No. Pretentious shite.
American Sitcoms - 90s vs. 2000s
- Thread starter Salvation
- Start date
No. Pretentious shite.
How could you forget the simpsons? they're gems in their 90s
I think he is as he's in the credits now, he was always going to be because his character was so popular in the finale last season.
The office has mostly run its course though and...
making Andy the new boss is daft, he was only made boss because he's the most well known actor in it now that Carell is gone.
The problem with American sitcoms throughout these many years is that if they do succeed and become popular, they completely milk them for all they're worth and make far more seasons than they should. The Office, How I met yo mama, It's always Sunny in Philly, Curb your Enthusiam, Frasier, Friends, The Simpsons etc etc. I know they'll probably go and do it with Modern Family and Community now too.
Where as if a show isn't that popular, like the magnificent Arrested Development, they just flat out cancel the thing instead of letting it finish its story. They've no middle ground at all.
That's what I admire about UK networks, mostly they let their shows run as long as their creators want, The Office, Extras, Father Ted to name a few.
Well there is a middle ground, it's cable, Curb and Sunny aren't milked, they continue because the creators want them to continue, neither FX or HBO force storylines or gimmicks on either show, and neither are really ratings smash hits, both have good loyal fanbases which grows steadily and get great feedback, which is basically what AD had, except that was on a network.
Curb and Sunny have definitely run for too long now, neither are as good as they used to be.
HBO are generally the best for letting shows run their course, The Wire, The Sopranos etc but Curb is their only real long running sitcom as I recall. We'll see how long they keep Hung and Bored to Death going, 2 very good shows. Showtime don't really have any sitcoms and FX isn't a premium cable show as I recall
The "middle ground" is very, very limited.
EDIT: Forgot Entourage too, that got so shit by the last 2 or 3 seasons.
HBO are generally the best for letting shows run their course, The Wire, The Sopranos etc but Curb is their only real long running sitcom as I recall. We'll see how long they keep Hung and Bored to Death going, 2 very good shows. Showtime don't really have any sitcoms and FX isn't a premium cable show as I recall
The "middle ground" is very, very limited.
EDIT: Forgot Entourage too, that got so shit by the last 2 or 3 seasons.
I'm a big fan of Curb too. Which makes my dislike for Seinfeld all the weirder. I did single it out as being of greater merit than the others, mind you.
Curb and Sunny have definitely run for too long now, neither are as good as they used to be.
HBO are generally the best for letting shows run their course, The Wire, The Sopranos etc but Curb is their only real long running sitcom as I recall. We'll see how long they keep Hung and Bored to Death going, 2 very good shows. Showtime don't really have any sitcoms and FX isn't a premium cable show as I recall
The "middle ground" is very, very limited.
EDIT: Forgot Entourage too, that got so shit by the last 2 or 3 seasons.
The most recent season of Curb is right up there with the earlier ones.
Differing opinions I guess, I haven't found it very good, same old same old at this stage and the last 2 seasons were really poor for me.
Curb and Sunny have definitely run for too long now, neither are as good as they used to be.
HBO are generally the best for letting shows run their course, The Wire, The Sopranos etc but Curb is their only real long running sitcom as I recall. We'll see how long they keep Hung and Bored to Death going, 2 very good shows. Showtime don't really have any sitcoms and FX isn't a premium cable show as I recall
The "middle ground" is very, very limited.
EDIT: Forgot Entourage too, that got so shit by the last 2 or 3 seasons.
Running for too long and being milked are two different things though. Now Sopranos, that is a show HBO did milk as Chase only had plans for 4 seasons(which was partially obvious by how much filler the final two seasons had), but eventually they got him and an incredibly reluctant Gandolfini on board for future seasons by throwing ridiculous money at them, which David doesn't get because Curb barely gets close to Entourage ratings yet alone what Sex and the City used to get.
I also never mentioned fx being premium cable or not...basic cable, premium cable, its still cable.
Right then, say Curb isn't a show that's been milked. (I think it has)
Exactly what else hasn't, in terms of popular sitcoms? You said yourself right now that The Sopranos (not a sitcom obviously, and a bad show to pick as an example as it's Cable too who are the "middle ground"), Entourage and SaTC all were.
Well if their popular.....they are going to get milked. That's the point.
But neither Sunny or Curb get ratings that set the world alight, so both networks just leave it up to creators whether they want to come back and continue or not. They let them have that freedom because they get solid ratings, both have ridiculously cheap production costs and well are critical hits.
But neither Sunny or Curb get ratings that set the world alight, so both networks just leave it up to creators whether they want to come back and continue or not. They let them have that freedom because they get solid ratings, both have ridiculously cheap production costs and well are critical hits.
Both Plech & I also like Curb but don't like Seinfeld.. and I'd take a guess at Mike too, due to his deep seated hatred of overly Jewish things.
That was MY point about American TV in contrast to British TV, then you were going on about the "middle ground" and arguing against the point, but now you're agreeing with me. Clever.
ummm....no my point was that Sunny and Curb would of been cancelled on networks yet you think they've got milked, thus cable being the middle ground.
Big Bang Theory is really good... How I Met Your Mother becomes boring after some times...
You didn't say that, and FX is no different to CBS, Fox or whatever, they just let their shows get away with more violence etc. How do you know Sunny would get cancelled on any of them?
And how does that make cable the middle ground here? 2 shows amidst dozens and dozens in the last 10 years.
I didn't say I said that....I just didn't think I had to spell it out until then. Why would of they been cancelled? for the exact same reasons as AD was, or Freaks and Geeks, or Firely, or anything is...because they didn't get great ratings(and well they still don't really, though they have grown to be strong enough for their channels) off the bat despite being highly acclaimed.
Also, I don't live in America.....but fx isn't a broadcast network.
Also, I don't live in America.....but fx isn't a broadcast network.
Curb and Philly have always been more successful for their networks than any of those, they're cheap to make and get steady ratings throughout. Those 3 shows above never had that.
Louie is the best sitcom for me currently. The episode where he confessed his love to Pamela Addlon was epic.
I'm in that boat too, not the deep seated hatred of Jews, the liking Curb and disliking Seinfeld one. My main issue with it was that I find Jerry Seinfeld extremely annoying to watch on screen, his delivery of punchlines actually grates on me.
I always said they should make a spinoff about the only actually funny character George....
Pretentious how?
It's clearly something only the cool kids get
Frasier is not that bad. Main problem was they rehashed some of the stories multiple times. Pretty main stream sitcom stuff but jokes were better than some of shit doled out on Raymond or WIll and Grace
And in my experience, it is mostly people who have seen Curb first, that wind up hating or disliking Seinfeld. Everyone else who watched Seinfeld first and then Curb, still loves both and most out of these rate Seinfeld better.
In the last Curb season alone, multiple seinfield plays and stories were rehashed by Larry David.
Kramer was the original social assassin. George the one willing to go to any level to have sex with a women etc etc..
In the last Curb season alone, multiple seinfield plays and stories were rehashed by Larry David.
Kramer was the original social assassin. George the one willing to go to any level to have sex with a women etc etc..
Come to think of it, I reckon Curb got increasingly "Seinfeldy" in recent seasons, which made me like it less and less. It became more and more goofy and over the top, whilst losing the dark, misanthropic edge which made me fall in love with it in the first place. Culminating in that plot-line which actually featured the cast of Seinfeld. All that was missing was the annoying slap-bass riff.
Definite return to form in the last season though (all 6 episodes I've watched anyway) The episode about the Palestinian chicken restaurant is right up there with the very best.
Bearing in mind the chronological order in which they were broadcast, I'd say most people fall in the latter category. I know I do. I just never got into Seinfeld. Didn't find it funny at all.
I personally find that odd. At least Plech had some weird reason to do with likability or able to care about characters in Curb.
Essentially Larry David the character in Curb has been an amalgamation of the four from seinfeld. That can be observed from first season to last. Something he also more or less said by the "Seinfeld reunion" season with him writing stories for all four based on what happened with him. Given it is on HBO and was David's second go, he was able to filter and refine Curb much more than Seinfeld giving it a more polished and rewarding story loops. But I still can not fathom anyone watching Seinfeld S3-5 and now finding it funny. Akin to not rating Wire for me.
Essentially Larry David the character in Curb has been an amalgamation of the four from seinfeld. That can be observed from first season to last. Something he also more or less said by the "Seinfeld reunion" season with him writing stories for all four based on what happened with him. Given it is on HBO and was David's second go, he was able to filter and refine Curb much more than Seinfeld giving it a more polished and rewarding story loops. But I still can not fathom anyone watching Seinfeld S3-5 and now finding it funny. Akin to not rating Wire for me.
Very few people though belong to like Curb and hate Seinfeld category.
I've no idea exactly how many people do or don't belong to that category but there's at least four of them who've posted (or been mentioned) in this thread.
I don't hate Seinfeld but it's not nearly as good as Curb was in its prime.
Five including me.
I'm sure that the large majority of sitcoms made in the 90s were dross as well. It's just that you've forgotten them. Crap like Hangin' With Mr Cooper was on for 5 years, Dharma & Greg (the 90s equivalent of How I Met Your Mother) also was on for 5 years. Coach ran for 9 seasons, as did Family Matters, Also, Will and Grace (besides the fact it was bloody awful) had most of it's run in the 2000s. A touch of the rose tinted specs to this post. There have always been loads of crappy TV shows and a small handful of quality ones.
I slept with your wife
TV snobs. What's a sitcom by the way
See even that "the jerk store called" gag, I just don't get it's appeal. It's playground stuff. Hardly Woody Allen as far as wordy jewish humour.
I think there are more "like Curb, don't like Seinfeld" peeps than you think, they just don't pipe up during the kind of conversations where people quote lines from Seinfeld at each other. Probably quietly clenching their teeth in silent anguish and bemusement.
I think there are more "like Curb, don't like Seinfeld" peeps than you think, they just don't pipe up during the kind of conversations where people quote lines from Seinfeld at each other. Probably quietly clenching their teeth in silent anguish and bemusement.
Have you seen the episode? George's retort is supposed to be terrible. It makes no sense, the joke is the situation and the fact that he and he alone thinks that it is witty.
I have a freind who really disliked what he'd seen of Seinfeld. Only after watching Curb Your Enthusiasm did he finally "get it". People complain that Jerry is smug and unlikable perhaps without realising that he is supposed to be. None of the characters are supposed to be likable, that's what (at the time) set it apart.
Yes but none of the characters of Arrested Development or It's Always Sunny are supposed to be likeable, in fact many are supposed to be far worse than Seinfeld (though I'm sure influenced by them) and yet are rootable, and watchable...and funny. As are Alan Partridge and Kenny Powers. Basil Faulty, Reginald Perin, Alf Garnet etc etc and so on and so forth all the way back to the dawn of comedy. It's not exactly the first or indeed the best to promote that idea.
One of the great connecting themes of Seinfeld fans is that none of them can comprehend that people don't like it, and always seem to need to find a reason or an excuse as to why I, or whomever, actually didn't get it, or hasn't watched it properly, or has a deep seated irrational hatred of Jews (Mike)
Truth is, I've watched loads of it, and just simply don't find it funny. For many reasons, but the main one being, I don't laugh at it. And I'm obviously in some quite good company too.
One of the great connecting themes of Seinfeld fans is that none of them can comprehend that people don't like it, and always seem to need to find a reason or an excuse as to why I, or whomever, actually didn't get it, or hasn't watched it properly, or has a deep seated irrational hatred of Jews (Mike)
Truth is, I've watched loads of it, and just simply don't find it funny. For many reasons, but the main one being, I don't laugh at it. And I'm obviously in some quite good company too.
I dont like Seinfeld but I dont think his humour is Jewish.
Well take it up with Mike. He does tend to overly stereotype.