Arrested Development, It's Always Sunny in Philly, Community, Parks & Recreation, 30 Rock, The Office, Modern Family, Trailer Park Boys....
What about these? Why only mention the shit ones?
American Sitcoms - 90s vs. 2000s
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Arrested Development, It's Always Sunny in Philly, Community, Parks & Recreation, 30 Rock, The Office, Modern Family, Trailer Park Boys....
What about these? Why only mention the shit ones?
Basil Fawlty had Polly as his normal one, and along with Perin had obvious reasons in the show which were the cause of their pricklyness with which the audience could sympathise. Also they were British shows that stood out at the time and continue to do so today. Most American comedies (even good ones like the first series of Happy Days) were bogged down with plots that involved learning about morality and family values and a few heaped spoonfuls of sugary sentimentality.
Like I specifically said, "at the time" the "no hugging, no learning" motto that they applied to Seinfeld did set it apart from the American Sitcoms (as per the topic) of the time. As good as Fraiser was, that was also too fond of their characters crying and embracing and carrying itself along for a decade with a sub-plot of one of the characters yearning for another (and as soon as they got together it went right down the pan).
As for Arrested Development, it came along years after Seinfeld, so I don't see how it's relevant to an argument about how Seinfeld was one of the first American sitcoms with almost wholy unlikable characters. Also, Michael is an archetypal sitcom good-guy everyman.
I'm also not saying that you not "getting it" is a fault of your own. That's why I put "get it" in quotes originally. You will normally either like something or not like it. I can easily see why some people might not like Seinfeld. I can understand that not everyone will find it funny or even may find some elements of it incredibly irritating. I'm not bothered whether people like it or not, but it was clearly something different for American audiences when it was originally shown. Perhaps it's like olives: Some will like them straight away, others will find them an aquired taste and others will never understand how the bloody hell anyone could eat them.
Seinfeld is infinitely better than Curb.
And olives are good with whisky.
And olives are good with whisky.
Olives are delicious, with or without whiskey.
Seinfeld is not very funny.
Not sure I like the olives analogy, as that implies you need a sophisticated palette to appreciate Seinfeld. It's an acquired taste which might be too complex for children or people not willing to make an effort.
How's about we go with Cream Soda? It's a taste which divides opinions. It's also American, kind of bland and slightly dated.
Yeah, I'll go with that. Seinfeld = Cream Soda.
Seinfeld is not very funny.
Not sure I like the olives analogy, as that implies you need a sophisticated palette to appreciate Seinfeld. It's an acquired taste which might be too complex for children or people not willing to make an effort.
How's about we go with Cream Soda? It's a taste which divides opinions. It's also American, kind of bland and slightly dated.
Yeah, I'll go with that. Seinfeld = Cream Soda.
It'd be lovely if people stopped telling us we don't like Seinfeld because we're not capable of understanding it.
It'd be lovely if people stopped telling us we don't like olives because we don't have a sophisticated palette.
Someone mentioned Community. Can't stand that show.
I don't really watch any sitcoms anymore. Modern Family is brilliant but that's about the only one I like right now.
I don't really watch any sitcoms anymore. Modern Family is brilliant but that's about the only one I like right now.
See, I'm really not sure I spelt "palette" right.
Reassuring to see you went with the same option but, then again, English isn't your first language... Hmmm...
Community is fantastic, though there are subpar episodes. But the first paintball one, and the mafia one are as good as anything on TV.
Yes. Seinfield is shit, and it's not because I don't understand it.
A friend's girlfriend once lectured me on how Kramer's 'hilarious' sliding entrance was some sort of satirical commentary the way sitcoms normally introduce new characters into scenes. I told her to go choke on numerous dicks.
I don't like it. The characters annoy me and it seems purposeless and unfunny.
The amount of people who have tried to explain something to me about Sienfeld, in the hope that I'm criminally retarded and that combined with their explanation, things would magically become funny to me, is annoying.
Your friends girlfriend sounds criminally retarded.
Ya'll getting a bit defensive. Not many in this thread have told you that you don't get it. I think. It's comedy, it's taste. Who cares. I think Seinfeld is great, and I've no idea why Curb gets such rave reviews. It's quite alright, but I don't see the big attraction.
I just copy-pasted yours, so...
I can see why someone wouldnt like it. I don't like Arrested Development, but can appriciate it.
Community has quite a few problems for me, but it is very well written at times. There's are a couple of episodes in the first season where dialogues just clicked brilliantly for me...Like this for example, which starts with a (missing) gag someone calls racist, and a bet that Chevy Chase will say something more racist within a minute.
To me, that's tight writing.
However it has an odd, almost jarring duality to it, as if the last 3rd of every episode is tacked on by an anxious studio executive weened on Happy Days & Different Strokes. The whole Seinfeld "no hugging, no learning" (which I still maintain isn't nearly as original or groundbreaking as Seinfeld fans like to claim it is, maybe in that type of American sitcom, but not in comedy) is pretty much reversed in Community, and every episode relies on a character seeing the error of their ways and learning something and coming to the aide of their friends in a sickly sweet Glee like way. To the point where when I was watching the first series in one go, I'd frequently skip the last 5 minutes of every episode.
Then there are lots of niggly bits like the Sudiekisation of Jeff (initially he was a smooth talking twatish loser who could charm idiots, but who thought he was far cooler than he was and didn't get the girl, but now he's Mr Awesome who everyone loves and admires, who solves every problem and gets all the girls - mostly by necessity of course, because he's fecking "learning" at the end of every fecking episode) and slightly too many characters that aren't actually funny, like Shirley for example, who's actually a bit shit.
However it's still a much better version of the kind of thing it is, or the kind of thing it's being forced to be, if it is indeed doing that, than a lot of things like it....If that makes sense. It has it's moments basically. It's not AD or Sunny though IMO. Well that's my take on it at any rate.
To me, that's tight writing.
However it has an odd, almost jarring duality to it, as if the last 3rd of every episode is tacked on by an anxious studio executive weened on Happy Days & Different Strokes. The whole Seinfeld "no hugging, no learning" (which I still maintain isn't nearly as original or groundbreaking as Seinfeld fans like to claim it is, maybe in that type of American sitcom, but not in comedy) is pretty much reversed in Community, and every episode relies on a character seeing the error of their ways and learning something and coming to the aide of their friends in a sickly sweet Glee like way. To the point where when I was watching the first series in one go, I'd frequently skip the last 5 minutes of every episode.
Then there are lots of niggly bits like the Sudiekisation of Jeff (initially he was a smooth talking twatish loser who could charm idiots, but who thought he was far cooler than he was and didn't get the girl, but now he's Mr Awesome who everyone loves and admires, who solves every problem and gets all the girls - mostly by necessity of course, because he's fecking "learning" at the end of every fecking episode) and slightly too many characters that aren't actually funny, like Shirley for example, who's actually a bit shit.
However it's still a much better version of the kind of thing it is, or the kind of thing it's being forced to be, if it is indeed doing that, than a lot of things like it....If that makes sense. It has it's moments basically. It's not AD or Sunny though IMO. Well that's my take on it at any rate.
Some of you are grossly under estimating how ground breaking Seinfeld was at its time.
Critics have written articles about singular episodes like The Chinese Restaurant, The Contest. At that time a sitcom episode about masturbation was unheard of and NBC even tried their best to stop Seinfeld team from airing the episode about just waiting for a table in a restaurant. Then there was the parking garage episode, again, bereft of a proper plot and simply based on a trip to mall to buy an AC.
And I maintain that is very odd that someone can like Curb and not get Seinfeld at all. Simply because bar season 1,2 and 3, rest of the curb seasons derive heavily from stories and character traits from Seinfeld. For the latest season, out of the 10 episodes, 6-7 are wholly based on previous themes and story lines told on Seinfeld.
Loads of Larry's musings are a take on Jerry-George conversations in seinfeld. His mannerisms like social assassin stuff has already been done with Kramer multiple times. The odd fights he gets into with people be it a fat girl at clinic, analogus to stuff Elaine did in Seinfeld. And obviously I do not have to point out any George comparisons since LD himself will tell everyone that character was based on him.
Critics have written articles about singular episodes like The Chinese Restaurant, The Contest. At that time a sitcom episode about masturbation was unheard of and NBC even tried their best to stop Seinfeld team from airing the episode about just waiting for a table in a restaurant. Then there was the parking garage episode, again, bereft of a proper plot and simply based on a trip to mall to buy an AC.
And I maintain that is very odd that someone can like Curb and not get Seinfeld at all. Simply because bar season 1,2 and 3, rest of the curb seasons derive heavily from stories and character traits from Seinfeld. For the latest season, out of the 10 episodes, 6-7 are wholly based on previous themes and story lines told on Seinfeld.
Loads of Larry's musings are a take on Jerry-George conversations in seinfeld. His mannerisms like social assassin stuff has already been done with Kramer multiple times. The odd fights he gets into with people be it a fat girl at clinic, analogus to stuff Elaine did in Seinfeld. And obviously I do not have to point out any George comparisons since LD himself will tell everyone that character was based on him.
You see, this is the kind of crap we're talking about crappy. You spent a lot of posts initially arguing that a) "Well, it's generally only people who've seen Curb first" before it was pointed out we're all around 30ish and were watching it on TV when it was on, then it was b) "Well there's very few people" which prompted more people to come out of the woodwork, and now you're determined to argue that it's still very odd...Give it up. We don't like it, and we're sentient rational people with a sense of humour who just don't find it funny. It shouldn't make it any less funny to you, but it might just mean that it's not quite as universally adored as you imagined. But then nothing is really.
Besides, just because it was amazing to have someone talk about masturbating on NBC in the mid-90s, doesn't mean it was particularly groundbreaking for comedy in general, especially not in a nation weened on Monty Python et all. It also doesn't guarantee it's humour. Which is the main point after all.
Besides, just because it was amazing to have someone talk about masturbating on NBC in the mid-90s, doesn't mean it was particularly groundbreaking for comedy in general, especially not in a nation weened on Monty Python et all. It also doesn't guarantee it's humour. Which is the main point after all.
a) was personal experience, never claimed it was true for this forum.
b) 5 or 10 on here could still be in minority. And out of those who have seen full seasons of Seinfeld should qualify anyway.
I am just expressing my personal opinion. It is the same with Arrested Development. I find it odd if people fail to appreciate it. And those episodes which broke the norms were actually very funny and best of the series hence the acclaim.
But this thread is specifically about American sitcoms of the 90s (and 2000s). It's not anybody else' fault that you keep wanting to expand the topic beyond it's original boundaries, but you seem to keep making a point counter to any other point I or Craperson was making.
But nobody has said that though. I have said that some people don't "get it". You don't have to be especially intelligent to get it and many perfectly intelligent people do not get it. I'm not calling you thick. Just as an example, personally, I dont "get" Lord of the Rings. Bearded wizards and hairy toed dwarves don't challenge my intellect, I just don't understand the excitement they bring to millions of people because they bore me to tears. Some people seem to take personal insult to someone saying - quite rightly - that they don't find something funny because they don't get it or buy into it. This is reading a lot like the Stewart Lee thread at the moment.
Olives are only delicious to certain people with certain tastes and opinions. It's directly analogous to Seinfeld being funny to certain people of certain tastes and opinions. Neither do olive lovers or seinfeld fans have any special sophistication that sets them apart from those who do not like them. Seinfeld is only as shit as olives are.
But I'm not talking about Seinfeld in regards to the context of this thread, I'm just talking about whether I like it or not.
I wasn't really referring to you, Ed, and not really this thread, but more the attitude I seem to pick up from a lot of people who are fans. Which is that it's 'intelligent' humour and that some people don't want that in a comedy.
I was being a little facetious, in fairness.
Mind you, substitute "cream soda" for "olives" in that paragraph and I'd be happier
