American Sitcoms - 90s vs. 2000s

Salvation

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Looking at some of the hit sitcoms of today - am I the only one who thinks they wouldn't be fit to lace the ones from 90s?

Currently, we have Two and a Half Men, Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, Rules of Engagement.

None of those would have made it in the 90s which had Seinfeld, Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, Will and Grace, Frasier.

Obviously shows like Curb, Office, Modern Family, Scrubs which did away with laugh tracks have redefined the comedy genre but surely the Yanks can come up with something better than what's on offer right now? It is a pretty cherished genre even today.
 
They've also made some horrible decision with shows.

I don't know if you'd classify it as a sitcom or not but they inexplicably decided to stop the best show of the last 10 (perhaps 20?) years after two seasons.

I'm ofcourse talking about Arrested Development.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
They've also made some horrible decision with shows.

I don't know if you'd classify it as a sitcom or not but they inexplicably decided to stop the best show of the last 10 (perhaps 20?) years after two seasons.

I'm ofcourse talking about Arrested Development.
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They've made a huge mistake.
 
Salvation said:
Looking at some of the hit sitcoms of today - am I the only one who thinks they wouldn't be fit to lace the ones from 90s?

Currently, we have Two and a Half Men, Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, Rules of Engagement.

None of those would have made it in the 90s which had Seinfeld, Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, Will and Grace, Frasier.

Obviously shows like Curb, Office, Modern Family, Scrubs which did away with laugh tracks have redefined the comedy genre but surely the Yanks can come up with something better than what's on offer right now? It is a pretty cherished genre even today.
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Surely you can name more than the safe, formulaic CBS sitcoms as examples of today's sitcoms.
 
Salvation said:
Looking at some of the hit sitcoms of today - am I the only one who thinks they wouldn't be fit to lace the ones from 90s?

Currently, we have Two and a Half Men, Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, Rules of Engagement.

None of those would have made it in the 90s which had Seinfeld, Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, Will and Grace, Frasier.

Obviously shows like Curb, Office, Modern Family, Scrubs which did away with laugh tracks have redefined the comedy genre but surely the Yanks can come up with something better than what's on offer right now? It is a pretty cherished genre even today.
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I agree although I will say that Will and Grace is fecking shit.

As for Big Bang, I didn't used to like it at all but since it took the Friends spot on E4 I've got into it a bit and it's actually quite funny.
 
Big Bang is infinitely better than Everybody Loves Raymond. Generally though the older stuff is better.
 
R_Nick said:
Big Bang is infinitely better than Everybody Loves Raymond. Generally though the older stuff is better.
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Raymond is wierd. I don't make time to watch it and have never gotten into it but when I do happen to have it on I enjoy it.
 
I don't know what defines "sitcom" and not really, but in terms of american comedy shows, heres the good stuff...

90's - Larry Sanders, NewsRadio, Seinfeld, Fresh Prince, Frasier, Married with Children, 3rd Rock from the Sun.

00's - Curb, Sunny, Office, Arrested Development, Eastbound, Party Down, Modern Family, Scrubs(first few years), 30 Rock, Parks and Recs(not the first season)

Seems 00's easily has the edge. Still though, so so so much awful stuff, Raymond, Home Improvement, Two and a Half Men, will never understand how basic stuff is so popular with these comedy shows and soaps, guess people just like stuff they don't have to think about.
 
Arrested Development, Archer, Bob's Burgers, Community, Curb, Eastbound and Down, 30 Rock, it's always sunny in Philly, Flight of the Conchords, Louie, Malcolm in the Middle, Parks and Recreation, Party Down.

All much better than Will and Grace and Raymond and some arguably better than Frasier and Seinfeld.
 
Absolutely love Bob's Burgers. The box set from the first series is released in the UK soon. I shall be purchasing it immediately :)
 
Community is brilliant.
 
Zen said:
I don't know what defines "sitcom" and not really, but in terms of american comedy shows, heres the good stuff...

90's - Larry Sanders, NewsRadio, Seinfeld, Fresh Prince, Frasier, Married with Children, 3rd Rock from the Sun.

00's - Curb, Sunny, Office, Arrested Development, Eastbound, Party Down, Modern Family, Scrubs(first few years), 30 Rock, Parks and Recs(not the first season)

Seems 00's easily has the edge. Still though, so so so much awful stuff, Raymond, Home Improvement, Two and a Half Men, will never understand how basic stuff is so popular with these comedy shows and soaps, guess people just like stuff they don't have to think about.
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Ivor Ballokov said:
Arrested Development, Archer, Bob's Burgers, Community, Curb, Eastbound and Down, 30 Rock, it's always sunny in Philly, Flight of the Conchords, Louie, Malcolm in the Middle, Parks and Recreation, Party Down.

All much better than Will and Grace and Raymond and some arguably better than Frasier and Seinfeld.
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When I say sitcoms, it the classic 90s version with laugh tracks and shot in front of a studio audience. Among those, the 00s equivalent of the 90s - the likes mentioned the opening post - are such a step below the likes of Seinfeld, Friends, etc.

Big Bang Theory is as pretentious as it gets, which adds to its unfunny nature.

While the likes of Will and Grace, Everybody Loves Raymond and Friends may not have been consistently good, when they did get it right (generally in their earlier seasons), they were excellent shows and a notch above the current lot.
 
I quite like Big Bang Theory...but then again it is aimed at my type of people.
 
So, basically, you've invented a restricting criteria for what you want to consider comparable, and then deemed the 90s the winner, despite the fact that the 00s has had many fantastic shows, but because they don't fit your criteria, they don't count?

That's a bit silly. The idea of sitcoms has changed somewhat. Things like Arrested Development, It's Always Sunny in Philly, Curb or Parks & Rec (all, incidentally, much better than Friends or Will & fecking Grace IMO) wouldn't have been made in the 90s, so your problem really seems to be that comedy shows have evolved and the best examples of them have become different beasts than they were in the 90s. The shows are out there.
 
Salvation said:
When I say sitcoms, it the classic 90s version with laugh tracks and shot in front of a studio audience. Among those, the 00s equivalent of the 90s - the likes mentioned the opening post - are such a step below the likes of Seinfeld, Friends, etc.

Big Bang Theory is as pretentious as it gets, which adds to its unfunny nature.

While the likes of Will and Grace, Everybody Loves Raymond and Friends may not have been consistently good, when they did get it right (generally in their earlier seasons), they were excellent shows and a notch above the current lot.
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See thats what I wasn't sure on....whether we talking about sitcoms or the general use of shows with laugh tracks. It's unfair comparison really as nowadays, most of the better writers dont want/need a laugh track and in the 80's/90's a laugh track was thrown on anything just because it was the 'it' thing to do.
 
Mockney said:
So, basically, you've invented a restricting criteria for what you want to consider comparable, and then deemed the 90s the winner, despite the fact that the 00s has had many fantastic shows, but because they don't fit your criteria, they don't count?

That's a bit silly. The idea of sitcoms has changed somewhat. Things like Arrested Development, It's Always Sunny in Philly, Curb or Parks & Rec (all, incidentally, much better than Friends or Will & fecking Grace IMO) wouldn't have been made in the 90s, so your problem really seems to be that comedy shows have evolved and the best examples of them have become different beasts than they were in the 90s. The shows are out there.
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So basically you didn't get the point of this thread and walked in to show your high and mighty-ness so that people bow down to your superior wisdom, even though it stems for not being able to grasp the actual idea?

I know the likes of Arrested Development, Curb, Office, are better than the 90s shows. The point was, if people are still sticking to the 90s format of employing laugh tracks after screening it to a studio audience, then they are not doing as good a job of it, as they did in the 90s.

There, another paragraph for you to come back and feel superior about.
 
It's got nothing to do with him being superior, I wish people would going that route because they have nothing else to go to when replying to Mockney. It's the fact that comedy has evolved to the point where laugh tracks were used in about 95% of comedy shows in the 80's and 90's(with the best writers accepting it as well whereas now they can say feck off and take their talents to a cable channel if its forced on them) to probably less than 40%.

And for what its worth, How I Met Your Mother is probably better than Raymond and Home Improvement, which were 2 of the top 5 sitcoms from the 90's. So it's not all that bad.
 
Err...Ok then. I think you've supremely overreated there mate.

Zen is spot on. The creative talents of the time aren't making laugh track 3 set sitcoms anymore. They're making the Curbs & Arrested Developments. Of course those kind of sitcoms aren't as good or popular as they were when those type of sitcoms where a big deal. In the same way that Friends or Will & Grace weren't the same kind of thing as the Family based/social commentary sitcoms that ruled the 70s.

Curb for example, is what the people (or person) who made Seinfeld is making now, because thats the kind of thing that the guys who used to make shows like Seinfeld make now.

The Larry Sanders Show was well ahead of its time.
 
I guess Alf counts as 80s;)

Always surprises me when guys like Friends, it's clearly aimed at women.
 
True. I kinda knew about the cable aspect. Guessing HBO with Curb took the lead?

That being said, there is still a market for those kind of shows, considering networks are still persisting with it. One of those things where it makes more sense for them to take a stance and force-fade them away.

Dunno why you folks don't like Everybody Loves Raymond. It is a very good show with minimalist resources.
 
Richter said:
I guess Alf counts as 80s;)

Always surprises me when guys like Friends, it's clearly aimed at women.
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Friends early seasons was a very good show. Think about 3 seasons down it become cringe-worthy. By the time the likes of Bruce Willis and Christina Applegate made appearances, it became an insult to TV.

That is the nature of American Television though. Work hard to establish a franchise and then milk it for all its worth by rapidly guiding it towards garbage-hood.
 
Also, even with the new age, handheld/one camera shows, you do feel most of them have seen its glory days. Curb, 30 Rock, Office, are the ones that I've kept a track on and they have or are slowly going downhill.
 
Also something like Modern Family is a very traditional sitcom, just made (aptly) in a modern way. It's based around a family, a grumpy patriarch, an emasculated son in law, dumb children/smart children, hot mom/wife. It's basically covering all the basis a Cosby Show, Married with Children or Raymond would cover, except it added very 00s sensibilities & techniques like gay dads and the post Office mockumentary style.
 
That's probably the reason why I couldn't get into Modern Family. It's extremely formulaic with its setting whereas the entire spree of mockumentaries have tried to do something very different to what the 90s did (either family-oriented or friends-oriented setting).

Which is kinda strange cos Modern Family did seem to have a very good cast and by all means is a very well made show.
 
Nearco said:
Only arguably is you've no taste.
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Not entirely sure what you're getting are you saying Seinfeld and Frasier are better than the shows I listed or worse? It is all personal taste but I'd argue Arrested Development and Curb are two of the finest sitcoms ever made as is Frasier and although I've never got into it Seinfeld is held in that esteem too.
 
didnt frasier take most awards for every season it was aired? fantastic show! even friends to this day is incredibly easy to watch and enjoy and of course fresh prince..
 
Salvation said:
When I say sitcoms, it the classic 90s version with laugh tracks and shot in front of a studio audience. Among those, the 00s equivalent of the 90s - the likes mentioned the opening post - are such a step below the likes of Seinfeld, Friends, etc.
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Well of course the 2000s version of the "classic 90s version" of sitcoms "with laugh tracks and shot in front of a studio audience" isn't as good as the 90's version. The whole concept is stale by now. What the hell do you expect after 10+ years of that stuff being shoved down our throats. That's incredibly restrictive criteria for "sitcoms" because sitcoms are so much more than that, especially now, but if that's what you're trying to say, then yes. You're absolutely right.

In fact I find that I don't make the time to watch anything that qualifies as your definition of a sitcom anymore because of how formulaic it is. Not on principle of course. I don't sit there and say "this is formulaic" and change the channel. They certainly have their comedy moments as well so I don't mean to say that they're not funny. They just don't surprise me anymore so I don't care to tune in every week. That kind of show makes me feel like I could find it on Netflix in 10 years when I'm bored so I don't need to watch it now.
 
People here need to watch The Community, especially those who love pop culture references. Very well made, non formulaic and ambitious sitcom, if it can be called that.

Arrested Development would not be topped for quite some time as far as I am concerned. But right now sitcom scene is not too bad. Park and Recreations is very good rightnow , Office US is past its peak but was good till S4/5. TBBT is a classic hack sitcom writer creation, it is but still has a lot of funny moments.

As far as bad goes, Two and half men does infuriates me. HIMYM has gotten progressively worse. People still hung up on trying to find Friends II with 4 such shows tried last season and one in Happy ending getting a second go. A lot of failed sitcom pilots also trotting around since last 2 seasons.
 
crappycraperson said:
People here need to watch The Community, especially those who love pop culture references. Very well made, non formulaic and ambitious sitcom, if it can be called that..
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Community is actually quite formulaic. Its got the classic set up of an odd, diverse group of characters in a co-reliant group and ends every episode with a "lesson learnt uplifting ending" style jobby, where one of the characters realises they were wrong to be selfish or stubborn, and does right by their friendsuurgggggghhhhhhhh!!

That said it's very good, irreverent and the cast are excellent, and certainly a good example of a modern sitcom, but I wouldn't hold it up as the best example of the noughties anti-sitcom. Something like It's Always Sunny is far less sitcommy....But then of course, you might not have been trying to do that.
 
Mockney said:
Community is actually quite formulaic. Its got the classic set up of an odd, diverse group of characters in a co-reliant group and ends every episode with a "lesson learnt uplifting ending" style jobby, where one of the characters realises they were wrong to be selfish or stubborn, and does right by their friendsuurgggggghhhhhhhh!!

That said it's very good, irreverent and the cast are excellent, and certainly a good example of a modern sitcom, but I wouldn't hold it up as the best example of the noughties anti-sitcom. Something like It's Always Sunny is far less sitcommy....But then of course, you might not have been trying to do that.
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Good point. It is very Scrubs like in that sense. Still I think it is very intelligently made comedy, one which takes many a risks by trying to pay homage or spoof different genres. My Dinner with Abed episode was class IMO.

I love Sunny and it is definitely anti-conventional sitcom but still a sitcom.
 
Oh I agree, Community's good. It's very well made, and written, and acted, as is Parks & Rec.
 
All the 90s sitcoms mentioned so far are shite. With the possible exception of Seinfeld. Which I never really got, personally, but obviously has some merit.

So basically 00s sitcoms >>> 90s sitcoms.

Why no mention of UK productions anyway? It's been a steady downwards trend since the brilliance of Fawlty Towers until Ricky Gervais gave it a much-needed shot in the arm with basically everything he's made throughout, you guessed it, the 00s.
 
Have you even seen all of the 90's sitcoms mentioned?

And theres no mention of British shows because the guy asked about American sitcoms I'm assuming -_-, though Father Ted is clearly a classic.
 
Yup. Have watched all the 90s sitcoms. I was a student in the 90s. Hence I watched a LOT of television.

I enjoyed some of them at the time. Watching repeats has made me realise how badly they hold up against stuff released in the last decade or so.

Good point about Father Ted. The lone standard bearer for a decade of tosh.

EDIT: Turns out I was being thick with the UK mention. Still, interesting to discuss UK stuff too.
 
Just find it weird that you seemingly rate Gervais incredibly highly, yet find two of his favourite shows shite in Seinfeld and Larry Sanders.

Don't think 90's was that bad either, I can still watch stuff like Red Dwarf, Bottom and Alan Patridge easily too, and Spaced was also created in the 90's. But just like American, the hugely popular stuff was mostly awful.
 
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