Clearly been overhyped.
If he was half as good as he’s made out to be he wouldn’t of ended up at Boavista.
If he was half as good as he’s made out to be he wouldn’t of ended up at Boavista.
Angel Gomes (United confirm departure)
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If they guaranteed him a starting place then you can't argue with him leaving really.
Ole mentioned this when we gave him the last offer last month, I reckon he has been ill advised....
In one way I didn't want to lose a promising kid, but I'd say we have done really well in this matter.
In one way I didn't want to lose a promising kid, but I'd say we have done really well in this matter.
Gomes is no Pogba. The few chances he got to play under Ole he didn’t seem like a player ready to break through, both physically and mentally. He must not think of himself as being good enough or capable to break into the first team. Whatever you say about Lindgard and Pereira as footballers, at least they have the mentality to work hard and fight it out. Without such mentality, talent is useless.
This has panned out roughly to par.
A good natural talent with less impressive athletic qualities and unproven mentality.
He valued himself higher than we did and took a chance that he would get better offers.
There weren’t many takers but he’s gone to a top-flight French club (equivalent to a bottom half EPL team, perhaps).
Neither us nor Gomez need to take any hammering for this. Both parties knew he is a talent but both doubted he would make it here. And whilst being loaned to Boavista is rather inauspicious, he’s got to get his career started ffs.
A good natural talent with less impressive athletic qualities and unproven mentality.
He valued himself higher than we did and took a chance that he would get better offers.
There weren’t many takers but he’s gone to a top-flight French club (equivalent to a bottom half EPL team, perhaps).
Neither us nor Gomez need to take any hammering for this. Both parties knew he is a talent but both doubted he would make it here. And whilst being loaned to Boavista is rather inauspicious, he’s got to get his career started ffs.
Caf's far less complimentary about the kid's abilities now that he's 'betrayed' us 
I400 minute is not sitting in the stands. He had some niggling injuries, which caused him to miss games. They were nothing major, but because of that they were careful with his handling. After Ole was appointed, he was training with the first team, and was later basically promoted to the first team. When given a chance he was poor and did not look ready, hence the lack of game time. If he was good enough, he would have got more time.
He was not dominating matches, just looked very good at that level, but not like he was taking the piss at that level. Still, because of his good performances he was promoted to the first team. He just could not produce the same for the first team. The goal was probably to have him train with the first team and eventually to makes the step up and adjust to the men's game. Unfortunately it did not happen for him.
Hence he was wrong, as he was not ready for a loan back then.
It does in Gomes's case. He was well used to u23s level without being exceptional, but not yet ready for first team level.
We don't loan players to poor clubs, but there are no guarantees that loans work out everytime. It is the same for all clubs, not just us, there are no guarantees. Some clubs have partnership's with other clubs, but that does not automatically mean good development for the player.
He was not too good for the u23s 18 months ago, which is why his reps are wrong. He was very good, but not to the level that he had outgrown it completely. There are plenty of players who look good for the u23s, but then fail to make that step up to first team level.
No, we won't loan players who are running out of contract and have only a few months left, as even a decent loan would then give his reps to put ridiculous demands.
He was not ready to be loaned out 18 months ago, hence his reps are wrong. We did not loan him back then as he was not ready for a loan back then. We should have loaned him in January when he still was poor and we brought Bruno. But by then he was running out of contract.
If he had signed he would have been loaned out by now. And no, he was not sitting in the stands. He was promoted to the first team and training with them, given a chance to break through to the first team. He just was not good enough to force his way through.
Except they have.
They were expecting big offers, they just never came. That was in the papers, I am just saying the things that were in it. Nothing made up by me. It is why many in this thread were surprised when no news was coming of who he signed for, as the papers were really painting it as a big loss for us for a coveted player.
We have as much track record as most clubs. Some loans work, some don't. No, a loan to a related club does not mean that it is a better loan, that is just your misconception. Even if the owner is the same, it does not mean that the team he is going to will be suited to his development.
I am not making anything up, there were reports in the papers that they were expecting clubs like Barcelona to be interested in him, but later it was reported they were only interested in signing him for the B team.
No, I am saying that he was not ready 18 months ago, but he should have been loaned in January when we got Bruno, as he was still not good enough for the first team. With only six months left in his contract, we were not going to loan him then
Neither the owners or a DOF can guarantee his development. All of what you mentioned is irrelevant, as we have just as much reputation developing talent, yet that is also irrelevant as every player is unique, and what they need to develop, is also different for every individual.
He would have got a loan here as well, in the end the result is not that different. Just that he would have bigger wages here probably.
It seems odd that he decided the leave United to sign for a new club with an immediate loan. I'd have imagined staying at United and getting a loan would have been a better overall deal for him. I see some posts claiming Lille will guarantee him playing time, but surely that has to be conditional and based on him doing well on loan. Anyway, it wasn't meant to be for him and United, so I wish him all the best.
A player has the right to pick what he thinks it's best for his career.
We're biased because we think that the club knows best, but we're not the ones whose career is literally being affected by it. What's best for his career might not be what's best for the club and yet you've posters slamming him for being greedy/egoistic when all he's doing is giving himself the best chance to succeed by going to a club which is more suited for his development.
Our club has blocked him from going out on loan twice in the past 18 months, why the feck would he want to risk signing another contract only to find himself stuck behind Bruno/Mata/Lingard/Peirara and whoever we sign in the transfer window.
I wish him all the best and hope his gamble on himself pays off.
We're biased because we think that the club knows best, but we're not the ones whose career is literally being affected by it. What's best for his career might not be what's best for the club and yet you've posters slamming him for being greedy/egoistic when all he's doing is giving himself the best chance to succeed by going to a club which is more suited for his development.
Our club has blocked him from going out on loan twice in the past 18 months, why the feck would he want to risk signing another contract only to find himself stuck behind Bruno/Mata/Lingard/Peirara and whoever we sign in the transfer window.
I wish him all the best and hope his gamble on himself pays off.
Marcus Edwards who left Spurs is a similar player in terms of stature/ability and he has done very well in Portugal this season, to the point where it's likely that he will be picked up by either one of the big two over there or another established side somewhere else in Europe. It's generally going to be the case with smaller players that they take a little longer and some patience is needed, just because they haven't hit the big time at 20 doesn't mean they won't at some point in the future. I think one issue with Gomes is people still aren't entirely sure where he fits into a team in terms of position, it's easy to look at him and say #10 but I've actually always preferred him playing deeper - but then how many 5'5ish centre mids do you see? Not many. Kante, Verratti and Torreira are about the only ones I can think of playing at the top but they're very different players to Gomes.
Fair play to him for giving continental football a go. Might learn a lot about himself and develop as a player with less pressure than at most of the English clubs. Will be interested to see how he gets on
I had a dream about him yesterday, stepped up take a pen in the FA Cup final and... scored!
We'll miss him
We'll miss him
Why do we loan him if he didn’t sign the contract? You sign the fecking contract then we will loan you out. Simple as that.
If you threaten to damage a player's career in an attempt to get him to sign a contract, don't be surprised if that doesn't build trust.
Indeed.
I see a lot of similarities to Seb Giovinco. He was probably more talented than Gomes even, but in the end he ended up at a lower level after leaving Juve.
Actually he was only poor when played out wide (which unfortunately was the majority of his first team opportunities). The two times he played centrally he was actually quite good, in fact he was probably our best player in his only start.
He's barely played any games at any level. Yes part of that was injuries, but he also missed quite a few youth games because he was with the first team and then proceeded to sit on the bench or in the stands. While it's nice to be training and travelling with the first team it doesn't replace actually playing games.
You, and apparently the club, think he wasn't ready for a loan 18 months ago (although I have a vague recollection that we kept him for squad depth rather than thinking he wasn't ready). Obviously he thought he was. Hence why he wanted to go on loan, wasn't allowed to and proceeded to play a total of 6 matches in the second half of that season in the youth team. He is well within his right to think that he would have been better off going off on loan to a club (perhaps like Boavista) and playing 15-20 matches instead. We'll never know who was right, but with him believing that of course he's going to be annoyed with how things have gone the last two seasons. It's not a reason for some of our fans to get all pissy at him when he decides to take matters into his own hands and drops down the leagues to get that gametime. Good luck to him.
I read that he is the son of a Portuguese player and godfathered by Nani and thus has some natural connections to his choice going to Portugal. Might be his family and him see some other trajectory for his career. Ole hinted as much about him being advised by people close to him steering him away from signing. Best of luck to him on his choice even though they don't make that much sense from the outside atm, sad to see him go as he was with the club since 6 years of age.
Apologies to bump this thread but shouldn't the admins lock this thread. Angel has already left the club.
Ole doesn't rate him enough, i would leave as well. Instead of going to a top/good club and sitting on the bench, he goes a step or two backwards. Boavista is just to get first team football and experience a full season at senior level. Then he will have a better chance at Lille. If he makes it there, he will be at a good club again and all the doors will be open for him. Look at where good players from Lille end up, there is a clear path for him, if he impresses and plays well.
It doesnt matter where he plays if he is talented enough. He will make it either way at the end of the day.
No club ever loans a player out when they’re in their final year of contract. You’re effectively allowing them to run their contract down away from the club where they leave the moment their loan is finished.
Lille & Boavista are both good clubs in good leagues. I'd take that deal if I was him. If he puts him good performances, then he'll get the attention and the plaudits from the right people.
Plus I hear Porto is a nice city and very cheap to live in.
Plus I hear Porto is a nice city and very cheap to live in.
A £20-25k/week contract isn't a bad indicator that he is rated enough?
United rate him (Nicky Butt specifically), but i haven't seen or heard anything from Ole or the coaching staff. The talk was always about protecting Mason and how good he is etc, even Chong got more attention. As i said, i would leave as well. It wasnt hard to predict he would leave as soon as the start of the season, when some youngsters were in the squad while he was left out after a great pre season. even there he didn't get as many minutes as Chong, and even though he completely outshone him and partially impressed more than Mason in some games as well.
Who was his competition? Lingard, Mata and Pereira. Tells you all.
He may or may not turn out to be a great player, but his decision to leave United was absolutely justified from my point of view. Some United fans with red glasses on may disagree, but i believe he did the right thing.
Getting a bit tired of everyone feeling like taking the piss out of Gomes in every other thread about transfers, Chong and so on. And I don't even particularly rate Gomes that highly.
He's actually taken a quite wise move. Especially if his physicality would be a challenge in the most physical league in the world. Not to mention all those he'd have to beat out for a chance to start with us in the coming years.
If he went on loan in the Championship he'd probably get knocked about even more. (Plus he was denied a loan move to a PL club this January.)
Owners of Lille also owns Boavista, they are starting something new there, similar to how Red Bull Salzburg and Red Bull Leipzig is run. So Boavista has an incentive to develop him for Lille.
After all those rainy years in Manchester he gets to chill for a year in sunny Portgual while getting gametime probably every week.
If he does things well he goes back to Lille probably after a year to feature in their team where he gets to play European football since Lille tends to finish top4 every year. A great showcase window for him.
He turns 20 at the end of this month. Even if he does a year on loan, and stays with Lille for 2 or 3 years later he'll still only be 23-24 when he's ready to move on to a bigger team in Europe.
For him specifically all things considered, this seems like a great move.
He's actually taken a quite wise move. Especially if his physicality would be a challenge in the most physical league in the world. Not to mention all those he'd have to beat out for a chance to start with us in the coming years.
If he went on loan in the Championship he'd probably get knocked about even more. (Plus he was denied a loan move to a PL club this January.)
Owners of Lille also owns Boavista, they are starting something new there, similar to how Red Bull Salzburg and Red Bull Leipzig is run. So Boavista has an incentive to develop him for Lille.
After all those rainy years in Manchester he gets to chill for a year in sunny Portgual while getting gametime probably every week.
If he does things well he goes back to Lille probably after a year to feature in their team where he gets to play European football since Lille tends to finish top4 every year. A great showcase window for him.
He turns 20 at the end of this month. Even if he does a year on loan, and stays with Lille for 2 or 3 years later he'll still only be 23-24 when he's ready to move on to a bigger team in Europe.
For him specifically all things considered, this seems like a great move.
Thanks for the feedback. Does sound interesting for him.
But that could have been the exact same situation if he'd stayed here and gotten a loan to Portugal. I just think of all the things you can level at United in recent years, one of the areas we've patently excelled in is giving young players the platform to develop into established footballers either here (the dream obviously) or elsewhere in the top flight.
But, but he went to Lille who have a (mid-table) feeder club in Portugal, so his development is assured, don't you know?
Good luck to him. I think he’d go the path of Januzaj (i.e disappearing into mediocrity after a few years)
I hope not. I wish he could become a super star. He was good enough to captain the best English youth team ever. I hope he makes the grade to show that talent over size is more relevant
But it's not exactly the same.
A club like Boavista does not have the same incentive to play him every week and develop him for us as they do for Lille.
And then when he's back at Lille he should have an easier path into the First XI for regular league games since the French League is not as physical as the Prem, and especially with his (lack of) height in mind, this would likely be beneficial for him.
Regular league games increases chances of playing Champions League and so on.
It could also be that he's realized he will struggle to play well in the Prem even when fully developed, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of young talent being sold out of Prem for reasonable prices, so it would be easier for him to move on from Lille than from us.
Angel has a good base of skills
elite first touch
can lead a break as the ball sticks to his feet
Great vision
I would say he needs to improve on becoming a goal scoring threat. His striking technique is poor, but he can curl them. Apart from that, at first team level he needs to improve his decision making. Not that he makes bad decisions at all, more so that he needs to learn to be more direct, but still maintain his composure.
I think he's the type of attacking midfielder that can play the pivot unlike say some of our past youth #10s Januzaj, Rashford, and Greenwood. So if he can't affect the match quite like you would want, I think he can become the pivot just like Nicky Butt said.
elite first touch
can lead a break as the ball sticks to his feet
Great vision
I would say he needs to improve on becoming a goal scoring threat. His striking technique is poor, but he can curl them. Apart from that, at first team level he needs to improve his decision making. Not that he makes bad decisions at all, more so that he needs to learn to be more direct, but still maintain his composure.
I think he's the type of attacking midfielder that can play the pivot unlike say some of our past youth #10s Januzaj, Rashford, and Greenwood. So if he can't affect the match quite like you would want, I think he can become the pivot just like Nicky Butt said.
For years people have been saying that he'll struggle significantly in the premier league with his size, reports are Ole said the same to Gomes himself, and he's been held back while the two players he's long been compared with in the English teams develop at the first team level (Foden at City and obviously Sancho has exploded at Dortmund). Is it really that surprising that he took that on board and decided he'd be better off leaving England (and therefore us)?
I could be wrong, but it feels like many of the same people who were saying that his size was going to hold him back are now the ones complaining the most that he left. It's strange.
Not at all. I'm taking umbrage with the view that his development at Boavista is assured because they have the same owners as Lille. They're a mediocre team in a mediocre league but suddenly some people are experts on how good they are at young player development.
People assume that he will be given the chance to play the majority of games as it's for the best for them and their link to Lille. Nothing in life is certain but it's a pretty good assumption.
Unless Boavista suddenly don't give a damn about their own results and have accepted that they are nothing but a farm team for Lille, it's not a safe assumption that playing Gomes is the best thing for them. That sort of attitude can see them relegated. A team has to do what's best for them, not a sister club.
I think leaving United was a poor choice considering the offer that was on the table for him but at the same time I never saw what the fuss was about based on his appearances in the first team, so I'm not fussed that he left on a free.
That said, we'll all have a clear view on how he's doing there.
Not to raise your hopes up, but maybe he'll do a Pogba and return back here.I had a dream about him yesterday, stepped up take a pen in the FA Cup final and... scored!
We'll miss him
I absolutely don't expect at all Pogba is back pre-season 16/17 and he did.
If he's significantly worse than their other options then of course they'll ultimately drop him. But of course he's backing himself to get into their first team and stay there. The exact same thing could be said if we loaned him out, except now there is extra motivation for the club to play him.
If he's significantly worse than Boavista's other options then obviously he would never have made it here so why would he sign with us anyway?
Arrogant to call Real Sociedad mediocrity. Pre covid they were doing better than us and are in the final of the cup which has yet to be played.
I have to admit the whole transfer is bizarre. In one way I feel sorry for him. If he has asked to be loaned out and we haven’t allowed him to I can understand his frustration. However I can’t help feeling it’s greedy agents getting involved, thinking they could get a crazy salary for their client who has very little first team football. His agents have done a terrible job in my view. There should have been better clubs than Lille looking at him. And then for him to be loaned to Boavista. Even if the two clubs have links it doesn’t look good for him.
I suspect he has been held back by us because of the English obsession with a player’s size. Had he come through Barcelona’s youth system his outcome may have been different.
I suspect he has been held back by us because of the English obsession with a player’s size. Had he come through Barcelona’s youth system his outcome may have been different.
The obsession with size is less prevalent nowadays, wouldn’t you say? He’s little but he’s been playing with our first team and don’t think he was held back for size.
There’s no way Barca would have promoted him through any quicker than we tried to do it. His skills were highly praised by us and we gave him a few tastes of first team (for which he was not ready but he got a few minutes anyway). We were developing him the right way but he was not yet at a physical level (you don’t have to be big but you need some strength and athleticism) to play in our league but also not in Spain and, guess what, not even in France.
I think you are right he was badly advised but he shouldn’t have listened to the hype coming from his own camp.
But then he’s just a young lad. We all wish him well and if he gets games in Portugal we’ll start to find out more about him.
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