I'm talking about the golden ball of the World Cup. Zidane won it inexplicably.
Andrea Pirlo announces retirement
- Thread starter RedDevil@84
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Long range passing, and a better dictator of the game imo.
There is no way Iniesta is a tier below Pirlo. Iniesta is a level above. Xavi dominated every midfield almost single handedly for 5+ years and it was unparalleled. He allwed Barcelona to operate very high up the pitch and he was the reason they weren't as susceptible to counters. Pirlo was moved in front of the defence because he was not effective as close to opposition box and needed more time. He was easier to mark out of games and when a man was put on him he was ineffective and did almost nothing. Xavi ran the most, brought the ball out of defence, dominated the centre and operated in tight spaces in the final 3rd. he was more press resistant, a far better controller, the best and most complete passer I have ever seen, could run a lot more, covered more ground, better final ball. Pirlo was better at FKs and perhaps corners but that's it. Xavi has arguably the best first touch I have ever seen and did it in areas where Pirlo would simply get dispossessed.
As for Iniesta being a tier below, not a chance. Iniesta Xavi are both equal to Zidane and perhaps better imo.
What? No he didn't. Xavi started truly dominating midfields when he had Iniesta and Senna/Busquest to help him. Before then he was still fantastic, but no way did he dominate. I do agree about your description of him though
Xavi never started close to the box either. He always got there as a result of team play. I agree he was better in those areas than Pirlo though, but Pirlo was also a very effective player in those areas when he got there as a result of team play
You're conflating his final years at juventus(when he was over 30) with his prime. Pirlo wasn't easily marked out of games in his prime, not even close. Trying to mark him out of games was actually a good way to ensure he'd tear you apart
Xavi was more dynamic(he didn't run more, he was faster). He was better in the final 3rd and had a better control and was better in tight spaces, but only just. Everything else just isn't true. Pirlo was better at set pieces and had a better shot from distance
Pirlo was still one of the best midfielders in the world in 2015, at 36. Xavi was pretty much done as a top midfielder at 33.
Agree that Iniesta is on the same level as those two
Disagree, strongly, about any one of them being on Zidane's level
Let's agree to disagree. Zidane for me is arguably one of the most ovverrated players in history. Depending on the team I would pick Xavi over Zidane every time. Iniesta and Zidane are very similar stylistically. So let's not even get into that.
Yea was referring more to his final years at Juve. Also it wasn't just, Xavi is arguably the most press resistant player in history. Xavi covered more ground and covered the most ground in almost every match he played in. The reason he couldn't play at Barcelona is because he couldn't move as well due to his reoccurring Achilles injury and he was never going to be a pivote as noone could displace Busquets. In Enriques system Pilro would have been on the bench as well.
This is not a slight on the great man btw. I just think Xavi is the best controller in the game at least in my lifetime. Pirlo was still an elite monster. Got robbed by Zidane hype and should have won the WC Golden Ball but Zidane's reputation as usual overshadowed his performance.
Pirlo in his prime was very press-resistant, he frequently carried the ball up the pitch, and covered a lot of ground. He just wasn't as effective as Xavi from open play. Pirlo was the better set piece taker though.
Xavi = Iniesta > Pirlo = Zidane
There isn't much between the two tiers though, I'm mostly splitting hairs.
Xavi = Iniesta > Pirlo = Zidane
There isn't much between the two tiers though, I'm mostly splitting hairs.
Man, figlio di puttana is the italian equivalent of son of a bitch.
Cagna and puttana are synonyms in this situation btw, just as they are in english(kind of)
Scholes is very accurate in long range passing. And on that alone could possibly match Pirlo, but the creativity of Pirlo’s long range passing is a different matter. Those curling over the top ball to the strikers from quarterback position are deadly, and not something I’ve seen scholes do regularly.
As for better dictators? Surely the Spanish and Italian National teams are more famed for dictating tempo, and Pirlo done that on the highest level for Italy.
So why nitpicking if they are synonyms in this situation? However I repeat, puttana is a whore, cagna is a bitch.
You Barca fans make me laugh with this one, Zidane was a player well above any of these undersized passers. Nit Picking is between Scholes, Xavi and Pirlo. Adding Zizou, a footballing god to the equation just shouldn't be done.
Don't disrespect Park Ji Sung like that.
Zidane's myth is something else.
Pirlo could influence a game just as much, and won just as much as Zidane did in his career. If the Zidane hype machine wasn't out of control, Pirlo would have rightfully won the golden ball in the 2006 World Cup.
I thought Cannavaro was comfortably the best player at the 2006 World Cup. The best World Cup defensive performance of all time for me, with a nod to Baresi in 1990. That said, I can see why a more attacking player won the award, especially one with such a latent reputation.
It's obviously a discussion to be had.
I don't really see any metric where Zidane stands ahead of Iniesta, other than not having to stand in Messi's shadow.
The consistency with which he could curl a ball over the defence into the running path of a wide player over 20-30 yards was just ridiculous.
Should have won the golden ball in 06 as well. Ran the show for Italy.
Should have won the golden ball in 06 as well. Ran the show for Italy.
Absolutely loved this farewell video from Juve.
Because the connotation of "son of a whore" in english is worse than "son of a bitch", while the insult itself in italian is usually more akin to the english "son of a bitch". In this specific case in particular, it should be translated as son of a bitch
(well technically, depends on the situation. It's actually a pretty serious insult in Italian when used against someone you don't know/are not familiar with. The kind that starts fights)
Again, prime. Pirlo's last 3 years at milan(after 2007) where a case-study for the effects of complete lack of motivation on top athletes(and it's true of several other milan players from that period)
Besides, once in a while it can happen. Ever Banega once absolutely dominated Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets by himself
Zizou should not be compared with Xavi, Iniesta or Pirlo and definitely not Scholes.
I love all five equally, but Zizou is something special, yes he is kinda overhyped, but if I was building a side, and had to choose from any of the above, I would select him.
I love all five equally, but Zizou is something special, yes he is kinda overhyped, but if I was building a side, and had to choose from any of the above, I would select him.
Really? Watch this
If you don't understand this tell me wich other player alone with 34 years old did this to a entire Brasilian NT in a WC.
Difficult to compare Zidane and Pirlo, different roles.
Scholes got shunted out to the left to accommodate Gerrard and Lampard in the centre, so it is difficult to dictate the game on the left. It is not his fault that the England national team has been mismanaged for years. Put Scholes in the Italy team instead of Pirlo and not much would change. In my opinion scholes was better but marginally. Xavi was not renowned for his creative long passes and is easily the best deep lying playmaker I have ever seen.
I would pick Xavi any day over Zidane. The over hype of that man is something else. People comparing him to Messi and Maradona make me laugh. Zidane is the definition of overblown myth. He would do a decent first touch and it would be a highlight reel or a dribble and people would go on about it for weeks. He was a player of moments I'll give you that. Not many times I agree with Rio but I share his opinion on Zidane.
well that is your opinion man, he may not have been Messi or Maradona, but he had a special thing about him, which Xavi despite being a far more consistent player never had. Not his fault, but we football fans live for moments and that stupid magic myth, which sadly Xavi never had.
Yes call me a romantic fool, but Zidane always over Xavi.
Fair enough.
Xavi said he’s retiring this year too. What a sad week even though both have been retired since 2015 effectively.
So let me get this straight...
Was Zidane even France's best player in 2006?
1st game against Switzerland. Man of the match , Makelele
2nd game vs South Korea, Man of the match ,Park Ji-Sung
3rd game vs Togo (without Zidane) Man of the match Patrick Vieira,
Round of 16 against Spain , Man of the match Patrick Vieira
Quarterfinal against Brazil, Man of the match Zinedine Zidane
Semifinal vs Portugal, Man of the match Lilian Thuram
Final vs Italy Man of the match Andrea Pirlo.
Zidane did not carry France national team to the final, his performances against South Korea and Switzerland wasn't that good, France had to win against Togo to advance the knockout stage, they beat Togo 2-0 without and Vieira saves the day. Zidane was good against Spain, but Ribery and Vieira, were better, Vieira was rightfully named Man of the match, His best game was vs Brazil, and maybe this game overhyped a bit his whole performance in the tournament.
Against Portugal, he had his worst appearance in the tournament, France beat 1-0 with that stupid penalty from Carvalho, Lilian Thuram was the MVP.
In the final, his best moment was the headbutt in extra time.
So...
Was Zidane the best French player in group stage ? No.
Was it Zidanes performances against Portugal and Spain that made the difference for France? No.
Where was Zidane creativity in the tournament ? 1 assist vs Brazil, created 3 clear chances for his team from open play,1 vs Korea, 1 against Spain, and perhaps 1 in the final.
Finally conclude. Zidane was not the sole reason France reached the WC final. And he was in no way the best player of the tournament. The MVP should have gone to Pirlo but Cannavaro was a close second. I can't believe what I read sometimes. He dribbles a player or takes a nice first touch then somehow he carried France. Ridiculous.
I forgot he dominated one of the worst put together Brazilian sides I have ever seen so he must be the best player.
Wasn't it Ferguson who once said give me Zidane and ten pieces of cardboard and i'll win the champions league ?
It was not really surprising that Gerard and Lampard got the centre roles, as at that time Scholes was not the midfield dictator we know in his latter years.
I can’t agree with that, Italy would not have build a team around scholes like they would for Pirlo. The former isn’t as talented. but to each his own I suppose.
Zidane was on a different level from Xavi and Iniesta. And i can't take a different opinion seriously, it's just ridiculous. Like saying the sky is bright pink
Yea I don't think he was. Only difference between Zidane and Iniesta is Iniesta was overshadowed by Messi and Zidane is not on Messi's level no matter which way you try to slice it. Zidane never played with any player operating in Messi's league.
Xavi is the best cm I have ever seen. If you match Zidane and him in terms of productiveness Zidane doesn't come close.
Were did you get people comparing Zidane to Messi? 
Were did you get people comparing Zidane to Messi?
The level above Xavi and Iniesta is Messi
No, in fact you got it all wrong.
I don't care if you think he was or not, that performance vs Brasil is Zidane.
Right, you know more than all the Brasilian players on the pitch.
That performance was only possible because he was a football artist, a true genius, keep up with your stats, I talk about football.
Really? So what? Cristiano had his best performance in that match, but his stats in World Cups are awfull in number of goals scored, I don't change my opinion about Zidane based in a match, or about Cristiano based in WC performances.
But you can check here Ronnie vs Zidane
Pupil vs Master
Don't care if he was or not, fact is we was the best player period. Ask Figo, Roberto Carlos, Beckham, Ronaldo Fenómeno, Raul, any former teammate at Juventus who was the best player?
Do you honestly believe Cannavaro or Pirlo were better players than Zidane? In another thread I mentioned Pirlo, Totti, Cannavaro were the best italian players of their generation, but Zidane is Zidane, the rest is history.
And comparing Zidane with Iniesta or Xavi
not even Fraudiola would say that. When I heard Zidane saying Cristiano was better than him I laughed too, don't worry, its not only Farcelona players being compared to Zidane who make me laugh.Seriously, better try to discuss football with Farcelona fans and give me a break honestly.
No, in fact you got it all wrong.
I don't care if you think he was or not, that performance vs Brasil is Zidane.
Right, you know more than all the Brasilian players on the pitch.
That performance was only possible because he was a football artist, a true genius, keep up with your stats, I talk about football.
Really? So what? Cristiano had his best performance in that match, but his stats in World Cups are awfull in number of goals scored, I don't change my opinion about Zidane based in a match, or about Cristiano based in WC performances.
But you can check here Ronnie vs Zidane
Pupil vs Master
Don't care if he was or not, fact is we was the best player period. Ask Figo, Roberto Carlos, Beckham, Ronaldo Fenómeno, Raul, any former teammate at Juventus who was the best player?
Do you honestly believe Cannavaro or Pirlo were better players than Zidane? In another thread I mentioned Pirlo, Totti, Cannavaro were the best italian players of their generation, but Zidane is Zidane, the rest is history.
And comparing Zidane with Iniesta or Xavi
Seriously, better try to discuss football with Farcelona fans and give me a break honestly.
Yup, there is clearly no need to discuss anything with a fan boy. One good performance against a shocking Brazil side made him the best player in the tournament when Pirlo was the best player in both the semis and the final. Yup...
Look lets agree to disagree ok?
Look lets agree to disagree ok?
Yup.
Pirlo is great, also Zidane too