[Eddy_JukeZ]

I agree but as long as we are accommodating the captain we'll be using 4-2-3-1 I feel.

Seems like it. I wouldn't mind Rooney behind Rashford I suppose, but I don't think Rooney and Ibra will mesh well.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I agree but as long as we are accommodating the captain we'll be using 4-2-3-1 I feel.

We will just have to wait and see how it goes with Wayne. Jose might give his career a boost. Until the season starts we won't know.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Getting concerned now for the little guy, didn't cover himself in glory today.

I'd be happy to let him go. Looked good to very good in his first season but since then he's been appalling.
I don't know if it's a confidence issue but he doesn't seem to be able to do a thing right, he's even struggling with the basics.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'd be happy to let him go. Looked good to very good in his first season but since then he's been appalling.
I don't know if it's a confidence issue but he doesn't seem to be able to do a thing right, he's even struggling with the basics.

First half Wayne couldn't pass the ball, 2nd half he looked better. He won't be going anywhere but might have to accept being backup to Pogba.

 

[Devil may care]

Seems like it. I wouldn't mind Rooney behind Rashford I suppose, but I don't think Rooney and Ibra will mesh well.

Rooney is a hinderance but at least with Rashford stretching the play he's less crap, paired with Ibra he's devoid of the physical and technical skills needed to dovetail.

We will just have to wait and see how it goes with Wayne. Jose might give his career a boost. Until the season starts we won't know.

I don't think Jose can fix the fact he's physically shot.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Rooney is a hinderance but at least with Rashford stretching the play he's less crap, paired with Ibra he's devoid of the physical and technical skills needed to dovetail.



I don't think Jose can fix the fact he's physically shot.

It won't work with Ibra and Rooney together, they are both too slow. Either of them will need to play with Rashford.

 

[sunama]

what the heck is a 'double pivot formation'?

It's something which LVG used to do and fans bought into it.
I myself don't give a damn about LVG's formations and his double pivot system.
I hope we never play like we played under LVG, because that was boring and not how any team should play unless they are playing to avoid relegation.

 

[sunama]

Daft thing is, the way we played 2nd half might have suited him more.

Maybe the way we played in the 2nd half (vs the 1st half), was because Herrera and Morgan were subbed. Maybe?

 

[Devil may care]

It won't work with Ibra and Rooney together, they are both too slow. Either of them will need to play with Rashford.

Foe me it would be Ibra as the #9 and Micki as the #10, with Rooney and Mata used as the #10 when Rashford plays.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's something which LVG used to do and fans bought into it.
I myself don't give a damn about LVG's formations and his double pivot system.
I hope we never play like we played under LVG, because that was boring and not how any team should play unless they are playing to avoid relegation.

Are you a politician? You still haven't explained exactly what a double pivot is? I would actually like to know as well as to me it is just a midfield three.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Foe me it would be Ibra as the #9 and Micki as the #10, with Rooney and Mata used as the #10 when Rashford plays.

Whatever combination. Rooney behind Ibra doesn't work. There is not enough movement, which makes it difficult to pick anyone out from the midfield or out wide.

 

[Devil may care]

Whatever combination. Rooney behind Ibra doesn't work. There is not enough movement, which makes it difficult to pick anyone out from the midfield or out wide.

Agreed, and that is going to be a big call for Jose as playing with both is going to kill us but dropping either will mean drama.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Are you a politician? You still haven't explained exactly what a double pivot is? I would actually like to know as well as to me it is just a midfield three.

It's a midfield 3 with two holding players popularised in Spain during the 2000s. For some reason, people are convinced we played with one last season when Carrick and Schweinsteiger played, even though Schweinsteiger played further forward than Carrick and invariably ended up in an inside left channel when we were attacking.

Nowadays I think people use it just to refer to a 4-2-3-1.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's a midfield 3 with two holding players popularised in Spain during the 2000s. For some reason, people are convinced we played with one last season when Carrick and Schweinsteiger played, even though Schweinsteiger played further forward than Carrick and invariably ended up in an inside left channel when we were attacking.

Nowadays I think people use it just to refer to a 4-2-3-1.

Too many people playing football on their phones and consoles.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Are you a politician? You still haven't explained exactly what a double pivot is? I would actually like to know as well as to me it is just a midfield three.

The pivot point is the midfielder who sits deep and the other midfielders move around off of. A double pivot is when two players take turns doing this so when one midfielder goes forward the other sits deep and vice versa instead of having a designated pivot player who always sits deep. Someone like Busquests is played as a single pivot. Wanyama and Schneiderlin, Anderson and Cleverley, Wilshere and Arteta/Song are more double pivot pairings. Even in double pivots it usually isn't equal and one will sit more and go forward more than the other but both roles are shared at times.

 

[Hed Zitin]

I don't know where he fits in this team.

 

[JPRouve]

Too many people playing football on their phones and consoles.

It's one of the rare things that has nothing to do with videogames, it's mainly due to spanish commentators.

 

[Kostur]

He pretty much can't play as one of #6s, exactly what we've known since last season. Doubt he'll get many games if any at #10, pretty much needs a midfield three to work. Who knows, maybe with Pog's arrival we could play 433 but I doubt it.

 

[Brightonian]

It's preseason, way too early to draw conclusions about what midfields will and won't work. They've just started learning a new system of play, the best CM in the world wouldn't have worked out exactly how Mourinho wanted him to play yet.

I think Mourinho will mould Schneiderlin into a more defensive player than he is, and will bring out the best in Herrera, who is a classic Mourinho CM (all-rounder, hard-working, scrappy, adaptable).

 

[Raees]

Another nice guy who doesn't seem to have what it takes here. Really has become a nothing player, everything he does.. just seems to lack conviction. Needs a bollocking.

 

[Footyislife]

2nd goal was Blind's fault. You can't expect Herrera facing away from the goal to catch up to Bruma who's very fast. It's a team sport, where the CB has to be quick to react and close down Bruma. Blind with his lethargic pace was 5 yards off from Bruma giving him an easy shot at goal. Not too worried as Smalling would have had that closed down.

Still Herrera didn't have a great game, but he worked hard and won the ball high up the pitch several times. If Rooney was remotely useful as a player in the first half, one of those counter attacks would have resulted in a goal. With Pogba coming thought, don't know how Herrera, Scheiderlin, Fellaini, and Carrick can compete for the remaining 3 spots. One of them also has to go along with BFS, and we can use TFM as a backup DM if we are hit with injuries.

 

[Ainu]

what the heck is a 'double pivot formation'?

It's a system where 2 midfielders share the burden of being the deepest midfielder, as opposed to a single recognized holding midfielder. Usually this means both players of the double pivot don't have the positional awareness to act as a single pivot. I don't like the system, it often gets mistreated by putting players who're completely unsuited to the role in a pivot position. Wenger has tried this with Wilshere for example, and we've seen it with Herrera. Busquets is the best example of a single pivot in the modern game.

 

[Wade3]

I wouldn't write him off just yet.

 

[criticalanalysis]

2nd goal was Blind's fault. You can't expect Herrera facing away from the goal to catch up to Bruma who's very fast. It's a team sport, where the CB has to be quick to react and close down Bruma. Blind with his lethargic pace was 5 yards off from Bruma giving him an easy shot at goal. Not too worried as Smalling would have had that closed down.

Still Herrera didn't have a great game, but he worked hard and won the ball high up the pitch several times. If Rooney was remotely useful as a player in the first half, one of those counter attacks would have resulted in a goal. With Pogba coming thought, don't know how Herrera, Scheiderlin, Fellaini, and Carrick can compete for the remaining 3 spots. One of them also has to go along with BFS, and we can use TFM as a backup DM if we are hit with injuries.

I'm a big Herrera fan but he has to take a lot of blame for the goal (a very good one to give credit). You simpy can't let your player past that easily, you hassle him, get position etc not get stuck on your back feet.

However, a lot of people did seem to miss that he won the ball high up at least 2-3 times in very good positions. He's very good playing on the front foot and totally wasn't suited to the slow, super patient, 10 men behind the ball mentality in the first half...but then who in the team is? Although there was little intensity and pressure on the Galatasaray players, you got to give them credit for actually having a good half. Didn't panic, played their football and got their rewards.

 

[Akshay]

It's a system where 2 midfielders share the burden of being the deepest midfielder, as opposed to a single recognized holding midfielder. Usually this means both players of the double pivot don't have the positional awareness to act as a single pivot. I don't like the system, it often gets mistreated by putting players who're completely unsuited to the role in a pivot position. Wenger has tried this with Wilshere for example, and we've seen it with Herrera. Busquets is the best example of a single pivot in the modern game.

Can't agree with that. It's a system, usually based on the coach's preference, with its own upsides and downsides. The same player can be used as a single pivot by one coach and then partnered up with another for a double pivot by another coach.

 

[POF]

The difference between first and second half team performance had a lot to do with his inept display. Been hapless so far this pre-season. Mourinho won't have been impressed.

Really? He was terrible today but I've been impressed with him in his 2 previous pre season games. He has played a lot of minutes in pre season (probably more than anyone else) and looked very tired today.

His pressing to win the ball back and link play was impressive in the two previous games. Looks like United will play a high tempo game in midfield this season and I think it will suit him.

 

[XdanielredX]

A player who showed the ability he ahs if played in the right system, many calling him the most complete/best all round midfielder in the league during his good spell.

If he can get back to that, we have a real gem on our hands.

 

[harms]

It's a system where 2 midfielders share the burden of being the deepest midfielder, as opposed to a single recognized holding midfielder. Usually this means both players of the double pivot don't have the positional awareness to act as a single pivot. I don't like the system, it often gets mistreated by putting players who're completely unsuited to the role in a pivot position. Wenger has tried this with Wilshere for example, and we've seen it with Herrera. Busquets is the best example of a single pivot in the modern game.

It's interesting that Busquets played most of his international games in a double pivot system with Xabi Alonso. Does the best example of a single pivot lack the positional awareness to act as a single pivot?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Really? He was terrible today but I've been impressed with him in his 2 previous pre season games. He has played a lot of minutes in pre season (probably more than anyone else) and looked very tired today.

His pressing to win the ball back and link play was impressive in the two previous games. Looks like United will play a high tempo game in midfield this season and I think it will suit him.

He hasn't impressed me at all. Positional play is just well off for a CM. Although today was the worst performance by far, I agree. Considering he's one of the players with the most pre-season minutes you'd expect him to be one of the top performers but he was anything but.

 

[ZDwyr]

He just seems erratic to me. He gives the ball away, his long passing is average, he switches off and he concedes some unnecessary fouls. He provides some energy and buzzes around but I am not sure about his tactical discipline. In an attacking team where he can play as the #10 or maybe an #8 he'd be fine, but I am not sure he will get the chances here.

 

[Marcelinho87]

BFS offers more than Herrera imo. Other than his willingness to harass and chase down he doesn't actually offer much at all.

 

[POF]

He hasn't impressed me at all. Positional play is just well off for a CM. Although today was the worst performance by far, I agree. Considering he's one of the players with the most pre-season minutes you'd expect him to be one of the top performers but he was anything but.

Agreed he was anything but today. His biggest issue for me was pressing the ball at the wrong time rather than pure positioning. He did it a few times and was caught out badly, especially for the second goal. He pressed it very well vs Dortmund though and created some excellent counter attacking opportunities by winning the ball.

Maybe due to the minutes he's played he should be fitter, or maybe he's done more heavy sessions than everyone else.

It's hard to see him keep his place after Pogba joins but I really like him as a player. He has a great attitude and he is very intelligent at linking the play.

 

[Varun]

He'll be benched once pogba comes unless Mourinho learns the Rooney lesson and drops him. Even then, it'd be tough for him to be a starter.

 

[itso 7]

He just seems erratic to me. He gives the ball away, his long passing is average, he switches off and he concedes some unnecessary fouls. He provides some energy and buzzes around but I am not sure about his tactical discipline. In an attacking team where he can play as the #10 or maybe an #8 he'd be fine, but I am not sure he will get the chances here.

This and this post reminds me of his stupudity at Upton Park last season that pretty much cost us CL football. It would be acceptable if he was twenty not going on twenty-seven. I fear he isn't going to improve by much and we're better of dedicating his squad role to a younger midfielder with a bigger upside.

 

[POF]

This and this post reminds me of his stupudity at Upton Park last season that pretty much cost us CL football. It would be acceptable if he was twenty not going on twenty-seven. I fear he isn't going to improve by much and we're better of dedicating his squad role to a younger midfielder with a bigger upside.

Don't be ridiculous. Giving away a few free kicks didn't cost the team that game. The complete inability to defend them was the issue.

I do agree with the post you quoted though. His erratic passing is the biggest flaw in his game. He is a creative midfield player who can spot the right pass to open a defence but regularly misplaces it.

 

[SATA]

I'm starting to think we have over-rating him a little. He doesn't do much with the ball except to get it off quickly by passing to the nearest teammate and run off to another space

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm starting to think we have over-rating him a little. He doesn't do much with the ball except to get it off quickly by passing to the nearest teammate and run off to another space

Pass and move. Never thought that was a negative.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't be ridiculous. Giving away a few free kicks didn't cost the team that game. The complete inability to defend them was the issue.

I do agree with the post you quoted though. His erratic passing is the biggest flaw in his game. He is a creative midfield player who can spot the right pass to open a defence but regularly misplaces it.

That, or - as you previously mentioned - bad decisions when it comes to his positioning on the pitch. Letting opposition players run off him and pressing when he should hold.

All of which is a damning set of flaws for someone who aspires to play in central midfield. It's a real pity because he's such a likeable guy and has some good attributes but I'm starting to think he won't ever make the grade.

 

[Speak]

I'm starting to think we have over-rating him a little. He doesn't do much with the ball except to get it off quickly by passing to the nearest teammate and run off to another space

I think that's become pretty obvious by now.

 

[MDFC Manager]

He's not developed in the past two seasons, probably even regressed. Cannot play in the midfield two and that's a significant disadvantage if you're an aspiring CM in a Mourinho squad.