You're absolutely correct, but it would be wise to start shopping for potential buyers if he doesn't look like a WC player next season, the good thing about Chelsea is that they know when to cut their losses and get a good amount for players, we can easily get another influential midfield player.
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You're absolutely correct, but it would be wise to start shopping for potential buyers if he doesn't look like a WC player next season, the good thing about Chelsea is that they know when to cut their losses and get a good amount for players, we can easily get another influential midfield player.
To be honest, I think it's the usual thing. When Ronaldo was at United, people talked about Rooney sacrificing himself to help Ronaldo, and if only that burden was removed Rooney would be liberated to become a Ballon D'Or candidate, then it was Ozil, last year it was Di Maria. Di Maria is being expected to inspire, create, amuse, and score but he isn't that player.
The trouble with the adaptation argument is that he really was better in his earlier matches.
Just inconsistent then? Yes, if he's supposed to be the main man. That's not him, he's not a big goalscorer and he seems anxious under the burden of being the main creative force. I think he's been given some rules by LvG, but all those rules are doing right now are making him hesitant and that extra time he's spending thinking is costing him the chance to do anything.
For Ancelotti, he learned to be the ball carrier from defence to attack, to take over Ronaldo's wing when Ronaldo pulled inside, to take over Marcelo's position or even Bale's. It became very fluid, very fast, very efficient. His best play for them was, odd as it may sound, the middle third of the pitch.
I suspect LvG's rules give him freedom in the final third, but are stricter in the middle third. I think he's trying to learn how to do it. I don't believe the stuff about him not trying, or not wanting to be here. If he hits form, I reckon he'll suddenly be very happy to play for us. I don't know if he can do the job that LvG wants, but if he can then I think it's just a matter of patience, he needs to understand and trust his teammates to get it right.
The trouble with the adaptation argument is that he really was better in his earlier matches.
Just inconsistent then? Yes, if he's supposed to be the main man. That's not him, he's not a big goalscorer and he seems anxious under the burden of being the main creative force. I think he's been given some rules by LvG, but all those rules are doing right now are making him hesitant and that extra time he's spending thinking is costing him the chance to do anything.
For Ancelotti, he learned to be the ball carrier from defence to attack, to take over Ronaldo's wing when Ronaldo pulled inside, to take over Marcelo's position or even Bale's. It became very fluid, very fast, very efficient. His best play for them was, odd as it may sound, the middle third of the pitch.
I suspect LvG's rules give him freedom in the final third, but are stricter in the middle third. I think he's trying to learn how to do it. I don't believe the stuff about him not trying, or not wanting to be here. If he hits form, I reckon he'll suddenly be very happy to play for us. I don't know if he can do the job that LvG wants, but if he can then I think it's just a matter of patience, he needs to understand and trust his teammates to get it right.
Agreed with everything here. When ADM gets in the final third he does seem to try too hard. His passes are too hard or often miss the mark. As with all creative players he gets frustrated by failing. He needs to slow down and trust his colleagues more, but I think LVG could influence things here. Ander has helped but Rooney could be a lot more supportive and in doing so improve his game.
I guess it also doesn't help that he's being made to provide for strikers, who are nowhere near the top of their own games.
He's been getting an easy ride from the media, that's for sure.
Well because at least he never hides unlike a certain ...
Well because at least he never hides unlike a certain ...
Recycling the ball = hiding, apparently. Hardly Ozil's fault no one moves for him, and once again Ramsey is out whilst Walcott is getting back to full-fitness.
The media were unfairly ruthless on him after his excellent start, yet they're not laying into di Maria, who cost much more and came in with a bigger reputation.
FWIW I think he'll come good, just like Ozil is (though he's had to bulk up, which I think ADM will have to do as well.
They've both come from the same team which is used to dominating opponents, and the players only have a handful of games each season where they are required to actually fight it out. I think for both it's been a big wake-up call to play against teams that constantly fight and try to bully them - so it's no surprise that players like Costa and Sanchez (fighters) have adapted so quickly.
I was half joking, I don't even think Özil has been that bad.
But in the PL a quick explosive player like Di Maria (or even Rooney although he is not that quick anymore), basically players who seem to be involved a lot even if they don't do useful stuff at times just get more credit than players like Özil or Mata.
Even Bale got much more credit for his grand total of 1 great season at Spurs than for example Silva ever has despite consistently being among PL's best players.
Regarding Di Maria I am not worried, he is a quality player and players don't turn shite over night, he'll come good once he (and LvG) adapt a bit more.
I wonder if Di Maria is believing his own hype a bit? As in he feels he can do everything himself because of his giant transfer fee and World XI shit? Just a thought...
What makes you think that ?
A few things... from simple stuff to him taking corners and, more importantly, free-kicks in shooting range (has he ever done this at any club before? What makes him think he's so good at them... because he's clearly terrible at them)... to stuff around his overall play - he seems to hang onto the ball a lot longer then I remember seeing for Madrid/Argentina (but then they do play a faster brand of football), the crazy number of flicks/back-heels, and always trying to play the perfect pass, when a more simple/accurate one will do (see 2 vs. 1 attack with him and Falcao on Saturday).
It's just a theory... probably bollocks... but still.
Ozil gets stick because he plays 'luxurious' football. ADM even when is playing shit looks like he is trying and people love to see that.
I get this feeling as well. I don't remember him taking as many shots for Madrid.
It's a possibility.
Of course, all the stuff you mention there also negates this idea that he's playing far too conservatively under strict instructions from the manager. The opposite, if anything.
He did took a huge amount of stupid shots, it's just Di Maria, he dribbles too much, he tries flicks when he shouldn't, he takes free kicks when Ronaldo or Xabi Alonso don't.
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They are dumbfounded, scratching their head and asking the same question as we are: Where is he?
I wasn't aware that that's an idea people had? Nothing about him would leave me to believe he's playing it conservative... regardless of whether he's believing in his own hype or not.
It's one of an array of excuses being trotted out to try and blame other people for Di Maria not playing very well.
You could be right, but here is my take on it.
- The one 2vs1 situation the other day - It was a wrong pass rather than the perfect pass. The perfect pass was to Young. I just think he was having a bad day, and didnt see Young.
- He hangs on to the ball more because no one else in our team actually carries the ball apart from him or Adnan. He is taking a lot of abuse for being the only one in the team willing to try things but I think LVG has given him some sort creative freedom. To me, He has created more chances for the team than anyone else. He should have 4/5 assists from RVP alone.
- Corners/Freekicks - I agree Rooney should really take all or most of them. And whatever happened to RVP taking our corners? It was one of those weird nice surprises about him in 12/13.
- Flicks/backheels - Its the type of player he is. When he was flowing and it was coming off no one was complaining.
Because at Madrid you had Ronaldo taking 10 shots per game or something. And even Bale loves a pop. Who else at United tries to shoot that often? No one. I still can't believe how little Rooney shoots given the ability he has at long range.
I agree
When on the field, Mata should be taking all our free kicks. Of course, one wonders when we are going to see Mata on the field again (as a starter, not as a last-minute sub.)
Particularly, I think, why he might not be happy. That seems to be the context I see it raised in. Van Gaal is stifling him, therefore he is unhappy and a bit disinterested - and therefore perhaps not playing well. But its certainly been raised as a more direct relationship as well, didnt that Herrera interview last week suggest he was having to adjust his game to suit Van Gaal's system?
The point being, though, there's zero evidence on the pitch of him playing in an inhibited, cautious way. So either the manager is allowing him to take risks or he's actively going against instructions he's been given. Either way the poor performances are down to him and him alone.
Yes. Well, that and the weather of course.
I think the opposite is true though. That there is a leniency with Di Maria that there isn't with others. Players are definitely for the most part more cautious that you'd associate with them, they're not expressing themselves as much. Last year Hazard made a comment about the impact of holding all the creative burden and responsibility, I think it was when Chelsea were knocked out of the Champions League. I think the same could be true here.
I think at the start of the year we played with more freedom of expression generally, which allowed for Di Maria to bounce his creativity off others. The same was true for a few of our other players (Herrera). I think possession has become even more desired since the Leicester loss and our players have had to play within themselves since, bar Di Maria. Di Maria is an instinctual player, and that comes far easier in a fluid team. A more labored and controlled approach encourages thinking time - which doesn't suit Di Maria.
I like how you blame everything on LVG. We know you don't like him but Christ, this is now taking it too far. LVG has always been a BIG fan of attacking wide men right from his Ajax days, players like Robben and Ribery excelled under him. You do realize that Young and Januzaj had the beaten of the fullbacks all day long right? Di Maria needs to pull his finger and sort out himself. If you actually don't know jack-shit about what principles Van Gaal wants in a winger you might actually just give us all a break or do some reading.
Every player thread I go into is about the same stuff - 'damn hes good but its a shame he dont fit in. Good player, wrong club' etc
Well that's certainly a new slant on why Di Maria's poor performances are not really Di Maria's fault but I'm not really convinced.
I can't shake the feeling that we overpaid (massively) for a very talented but perennially inconsistent and unreliable player off the back of one good season where a few excellent performances in big games inflated his reputation out of all proportion to his abilities. What we're seeing at United is the same Di Maria that frustrated Madrid and Argentina fans for the vast majority of his career so far. Compounded by his struggles to adapt to a more physical league (and grim manc weather)
It's comforting to think it's all the managers fault and Di Maria will look like a 60m player as soon as he works out how best to use him. I don't see it myself though. Really bugs me that we seem to have squeezed out Nani to replace him with a player that shares so many of his flaws, at tremendous fecking expense. I think last summer will go down as one of the most cack-handed transfer windows in the history of this club.
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I hope this doesn't become another case of Kagawa where it's everything and everyone else fault when he doesn't perform. When I look at players' performances, I judge them by the basic things they do and decide if it's the system/manager or if its the player itself. We broke away with Di Maria, Falcao goes right with a player on his tail, Young is totally free on the left, I mean, do you need a manager or a system to actually tell you the right thing to do in this situation? The only plausible excuse for him is that he's in a new team and a new league and maybe he's getting used to things here, trying to adapt. I don't buy this shit about his position or the system when he can't make simple decisions with any accuracy.
Ridiculous to keep blaming the manager for his terrible performances. None of you were blaming Ferguson when Nani served up shit like this.
That was infuriating. And absolutely feck all to do with Van Gaal.
I totally lost it at that point.
As you already said, when we watched Nani make hare-brained decisions like that how many people blamed Fergie for not knowing how to use him?
His crossing was atrocious! He's overpriced in FPL as well.
Well, the money doesn't really make much difference here though. If you look past the numbers, his performances would still be disappointing had he been 20m based on his reputation alone - even if he came the year before I think. Last season was easily his most consistent, and the ones before might have fluctuated alot but not to the extent of this season. Infact, you could argue he's been fairly consistent. Really good for a while, then poor. Burnley he was decent but besides that it's been either a fairly gradual decline, or simply a ton of mostly equally poor games but with the faith and leniency offered gradually dwindling.
The whole 'managers fault' bit is fair. But I don't subscribe to that thinking either. Sometimes players and systems just don't fit, and won't fit. I get that it's a 'managers job to get the best out of players' bla bla but ultimately it's their job to get the best out of the collective. And unfortunately we've done better results wise since becoming more controlled than at the start of the season where Di Maria looked great.
I don't think it's a permanent issue with the club or the league either, past the usual new surroundings and settling in lark. I'm confident that in the future we'll see some more expansive football that Di Maria can shine in. He'll still have some shite games, 'cause that's the type of player he is. But that'll be because flair is generally inconsistent and frustrating, it doesn't always pay off rather than a player who looks somewhat lost and isn't playing on instinct. He's thinking too much, trying too hard, it's clear to see. As for the league, @jojojo made a point earlier that his early games render that point moot (I think?). However, settling into the league is as much about the long term rigorous nature than some honeymoon period of fixtures. It's not going to help things, but it won't last..
Ultimately there's a combination of mitigating factors, which definitely serve up as a good excuse. Whether they're the true cause or whether Di Maria can bypass them it's too early to tell either way.
Anyone got a gif/video of that moment?
Wow! At last, someone who knows what they are talking about re Di Maria, especially this bolded bit! Why can't LVG see this though? Jojojo for manager!!
I don't think that early form renders the adaption argument moot. Sometimes the footballing cliches ring true. There's a big difference between ripping up cannon fodder on a summer afternoon at OT and repeating those peformances on a cold Tuesday night in mid-winter (against Stoke, or anyone else!)
You obviously see his point, though, as per your comment re "honeymoon fixtures".
I also think the fans are much kinder when it comes to a new signings first few games. Getting all giddy about every trick or flick and ignoring the poor decisions or sloppy bits of play that would infuriate as the season wears on. I mean, he was very good in a few of those opening games but rarely for 90 minutes and never without at least some poor passages of play too. He also seemed to have luck on his side in those game, when he could woefully shank a shot at goal, only for it to end up as a pin-point "cross" (which accounts for at least two of his assists this season)
Not to mention that he actually has put in some very good performances more recently too. Just not been able to sustain them.
This is true. But there's a huge contradiction here. Fans are moaning about how United are playing at a slow tempo, that players aren't expressing themselves, that players are playing a controlled game and not 'trying' things. Yet find it infuriating when a player gets things wrong.
Obviously there's a line to be drawn and it's somewhere in the middle of trying nothing and failing everything. But it does seem a tad unfair. I mean, has Ronaldo re-defined the winger role so much that people are far more interested in the effective but predictable wingers now? Only Robben has really nailed that too besides Ronaldo, and only recently. His first few seasons at Bayern were still rife with inconsistency and frustration. It's just the nature of the type of player to me, I expect it.
Right now Di Maria isn't struggling and getting stuff wrong because it's his nature I agree. But at the start of the season I felt it was more than fair enough that he got praised and had some of his fortune largely ignored.
This sort of mindset seems to have moved into the crowd. They ask for teams to attack, but then groan when a long run of possession ends. I get it - they wanted quicker football and more risks taken, and it's frustrating as hell to see us keep the ball for ages and then eventually create nothing or have it summed up with something tame. However, the groans don't get this message across, instead they just add to the players hesitancy when trying things. It's like Arsenal syndrome, I'm surprised how quickly it seems to be happening to our fans. It just creates an air of tension which can't be comfortable for the players, which likely won't allow them to fully express themselves.
There's no arguing his ability, LvG has to find a way to get him to perform whether its down to his instructions or a disinterested player. That's a managers job.
We've brought in 3 players for huge fees and LvG hasn't found a way to make any of them provide significant contributions.
We've brought in 3 players for huge fees and LvG hasn't found a way to make any of them provide significant contributions.
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