Ander Herrera to PSG? | Gone.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sterling Archer said:
Probably the closest to an actual Captain on the team and most folks are talking about how really he'll be replaced...
Click to expand...

Yep. Its strange how leadership qualities are emphasized in the value of some players, but with Ander its ignored. Almost always runs his socks off, works hard for what the team needs not what makes him a flashy player (covering Pogba's defending etc), the way he conducts himself off the pitch - even when out of the team he talks so professionally and positively about the team and his teammates making the club look better. And even the way he has acted towards Sanchez this season, trying to bring him in and make him feel included.

These are all things you should want from a player but most dont have them.

Some people think that leadership is shouting at and shitting on your teammates like Keane did. Theres a reason he was stripped of the captaincy and let go on bad terms.
 
Snafu17 said:
There's about feck all chance he's getting "the Valencia treatment".
Click to expand...
Of course he isn't? Valencia was done, Herrera is still a good player. Ole is foolish if he is doing that. He was fecked over by Jose and now the club. Not great business as we are going to need yet another signing. Maybe more if Pogba goes as well. . At least we will see tomorrow if Paul Pogba is worthy of joining Real Madrid. If they had dealt with an extension when we won the EL and Ander was playing really well, we would not be in this mess, but Jose wanted Matic, which has not really improved us.
 
Snafu17 said:
There's about feck all chance he's getting "the Valencia treatment".
Click to expand...
The injury is just the official explanation. He got dropped from last week's squad. Nothing was reported before the game with injury.
 
Ekeke said:
Yep. Its strange how leadership qualities are emphasized in the value of some players, but with Ander its ignored. Almost always runs his socks off, works hard for what the team needs not what makes him a flashy player (covering Pogba's defending etc), the way he conducts himself off the pitch - even when out of the team he talks so professionally and positively about the team and his teammates making the club look better. And even the way he has acted towards Sanchez this season, trying to bring him in and make him feel included.

These are all things you should want from a player but most dont have them.

Some people think that leadership is shouting at and shitting on your teammates like Keane did. Theres a reason he was stripped of the captaincy and let go on bad terms.
Click to expand...

I agree with the majority of your post but your summary of Keane as a captain is extremely off. Through out his career at United he was an absolute superb captain. But you highlight only the end. He wasn't just criticising players, he was, like many have noted here before, normally the first one to celebrate players who scored or made positive impact. He simply kept standards up and gave everything on the pitch. Besides being a fantastic player.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Of course he isn't? Valencia was done, Herrera is still a good player. Ole is foolish if he is doing that. He was fecked over by Jose and now the club. Not great business as we are going to need yet another signing. Maybe more if Pogba goes as well. . At least we will see tomorrow if Paul Pogba is worthy of joining Real Madrid. If they had dealt with an extension when we won the EL and Ander was playing really well, we would not be in this mess, but Jose wanted Matic, which has not really improved us.
Click to expand...

Sorry but if Herrera wants to sign a pre-contract with another team but also keep his place in the United squad, he needs to give his head a wobble. He's not irreplaceable and Ole should persist with a player who wants to be at the club next season (and beyond).
 
abdo99 said:
The injury is just the official explanation. He got dropped from last week's squad. Nothing was reported before the game with injury.
Click to expand...
If it was the case then we are petty. Maybe Chelsea should drop Hazard for all the stupid statements he has come out with, Pogba's agent touting him all over the place. Ander contract is up. PSG got in touch, of course it will turn his head. It could be his last contract, but people will put up with Pogba, even though he has been nowhere near as productive as his price tag deserves and is never a captain in a million years.
 
Bastian said:
I agree with the majority of your post but your summary of Keane as a captain is extremely off. Through out his career at United he was an absolute superb captain. But you highlight only the end. He wasn't just criticising players, he was, like many have noted here before, normally the first one to celebrate players who scored or made positive impact. He simply kept standards up and gave everything on the pitch. Besides being a fantastic player.
Click to expand...

I wasnt saying he was a bad captain, I was saying that the "qualities" I often see people talk about as what we need from a captain, referring back to Keane, would not be positive.

Usually I see people talk about shouting at players when they arent perfect etc.

Not the fact that Keane himself put in some great performances leading by example, did a lot of dirty work winning the ball and covering for Scholes etc.

Thats the stuff that was great about Keane as captain.

The getting frustrated, pissed off and shouting at people when he's angry, or getting sent off for stupid things arent the things we miss. And its those things that led to him being kicked out and leaving on bad terms. There's a more composed and mature way to do business on and off the pitch
 
Adam-Utd said:
It's a shame if he does go, but he CAN be replaced. Workhorses are easier to find than creators like Pogba.

If he can go and get 200k of PSG then you can't really blame him, as he hasn't won any league titles in his career either.

He's reaching the point where he's still in his prime but might suddenly drop, and we don't want to be stuck on high wages with an aging player like usual.
Click to expand...
I have a very hard time fathoming that its about the wages for Herrera. He will command a hefty sign-on fee from PSG or if he resigns for United which will make his wages small in comparison. He will easily get a 20-25m sign-on fee if he does change club. Or he will get it from United if he stays. Its probably about the length of the contract more than anything else I would guess.
 
Ekeke said:
I wasnt saying he was a bad captain, I was saying that the "qualities" I often see people talk about as what we need from a captain, referring back to Keane, would not be positive.

Usually I see people talk about shouting at players when they arent perfect etc.

Not the fact that Keane himself put in some great performances leading by example, did a lot of dirty work winning the ball and covering for Scholes etc.

Thats the stuff that was great about Keane as captain.

The getting frustrated, pissed off and shouting at people when he's angry, or getting sent off for stupid things arent the things we miss. And its those things that led to him being kicked out and leaving on bad terms. There's a more composed and mature way to do business on and off the pitch
Click to expand...

Fair enough mate. What I mostly see people ask for (or maybe I'm just seeing opinions that echo mine) is a leader in terms of consistency and professionalism. No small ask, but we've not that had that since we had Evra, Rio and Vidic.
 
We need to get the wage bill under control. I hope Woodward stays hard on this and sends a message, we arent overpaying players anymore. Herrera can be replaced easily
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ekeke said:
And its those things that led to him being kicked out and leaving on bad terms.
Click to expand...

Partly, perhaps.

Fergie was ruthlessly pragmatic, though. The main reason why Keane was kicked out was - simply - that his level had dropped.

He turned into a very vocal, opinionated veteran who wasn't a force on the pitch anymore. Not a good combo, that. The former part (being vocal and opinionated), Fergie would've tolerated easily if Keane had still been a "top, top" player - but he just wasn't.

As for his general traits as captain, I think the angry, shouting, hard man image is inaccurate/exaggerated. If he'd been nothing but that, he would have been an unpopular teammate (not to mention a shit candidate for the captaincy) - and he wasn't that in general.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Of course he isn't? Valencia was done, Herrera is still a good player. Ole is foolish if he is doing that. He was fecked over by Jose and now the club. Not great business as we are going to need yet another signing. Maybe more if Pogba goes as well. . At least we will see tomorrow if Paul Pogba is worthy of joining Real Madrid. If they had dealt with an extension when we won the EL and Ander was playing really well, we would not be in this mess, but Jose wanted Matic, which has not really improved us.
Click to expand...

What the feck are you on about? He's not getting fecked over by the Club, its completely the opposite where he's asking for wages that are well beyond his ability otherwise he's leaving for a free.

Load of shite
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Partly, perhaps.

Fergie was ruthlessly pragmatic, though. The main reason why Keane was kicked out was - simply - that his level had dropped.

He turned into a very vocal, opinionated veteran who wasn't a force on the pitch anymore. Not a good combo, that. The former part (being vocal and opinionated), Fergie would've tolerated easily if Keane had still been a "top, top" player - but he just wasn't.

As for his general traits as captain, I think the angry, shouting, hard man image is inaccurate/exaggerated. If he'd been nothing but that, he would have been an unpopular teammate (not to mention a shit candidate for the captaincy) - and he wasn't that in general.
Click to expand...

Definitely not what he was as an athlete but still a very good player. I recently saw his opta stats from his last full season at United and his passes and tackles per game were impressive (great performances at Anfield and Highbury that year too). Your point is right in that Fergie knew he was coming to the end.

On topic, the board should have offered Herrera a new deal after the Europa League final but the following season he was dropped immediately in place of Matic and I think that spoilt his form the previous year. Matic certainly was more of a Jose player but I think it's harmed us in the long run.
 
Herrera is not going to be played at United if he's already decided to move to PSG. He might as well announce it if that's the case instead of this incessant speculation.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
If he's not committed to us then why should Ole play him?
Click to expand...

Because Pogba has been here since 2016 and its hard to fing a good performance from him without Ander on the pitch?

Its about the collective. Not about leaving 1 player out if it makes us much worse
 
Ramsey is off to Juve but has been brilliant every time I’ve seen him play this season.

It’s ironic that it’s Ander that is being discussed here. The one player that has supposedly always “got” United and loves this club.

The fact is that players have careers and do what is best for them, what’s best for Herrera right now has nothing to do with contracts and PSG, it’s a Champions League Quarter Final against Barcelona. That’s the first and last thing that’s will be on his mind.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
If he's not committed to us then why should Ole play him?
Click to expand...
Would you have dropped Ronaldo for the run-in in 2009? After all, by that time it was an open secret he would leave at the end of the season.

Ole should play the players who give us the best chance of achieving our goals this season.
 
Siorac said:
Would you have dropped Ronaldo for the run-in in 2009? After all, by that time it was an open secret he would leave at the end of the season.
Click to expand...
And what did he give us in the Champions League final, except of being stuck in Pique's pocket?
 
Ekeke said:
I wasnt saying he was a bad captain, I was saying that the "qualities" I often see people talk about as what we need from a captain, referring back to Keane, would not be positive.

Usually I see people talk about shouting at players when they arent perfect etc.

Not the fact that Keane himself put in some great performances leading by example, did a lot of dirty work winning the ball and covering for Scholes etc.

Thats the stuff that was great about Keane as captain.

The getting frustrated, pissed off and shouting at people when he's angry, or getting sent off for stupid things arent the things we miss. And its those things that led to him being kicked out and leaving on bad terms. There's a more composed and mature way to do business on and off the pitch
Click to expand...
I would take back that frustrated ,pissed off and shouting at people when he’s angry player in a heartbeat than having to look at “supposed leaders” that have worn the captains armb
 
tieunhilang said:
And what did he give us in the Champions League final, except of being stuck in Pique's pocket?
Click to expand...
That's not much of an argument. He was shit in the 2014 final, too, for example. Still would have been mental not to play him.

Then there's the small issue that without him we wouldn't have made the final.
 
Last edited:
Siorac said:
Would you have dropped Ronaldo for the run-in in 2009? After all, by that time it was an open secret he would leave at the end of the season.

Ole should play the players who give us the best chance of achieving our goals this season.
Click to expand...
Ronaldo was performing better (obviously) and more consistent, even if his form wasn't quite to the level of his previous season. It's not as if Herrera is playing brilliantly every week.
 
Judas said:
Ronaldo was performing better (obviously) and more consistent, even if his form wasn't quite to the level of his previous season. It's not as if Herrera is playing brilliantly every week.
Click to expand...

Just more weeks than 95% of the rest of the team
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Partly, perhaps.

Fergie was ruthlessly pragmatic, though. The main reason why Keane was kicked out was - simply - that his level had dropped.

He turned into a very vocal, opinionated veteran who wasn't a force on the pitch anymore. Not a good combo, that. The former part (being vocal and opinionated), Fergie would've tolerated easily if Keane had still been a "top, top" player - but he just wasn't.

As for his general traits as captain, I think the angry, shouting, hard man image is inaccurate/exaggerated. If he'd been nothing but that, he would have been an unpopular teammate (not to mention a shit candidate for the captaincy) - and he wasn't that in general.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Keane was the best Captain the PL has ever seen, from his leading by example to his berating of teammates who weren't performing. Nothing much had changed in his approach to being Captain over the years but it was impossible to enforce high standards so aggressively when he couldn't meet them himself anymore.

Anyway, I assume Herrera has gone if he's not even in the travelling squad anymore. So that's another key position we have to replace in the summer.
 
Judas said:
Ronaldo was performing better (obviously) and more consistent, even if his form wasn't quite to the level of his previous season. It's not as if Herrera is playing brilliantly every week.
Click to expand...
Yeah but the argument against playing Herrera should be about form, ability, suitability. Not being able to agree to a contract extension isn't an indication of lack of professionalism. We have no reason to think he would give anything less than his best; punishing him for seeing his future elsewhere would be needlessly petty and spiteful.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Partly, perhaps.

Fergie was ruthlessly pragmatic, though. The main reason why Keane was kicked out was - simply - that his level had dropped.

He turned into a very vocal, opinionated veteran who wasn't a force on the pitch anymore. Not a good combo, that. The former part (being vocal and opinionated), Fergie would've tolerated easily if Keane had still been a "top, top" player - but he just wasn't.

As for his general traits as captain, I think the angry, shouting, hard man image is inaccurate/exaggerated. If he'd been nothing but that, he would have been an unpopular teammate (not to mention a shit candidate for the captaincy) - and he wasn't that in general.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think undeniably Keane generated and commanded a tremendous amount of respect from the players around him. I don't think it was understated but it wasn't the be all of Roy Keane. He generally lead by example and I think players are attracted to that mentality. He may have been a hard arse, but you were glad he was on your side because even if you were in the shit, he'd make up for whatever you were lacking.

I think ultimately that is where he came unstuck. He lost the ability to be that extra man when time caught up. I think his last outburst wasnt just frustration about the players around him, but the realisation that he was done at the highest level (see a bit like Gary Neville) and in his mind, he wasnt ready for that. He's been around United long enough to see what was coming and I think it frustrated him to know he wasn't going to be a part of it.

I think Fergie expected Keane to mellow in his older age and become more of a club ambassador. Make the transition straight from the playing field to the training ground where he could still be Roy Keane for our club. But what he showed in that interview is that he was not capable of doing that.
 
Siorac said:
Ole should play the players who give us the best chance of achieving our goals this season.
Click to expand...

Yes.

You don't punish a player for not signing an offered contract. That he might be leaving is irrelevant to whether he should play or not. Business, not personal (an alien concept to some fans, it seems). Only thing that matters is the job he's likely to do on the pitch.
 
abdo99 said:
Is this the "future captain"? :lol:
Click to expand...

Isn't it the same bull shit like a 33 year old ronaldo doesn't deserve a new contract but you would rather let bale continue as he is younger. Herrera is not the problem.
 
Can't see him getting much game time actually, probably more as a back up. However, I wish him luck if he goes because he has never quite made it at Utd although there is irony in that his best period has been most recently.
 
Bestofthebest said:
Can't see him getting much game time actually, probably more as a back up. However, I wish him luck if he goes because he has never quite made it at Utd although there is irony in that his best period has been most recently.
Click to expand...

Won't get game time in psg as well.
 
I don't blame him for moving for a fat contract or trophies (regardless of it being a farmers league). He's a very good player with a great attitude always.

I'll miss him here.
 
Ekeke said:
Yep. Its strange how leadership qualities are emphasized in the value of some players, but with Ander its ignored. Almost always runs his socks off, works hard for what the team needs not what makes him a flashy player (covering Pogba's defending etc), the way he conducts himself off the pitch - even when out of the team he talks so professionally and positively about the team and his teammates making the club look better. And even the way he has acted towards Sanchez this season, trying to bring him in and make him feel included.

These are all things you should want from a player but most dont have them.

Some people think that leadership is shouting at and shitting on your teammates like Keane did. Theres a reason he was stripped of the captaincy and let go on bad terms.
Click to expand...


See that's the problem with Herrera fans

Everything you said is rendered worthless once you try and make out he is more of a leader than Keane was.

It's the overrating of Herrera on here that makes it impossible to have any sensible debate
 
lsd said:
See that's the problem with Herrera fans

Everything you said is rendered worthless once you try and make out he is more of a leader than Keane was.

It's the overrating of Herrera on here that makes it impossible to have any sensible debate
Click to expand...

I didnt say he is more of a leader than Keane, I was saying he has a healthier manner about the way he goes about things than someone like Keane. And thats leadership too just different.
 
Ekeke said:
I didnt say he is more of a leader than Keane, I was saying he has a healthier manner about the way he goes about things than someone like Keane. And thats leadership too just different.
Click to expand...


You have no idea how Keane was in the dressing room . You think utd players showed up every day to training to find Keane stood at the door yelling abuse at them ?

The list of players who speak fondly of Keane in the dressing room even today speaks volumes for him .

I don't know why you had to bring Keane into this as there is no way Herrera is ever going to come off better than Keane either on the pitch dressing room or as a leader .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.