacking impulse was with us long before.
Any chance he'll get called up for a league cup fixture this season? I haven't seen academy matches but hear he's a level above everyone else.
No. The hype machine is just finding them younger and younger each year. He's two years away from being ready for a senior run-out yet.
I'm not interested in what we did domestically in a then overrated league that was hyped by Sky Sports and shoved down the average fan's thoat.
La Liga and especially Serie A were far superior leagues at the time and Ajax were still a force. My point is that we were shown up in Europe against better coached teams with superior tactical nous.
Well look at it this way - we won the Cup Winner's Cup, a very respectable competition at the time, vs. Cruyff's Barcelona in 1991.
Our Champion's League campaigns of 1993 and 1994 were severely hampered by the foreigners rule. Once that was gone, it took us three years back in the competition to win it, having reached the quarter and semi-finals in the two previous seasons.
Agreed that after 1999 we should have moved to a more sophisticated system, away from the 2-up-front model. But in any case, my initial remark was on your point about counter-attacking, as if it was something pioneered at United by Quiroz when, clearly, we'd been using it as an effective weapon for years in the PL.
I thought this is about Angel Gomes? I don't want to be the 'off-topic police' but...
OK. You won't address direct questions pertaining to your theory.
Back to Gomes.
Playing for England this evening
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