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2021-22 Performances

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So he's back


Edit

Oh he's not United's Instagram account was just wishing him happy returns for his birthday
 
Hasn't the Brazilian football season ended already? How long was his loan for?
Ideally we should know soon if Flamengo will make his move permanent.
 
dinostar77 said:
One of these players we need to cut our losses on and let go on free.
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Why?

Surely offering him about for a low fee would be the best solution. The problem with United is we are trying to get a good fee for everyone.
 
Some websites are saying he's reached a verbal agreement for a 4-year contract with Flamengo. ~£26k/week.
Transfer fee yet to be agreed upon.
 
26k/week is still a decent wage to get by in this world. Let's sort out the transfer fee quickly and get this done.

A shame Pereira didn't develop as we all hoped. He's still a superior footballer on the ball to Fred and McTominay, but he doesn't have the physical presence they have. If Donny can't be given a chance at Old Trafford then Andreas should be allowed nowhere near Greater Manchester.
 
Globo (Brazilian newspaper) says Flamengo have offered €8m to sign him.

EDIT: ESPN Brazil saying the bid was £8.35m (€10m), and was rejected.
"The report claims that the Red Devils don’t even consider that offer to be close to what they want"
 
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Uniquim said:
Globo (Brazilian newspaper) says Flamengo have offered €8m to sign him.

EDIT: ESPN Brazil saying the bid was £8.35m (€10m), and was rejected.
"The report claims that the Red Devils don’t even consider that offer to be close to what they want"
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Can't be true. As I said in the post before, what does he do now? Is he on vacation? United would surely sell him for that fee!
 
We are never getting more than 8m.

He's never going to play if he comes back and we'd end up just loaning him back out.
 
Mickson said:
Can't be true. As I said in the post before, what does he do now? Is he on vacation? United would surely sell him for that fee!
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Sure it can be true. We did the same thing with Lingard.
Andreas is still in Brazil afaik. He's on loan until summer.
Article said Flamengo wants to sign him now to avoid being 'held hostage' in the summer, and compromising the team by losing a player they want to keep mid-season.
They'll start looking at alternatives if there's no deal to be had.

Pereira's United contract runs until 2023 +1-year option.

Bwuk said:
We are never getting more than 8m.

He's never going to play if he comes back and we'd end up just loaning him back out.
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I agree with both of y'all about selling. We should take the deal, esp. if €10m was offered.
Andreas wants to make the national team, and he's been playing well at Flamengo. He's stated he wants to stay at Flamengo too.

But then again, the agreed fee when we loaned him out was €20m, so in that view, it makes sense to want more than half of that from the club's perspective.
I think €10m is quite close to the pain limit for Flamengo, I think they could potentially stretch to 12-13, but they have other positions to fill too.
 
Mickson said:
Can't be true. As I said in the post before, what does he do now? Is he on vacation? United would surely sell him for that fee!
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We spent years chasing fantasy prices for Darmian. I can see us rejecting the bid. Nothing about the past nine years makes you think we'd see sense and get shot. We always hold out thinking someone else will come in for more.
 
#07 said:
We spent years chasing fantasy prices for Darmian. I can see us rejecting the bid. Nothing about the past nine years makes you think we'd see sense and get shot. We always hold out thinking someone else will come in for more.
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This all has to do with accounting. Players are counted as assets on our books.

For example, we sign Player X for £50m on a 5 year contract. For simplicity sake, let's assume that the club desides to amortize the cost equally among the length of the contract. So, each year Player X counts as £10m in our assets column.
If we loan the player out, these £10m need to be taken out. Of course, we will get the agreed part of his wages off our books and if we get a fee, that will also be added to our assets as money, but unless the total deal is equal or greater to Player X's accounting value as asset for the club, there is a big risk that such a loan transfer will end up being accounting loss.

And I don't need to tell you how losses are treated by shareholders and financial markets...
 
georgipep said:
This all has to do with accounting. Players are counted as assets on our books.

For example, we sign Player X for £50m on a 5 year contract. For simplicity sake, let's assume that the club desides to amortize the cost equally among the length of the contract. So, each year Player X counts as £10m in our assets column.
If we loan the player out, these £10m need to be taken out. Of course, we will get the agreed part of his wages off our books and if we get a fee, that will also be added to our assets as money, but unless the total deal is equal or greater to Player X's accounting value as asset for the club, there is a big risk that such a loan transfer will end up being accounting loss.

And I don't need to tell you how losses are treated by shareholders and financial markets...
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Will the markets react to us getting rid of a player who's contract is ending next year? The cost of his contract has been accounted for. It's value was at its height in its first year. Now..? Whatever accounting value there is in Andreas could be easily offset by boosting someone else's wages.

In the summer a lot of players are likely to leave, they won't be replaced. I think you are overplaying how much we are managing the club to the markets. I don't believe United has much short term debt to finance. Plus the Glazers own most of the shares and they don't give a damn that the value of the club plateaued awhile back.

I think what's really at play here is the club got criticised for the Van Gaal firesale. So now they try to eek out every penny to avoid getting criticised for losing good players for peanuts.
 
L1nk said:
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This is a weird one because I believe its illegal to have this kind of shared ownership in the UK.

I think, in practice, what this means is Flamengo has agreed to buy Andreas for a fee of €10.5m euros. The spin is that this is equivalent to only 75 per cent of what United value him at and, in time, with clauses etc., United might get up to €14m euros for Andreas. However, the reality is the money bankable is €10.5m euros. Which, in my opinion, is still a surprisingly good fee.
 
#07 said:
This is a weird one because I believe its illegal to have this kind of shared ownership in the UK.

I think, in practice, what this means is Flamengo has agreed to buy Andreas for a fee of €10.5m euros. The spin is that this is equivalent to only 75 per cent of what United value him at and, in time, with clauses etc., United might get up to €14m euros for Andreas. However, the reality is the money bankable is €10.5m euros. Which, in my opinion, is still a surprisingly good fee.
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In Christinaa's excellent Press Gossip thread, there's a link to an article about it. Unfortunately I can't post links, but would be good news if it's a reliable source.
 
#07 said:
This is a weird one because I believe its illegal to have this kind of shared ownership in the UK.

I think, in practice, what this means is Flamengo has agreed to buy Andreas for a fee of €10.5m euros. The spin is that this is equivalent to only 75 per cent of what United value him at and, in time, with clauses etc., United might get up to €14m euros for Andreas. However, the reality is the money bankable is €10.5m euros. Which, in my opinion, is still a surprisingly good fee.
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Probably a 25% sell on clause for United.
 
#07 said:
This is a weird one because I believe its illegal to have this kind of shared ownership in the UK.

I think, in practice, what this means is Flamengo has agreed to buy Andreas for a fee of €10.5m euros. The spin is that this is equivalent to only 75 per cent of what United value him at and, in time, with clauses etc., United might get up to €14m euros for Andreas. However, the reality is the money bankable is €10.5m euros. Which, in my opinion, is still a surprisingly good fee.
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Most of the time when transfer fees are reported this way in South America, it means the selling club retain the income of a future sale.
Which in a way means they own x% of the player still, or the 'economic rights'.
 
Whatever it is, we’re getting good money for him, and he’s happy and Flamengo are happy. Let’s get it done pronto and move on.
 
I thought that he was in similar situation with Lingard. Too high salary and running down the contract for sign on bonus with their next club.

And now someone actually willing to pay us 10 mil transfer fees. Get this done before Flamengo change their mind.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I thought that he was in similar situation with Lingard. Too high salary and running down the contract for sign on bonus with their next club.

And now someone actually willing to pay us 10 mil transfer fees. Get this done before Flamengo change their mind.
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In fairness he has another year and a bit to run on his contract
 
A good deal for Flamengo. Fully expect them to sell him on in a year or two for at least 15 million
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I thought that he was in similar situation with Lingard. Too high salary and running down the contract for sign on bonus with their next club.

And now someone actually willing to pay us 10 mil transfer fees. Get this done before Flamengo change their mind.
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What a shitty post

He's a 26 year old academy graduate and there is absolutely zero indication he wants to run down his contract.
 
Weird that we're holding clubs in Brazil to ransom for a transfer fee they most likely can't afford, for a player that isn't good enough for the PL. Just do everyone a favour and sell him for £5m as long as they give us first refusal on the next wonderkid coming out of their academy.
 
crossy1686 said:
Weird that we're holding clubs in Brazil to ransom for a transfer fee they most likely can't afford, for a player that isn't good enough for the PL. Just do everyone a favour and sell him for £5m as long as they give us first refusal on the next wonderkid coming out of their academy.
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Tbh, I agree with you to an extent, but Flamengo can afford him, even if the price is steeper than they would've wanted. Also, they had agreed to a much higher price for the option to buy, and that should make it more difficult for them to bring the price down.

Braz and co. are going to Portugal next trying to secure a deal for Everton Soares from Benfica, which could end up costing about the same as Andreas, possibly a bit more, and they're buying a club in Portugal to lend players as a way into Europe. With the £7.4m they got from selling Michael, I think they had ~£23-24m budget available before Andreas deal, having spent £1m on Marinho already. Flamengo are one of the few Brazilian clubs who've got their finances in order. They could look for players domestically, but they keep looking to Europe for a few signings every year.
 
crossy1686 said:
Weird that we're holding clubs in Brazil to ransom for a transfer fee they most likely can't afford, for a player that isn't good enough for the PL. Just do everyone a favour and sell him for £5m as long as they give us first refusal on the next wonderkid coming out of their academy.
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They obviously disagree with you and think they'll get the performances and any transfer fees back in the future.
 
I've given up on people understanding how negotiations work. I bet the same people were moaning about Martial not giving up half his salary at the start of the window.

I'm guessing Mark Goldshite is constantly criticizing the club when they don't get a deal done immediately? He's like Fox News. Poison for the brain.
 
VanDeBank said:
I've given up on people understanding how negotiations work. I bet the same people were moaning about Martial not giving up half his salary at the start of the window.

I'm guessing Mark Goldshite is constantly criticizing the club when they don't get a deal done immediately? He's like Fox News. Poison for the brain.
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I mean we are critical with club when it comes to selling players, the likes of Rojo & Darmian didn't fetch the club any fees.

But we can't also criticize the club when they try to negotiate and try to get a good fee for player under contract, for this case in particular, if reports are to be believed then I am happy to see the club getting a decent fee for AP.
 
VanDeBank said:
I've given up on people understanding how negotiations work. I bet the same people were moaning about Martial not giving up half his salary at the start of the window.

I'm guessing Mark Goldshite is constantly criticizing the club when they don't get a deal done immediately? He's like Fox News. Poison for the brain.
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I've honestly no problem with the club letting players who aren't good enough go for next to nothing, regardless of how much they cost or how long they have left on their deals. We're not a selling club anyway so we shouldn't be priding ourselves on getting a 'good fee' for players that aren't good enough to win trophies.

If anything, keeping these players on the books stops us from buying new players. It's like anything else, that pair of jeans you've still got, despite having a hole in them. Ah they're still good for painting in right? Or maybe for lounging around at home in. You'll make do with what you have until you're forced to buy a new pair, and it's the same attitude with these players "Ah they can still play in the League cup/Europa league, we'll make do". Just clear out instead.
 
crossy1686 said:
I've honestly no problem with the club letting players who aren't good enough go for next to nothing, regardless of how much they cost or how long they have left on their deals. We're not a selling club anyway so we shouldn't be priding ourselves on getting a 'good fee' for players that aren't good enough to win trophies.

If anything, keeping these players on the books stops us from buying new players. It's like anything else, that pair of jeans you've still got, despite having a hole in them. Ah they're still good for painting in right? Or maybe for lounging around at home in. You'll make do with what you have until you're forced to buy a new pair, and it's the same attitude with these players "Ah they can still play in the League cup/Europa league, we'll make do". Just clear out instead.
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I disagree, we could have gotten way better fees for a lot of players by selling them a year earlier instead of letting them rot on the bench for a half or full season.

I mean, Lingard is a great example. He's going for free and contributing next to nothing because our visionless manager wanted to keep instead of cashing 20-25 million.
Herrera was let go on a free as well. Could Martial have gotten an actual fee in the summer? Who knows. If Donny has no future he should've been going on loan in the summer to raise his value asap, etc, etc. Pogba leaving for free is is bizarre as well.

The big reason why we're the highest net spend in the last decade is because we don't sell properly, exceptions like Dan James aside.
I agree that letting go instead of handing out a new contract is better some times, but why put yourself in that position in the first place?
Let's not pretend like the Glazers hand the club unlimited transfer funds. If we'd sold better we'd have more money to spend.


ClubIncomingsSalesNet
Manchester United1.545470-1.075
Manchester City1.699715-984
Paris Saint-Germain1.445504-941
Barcelona1.630980-650
Arsenal1.029446-583
Juventus1.542981-561
AC Milan884452-432
Everton911482-429
Aston Villa701277-424
Chelsea1.6141.201-413
 
crossy1686 said:
I've honestly no problem with the club letting players who aren't good enough go for next to nothing, regardless of how much they cost or how long they have left on their deals. We're not a selling club anyway so we shouldn't be priding ourselves on getting a 'good fee' for players that aren't good enough to win trophies.

If anything, keeping these players on the books stops us from buying new players. It's like anything else, that pair of jeans you've still got, despite having a hole in them. Ah they're still good for painting in right? Or maybe for lounging around at home in. You'll make do with what you have until you're forced to buy a new pair, and it's the same attitude with these players "Ah they can still play in the League cup/Europa league, we'll make do". Just clear out instead.
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I strongly disagree with this, what kind of maniac lounges around the house in jeans???
 
VanDeBank said:
I disagree, we could have gotten way better fees for a lot of players by selling them a year earlier instead of letting them rot on the bench for a half or full season.

I mean, Lingard is a great example. He's going for free and contributing next to nothing because our visionless manager wanted to keep instead of cashing 20-25 million.
Herrera was let go on a free as well. Could Martial have gotten an actual fee in the summer? Who knows. If Donny has no future he should've been going on loan in the summer to raise his value asap, etc, etc. Pogba leaving for free is is bizarre as well.

The big reason why we're the highest net spend in the last decade is because we don't sell properly, exceptions like Dan James aside.
I agree that letting go instead of handing out a new contract is better some times, but why put yourself in that position in the first place?
Let's not pretend like the Glazers hand the club unlimited transfer funds. If we'd sold better we'd have more money to spend.


ClubIncomingsSalesNet
Manchester United1.545470-1.075
Manchester City1.699715-984
Paris Saint-Germain1.445504-941
Barcelona1.630980-650
Arsenal1.029446-583
Juventus1.542981-561
AC Milan884452-432
Everton911482-429
Aston Villa701277-424
Chelsea1.6141.201-413
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And that's what I'm saying also. Stop handing out stupid contracts, clear players out quicker and take whatever value we can get for them at the time, instead of loaning them out or benching them for years, which stops us from replacing them.
 
He might not have developed as we wanted him to be at United. But at least he didnt do anything controversial, wont be in jail and never asked for a time off when he was needed. He simply wanted to enjoy his football and have a good career just as everybody wants. I can respect that. Hopefully we will let him go.
 
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