Ander Herrera to PSG? | Gone.

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SAFMUTD said:
That's simply not true.

In England the tax is 45%, in Spain is 46%, in France is 49%, in Italy is 43%. It's pretty much the same in all the top leagues, your argument is invalid.
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Whatever the percentage of tax is, the point is that most continental salaries are reported after tax, while in England, it is a gross figure.
 
Judas said:
You still have a structure though. We shattered it for Sanchez.
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We didn't shatter the structure. If you have a structure you differentiate players based on their theoretical role in the team and Sanchez was supposed to be one of our crown jewels alongside De Gea and Pogba, the fact that he underachieved has no bearing on the estimation made prior to the transfer. Any player that points to Sanchez wage should be told to show the moment where he was as good as Sanchez's was for Arsenal.

Though I think that we give too much money to squad players when it comes to renewals which by the way is a far bigger issue because increasing the floor will have big consequences on how much high earners will demand, they obviously want to be far higher than the likes of Rojo.
 
I think he's a good player and one I'd like us to keep, but there are a hundred players who can do what he does. He's not particularly anything, just a solid midfielder, and he should be on no more than solid midfielder money.
 
Camilo said:
I think he's a good player and one I'd like us to keep, but there are a hundred players who can do what he does. He's not particularly anything, just a solid midfielder, and he should be on no more than solid midfielder money.
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I disagree. I can't think of any player except Kante who has Herrera's level of anticipation and can interception like he does.

I can't believe we won't pay him £150k.
 
VJ1762 said:
Feck this guy. We lost guys like RVN and CR and we are still here. Get this fecker out of my club. Also been horrible for the past month or so. I would much rather play Scott Mctominay. Bang average basque b***ard.
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In 5th (hopefully 3rd after tonight) and only because of a major resurgence in form due to what looks to be our best manager since Sir Alex?
 
Cee90 said:
Rubbish.

Hererra is a very well-rounded central midfield player.

He can pass, tackle and do a man marking job - not to mention he plays with a real drive, energy and determination.

Why would the likes of PSG, a club who are one of the richest in the world, be interested in someone who fits your description of Herrera?
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He is not good enough with ball at his feet,be that passing,running with it,shooting...all levels lower than what we need in midfield. He is good at some things,but not everything we need in that position he plays like how some post here suggest.

Our midfield was destroyed against feckin Watford.We struggled against so many mid table teams with them even dominating for most of the game,is that something which makes him irreplaceable or his character,determination will make us control games,results and not always barely winning against,even a relegation team.His passing range is nowhere near level required at a top team.If rumours are even true and PSG wants him its because its for free you get a good player able to bring some energy to midfield,but if he wouldnt be able to get for free,not one top team would want him with those rumored ludicrious wages for sure.His quality or what he brings is not worth that kind of wages and he is 30,not young anymore.For me from the moment he came never was the player we expected him to be,we struggled in midfield,always inconsistent and it is obvious that he and Matic also need to be replaced or be kept as squad players.
 
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Interesting that people say that he can be easily replaced/upgraded. Our club doesn't hold that pull anymore for world class players. Even the younger ones with good reputations look to other clubs first. If - god forbid - we lose the CL place, attracting quality players will become even more difficult. The only option then would be to offer very high wages to anyone decent enough in quality plus the buying price. We have other postitions to fill as well. Would have been nice to keep him for the time being and strengthen other key positions then to upgrade him. Then again, perhaps the club feel that Fred and McTominey can do the job. I'm in favor of keeping him for now.
 
Feel foolish as fans if true. A player many of us have lauded for loving the club, tipping him as captain to be part of a resurgence and his head his turned by money in a nothing league
 
SER19 said:
Feel foolish as fans if true. A player many of us have lauded for loving the club, tipping him as captain to be part of a resurgence and his head his turned by money in a nothing league
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We left his contract till the last minute. The club put themselves in this position.

It certainly will be disappointing if he leaves but surely you can see why he would feel like he isnt valued here if we leave his contract till the last minute, when he's been getting paid a lot less than worse players in the squad since he signed. And now a really good club has come in for him and shown more interest than we have in him.

So yeah money is part of it, but maybe not even the most important part of it. If we signed him up last year none of this would have happened. And next year it'll be De Gea
 
Would be really disappointed to lose him but I can understand why we don't want to pay him £200k pw. Yes, he's a first choice midfielder but he's not anything special.

The real question is, what would we have to pay to replace him? That needs to be factored in to the whole equation. He's a proven commodity in the PL. We potentially need another CM anyway, with the jury out on Fred and McT. So we could be shooting ourselves in the foot either way here. If he gets 200k, then everyone else wants more. If we lose him for free, then we need to spend £30m,40m,50m to replace him.

Hopefully a compromise can be reached and he'll sign for slightly less.
 
Ekeke said:
We left his contract till the last minute. The club put themselves in this position.

It certainly will be disappointing if he leaves but surely you can see why he would feel like he isnt valued here if we leave his contract till the last minute, when he's been getting paid a lot less than worse players in the squad since he signed. And now a really good club has come in for him and shown more interest than we have in him.

So yeah money is part of it, but maybe not even the most important part of it. If we signed him up last year none of this would have happened. And next year it'll be De Gea
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We of course don't know all the details, and it would not be tough to understand why decent players are stalling on contracts here right now. There has been no clear philosophy at the club, no vision for the future, no opportunity to play for big trophies (until this surprise CL run), and there have been 4 managers in less than 6 years.

I think the Sanchez contract has a lot less to do with it than people think and that the items above have a lot more to do with these contract issues. Herrera very well could have stalled on the contract himself until knowing if the club would get their shit together, and in that time a better offer was put in front of him. Every player is their own business, and if Herrera has played this one right then well done. Never doubted he was a smart one.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
We of course don't know all the details, and it would not be tough to understand why decent players are stalling on contracts here right now. There has been no clear philosophy at the club, no vision for the future, no opportunity to play for big trophies (until this surprise CL run), and there have been 4 managers in less than 6 years.

I think the Sanchez contract has a lot less to do with it than people think and that the items above have a lot more to do with these contract issues. Herrera very well could have stalled on the contract himself until knowing if the club would get their shit together, and in that time a better offer was put in front of him. Every player is their own business, and if Herrera has played this one right then well done. Never doubted he was a smart one.
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I expect the club would have said something if they offered him a deal and he wasnt accepting. Its what we're hearing now afterall
 
steakpie said:
I disagree. I can't think of any player except Kante who has Herrera's level of anticipation and can interception like he does.

I can't believe we won't pay him £150k.
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We're reportedly willing to go all the way to 170k but he and his team seem to be holding out for 200k
 
It makes me wonder sometimes if the media team just keep chucking out random rubbish to keep Man Utd in the news.
 
ivaldo said:
But interceptions certainly does, and Herreras statistics in this department blows others out of the water. It’s not just stats that backs this up either, his head is constantly on a swivel. He doesn’t just aimlessly press opponents, he has a look over his shoulder, builds a picture of who is behind him and what the passing avenues are and reacts accordingly.

The fact Herrera is having to be that last man, to track the attacking midfielder as regularly as he does, shows Matic isn’t doing his job to the level required, he isn’t positioning himself to sniff out this danger and is he a problem. It should be an oxymoron: a pressing, aggressive midfielder having to drop deep to protect the defence, but unfortunately it’s a reality. If anything, this makes his performances even more impressive. He isn’t able to concentrate on the pressing side of his game, but instead has to cover for a defensive midfielder who has seen his day come and go. It’s incredible really, that a team like PSG with the resources and options they have want to give Herrera a 3 year deal and a bumper contract, but so many here think he’s disposable.

Many seem to forget that prior to Matic’s arrival Herrera was our POTY playing as the deepest midfielder in a season where we had the best defensive record in the league.
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Yes, a player with good positioning on defense usually should be good at interceptions. But positioning awareness alone can't be measured by stats. Again, he's bound to make more of them because he's pressing all the time so he's closer to the ball on defense more often than any other player. That's not a criticism, because that's how he's supposed to play. His active style on defense helps him make more tackles and interceptions. But he doesn't have to be as disciplined as someone who is supposed to hold his position like a holding midfielder, like I was saying.

The bolded. That is subjective, and so are a lot of things that happen on the pitch. Especially if it's coming from random fans like us and not someone with extensive knowledge of the game. Which is probably one of the reasons why a player like Herrera has so polarising opinions from fans. People simply see things differently. Pogba is another good example.

Herrera having to drop back to help in defense is what his role is. He's playing essentialy as a box to box midfielder. When you see him having to cover for someone too often, that to me is indicative of a disfunctional midfield rather than only one player not doing his job. Matic is being left by himself a lot of times because Herrera is chasing the ball which leads to him getting bypassed more easily and Pogba's positional awareness isn't great either. I'm not making excuses for Matic though, he is no where near good enough either which compunds the problem. That's how I see it.

As purely a ball winning midfielder, he is really good. I just don't see the rest of his game being good enough for him to be a starter on a big team. Only looking at this thread, the majority seem to agree he's nothing more than a squad player.
 
Ekeke said:
I expect the club would have said something if they offered him a deal and he wasnt accepting. Its what we're hearing now afterall
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They were in talks over a longer extension in late 2017/early 2018, it didn't get resolved and the club triggered the automatic extra year. Then in spring 2018, Herrera had this to say:

"I am going to fulfil the year that I have left but I don’t know if I will renew. We have started talking, although nothing has been decided yet," he told Mundo Deportivo via Sporting Witness.
 
I would like this story to have some concrete news soon. If we do end up giving in to the reported demands and then sign on Mata I will be very worried about what funds we actually have to spend this summer.

My hope is they both leave.
 
NJM78 said:
I would like this story to have some concrete news soon. If we do end up giving in to the reported demands and then sign on Mata I will be very worried about what funds we actually have to spend this summer.

My hope is they both leave.
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It would be interesting. Because obviously some of these poor extensions were worked out pre-Ole like Jones, Young, Rojo. And if Ole is not fighting to keep the likes of Herrera and Mata, then I feel somewhat confident he would have said sayonara to those other bozos as well. It's a kind of promising sign for the future, and the next step will be seeing if he can replace them with better quality (which should not be too difficult).
 
The Nani said:
You’re right. If he tracks and positions himself as Carrick did he can still be very effective. Matic doesn’t though. He’s constantly out of position and I reckon Carrick would do him in a sprint even now. Never mind his diddling on the ball and poor passing range. He’s terrible.
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So why are you claiming a holding midfielder needs to have pace then? That's what I was replying to.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
It would be interesting. Because obviously some of these poor extensions were worked out pre-Ole like Jones, Young, Rojo. And if Ole is not fighting to keep the likes of Herrera and Mata, then I feel somewhat confident he would have said sayonara to those other bozos as well. It's a kind of promising sign for the future, and the next step will be seeing if he can replace them with better quality (which should not be too difficult).
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I really hope you are right, I just always have that feeling with regards to our money men taking the easier and cheaper option when push comes to shove.
Hopefully though Ole has replacements lined up already, sounded promising in press conference when mentioning agents contacting the club already. Could be an exciting summer and start of a fresh United going forward.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
They were in talks over a longer extension in late 2017/early 2018, it didn't get resolved and the club triggered the automatic extra year. Then in spring 2018, Herrera had this to say:

"I am going to fulfil the year that I have left but I don’t know if I will renew. We have started talking, although nothing has been decided yet," he told Mundo Deportivo via Sporting Witness.
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https://sport360.com/article/footba...everything-to-earn-new-contract-at-man-united

In the video he says he will do everything he can in each training session and each match to earn a new contract. Thats from pre-season. So he went into this season wanting a contract.
 
Thing is:

- if you keep him, you keep him as a backup(he's no 1st 11 quality to be honest). He wants 200K/week, you can't pay 200K a week for a squad/utility/backup player
- if you get rid of him: you lose him on a free, you free up some wages but you need to replace him and that's pretty hard.

The big picture: if you keep him as second string player, you still need to sign a very good CM. If you let him leave you still need to sign a very good CM and use Andreas/Scott as backup.

The only piece in Andrer's future at United is Fred. You can't really buy Fred for 50 mil, not play him but pay 200k/week to Anders, it's just stupid. At least that's how I see it.
 
settembrini said:
I'm starting to notice that really good defensive players are underrated on redcafe. Multiple people saying how easy it would be to replace Herrera when in recent windows United have spent £40m on Matic and £50m on Fred, neither of whom are as good as Herrera. It's the same with Smalling, every summer people think he will be replaced by a Bailly or a Lindelof (£30m each) and then he ends up being an important first team player.
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When are people gonna understand that Herrera and Matic play different positions? Herrera can't play as a holding mid, which is why he doesn't.
 
I think Ander wants to stay at United, that him and his family are settled here. PSG have thrown a real spanner in the works, mischievously I think. If I were Ander I would tell my agent to ignore it, because at PSG he would barely play, and then they would ship him off elsewhere as they would have achieved what they intended. Which is turn some fans against a popular players.
 
Janson said:
When are people gonna understand that Herrera and Matic play different positions? Herrera can't play as a holding mid, which is why he doesn't.
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Is this a joke I don't get it?

Herrera won our player of the year as a defensive midfielder and has played as one of two defensive midfielders alongside Matic many times this season, including our most recent game.
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
All you do is move the posts. Tragic posting.
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?

We left it till the last minute to offer him the deal we're talking about him not agreeing with. He may have had talks in the past, I dont know. But he specifically said publically during preseason that he's going to work his butt off to earn a new contract, which suggests he hadnt been offered one.

If that was false information we'd surely have heard about it in the past 8 months. Or do you have an excuse for that too? Maybe Ander paid the press to not talk about it?
 
ForestRGoinUp said:
All you do is move the posts. Tragic posting.
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To be fair talks aren't offers and it's also worth remembering that Mourinho wasn't using Herrera as a regular starter during the last 18 months of his tenure, which will have an influence on the talks.
 
I can bet PSG isn't in for Herrera, especially not for the quoted wages. How much is Verratti on? All these rumours are from Herrera's camp to make us pay up. Last season it was Barcelona, but today it's PSG. Not like he's indispensable. Can't play as a lone CDM except in 2-man midfield. He's at his best as a defensive box-box midfielder in a 3-man midfield.

It's not like Herrera has got Kante's like energy in the midfield considering he's always been puffing up lot of air after 60mins into every match he's played. It would only go downhill from here after all, he's not quite young nor as pacy as Kante to begin with. It's better to let him go. Players such as Lemina can replace him easily and gives us much more better than Herrera.
 
I reckon Ander will be the one to give in... unless PSG offer him mad money. He makes out he loves this club so he can feck off if he's another just after £££
 
If Herrera want £200k a week,then i hope the club sends him on his way.
Im a little disappointed in Herrera but if he really wants to trade Manchester United and Premier League for PSG / Ligue 1 because he will earn a bit more,then good luck to him.
 
RedDevil-85 said:
If Herrera want £200k a week,then i hope the club sends him on his way.
Im a little disappointed in Herrera but if he really wants to trade Manchester United and Premier League for PSG / Ligue 1 because he will earn a bit more,then good luck to him.
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It may be that he'd actually like to win some honours as well perhaps? He's not a youngster anymore, he's not won too much with us recently and it doesn't look like we're seriously aiming to win anything big in the immediate future either, does it?

Let's face it, us employing a total novice at this level / failed ex-cardiff manager with only experience in top flight footie . . in . . ahem. . Norway. . was the club saying that we're building up towards the winning stuff phase happening eventually - and I think it will but . . eventually a la Fergie.

I think we'll lose a number of players for various reasons; players wanting to win big honours / players wanting more money than we're willing to pay going forwards (we need to cut our stupid wage bill - it's embarrassing having the biggest wage bill combined with our results and it'll be disturbingly untenable for the Glazers).
 
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settembrini said:
I'm starting to notice that really good defensive players are underrated on redcafe. Multiple people saying how easy it would be to replace Herrera when in recent windows United have spent £40m on Matic and £50m on Fred, neither of whom are as good as Herrera. It's the same with Smalling, every summer people think he will be replaced by a Bailly or a Lindelof (£30m each) and then he ends up being an important first team player.
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There are many players in the premier League who can easily replace Herrera. The likes of Mario Lemina, Idrissa Gueye, Wilfred Ndidi are seasonal EPL players who can do far better than Herrera as defensive energetic box-box midfielders. And if we were to talk about CDM who can play as a lone CDM, there is Capoue, Rodrigo who are far capable than Herrera who can't even play a lone CDM role to begin with.

Blame should go to the board and Mourinho for going in for Fred who isn't familiar with the intense pace of top leagues and a washed up Matic who was already declining at Chelsea before we snatched him off Chelsea who would forever be grateful for our foolishness. Same happened as regard to Mata. Story of our lives.
 
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