Amadou Onana | Ornstein: Villa agree ~50m deal

Status
Not open for further replies.
CantonaManc said:
Click to expand...


What exactly does Rio mean by this :lol: To be clear I was never a fan of the Felliani signing and never warmed to him at any point, but he was thought of in many different ways by many people, including fans, managers and football analysts, so I'm not quite sure what Rio is trying to say here.
 
Cloud7 said:
What exactly does Rio mean by this :lol: To be clear I was never a fan of the Felliani signing and never warmed to him at any point, but he was thought of in many different ways by many people, including fans, managers and football analysts, so I'm not quite sure what Rio is trying to say here.
Click to expand...
Think Rio's thought process is big Belgian lad > plays for Everton > engage mouth.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Think Rio's thought process is big Belgian lad > plays for Everton > engage mouth.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he's not 100% wrong IMO insofar as neither of them are exactly craftsmen on the ball and able to control play or even reliable in their passing, and you're counting on them more for physical attributes as well as certain positional competencies. He's also not wrong that in both summers we've been linked with players who would make far more sense for the side as it stands. But not like-for-like players, obviously...
 
Not really seeing that comparison. Pretty lazy from Rio.

A big problem with Fellaini was everything about him at Everton that was good was as an attacking threat. That's where he was a monster to deal with. In a scrapping team that style worked. At United that wasn't the same expectation and asked to play a deep role he's a fish out of water.

Onana is already playing deeper positions and has potential at his age. I guess you could say they're both from Everton, Belgian and tall so it's a comparison but two of those "attributes" are meaningless.
 
Waste of time and money - brings nothing new/better to the squad
 
Free transfer, we get a similar option in terms of ability in our goalie to cover De Gea's exit. Sure, not a prime Neuer or prime Buffon, but he's capable of doing a solid job.

Edit: wrong Onana :lol:
 
Last edited:
I can see why we might be after this player but if there was any interest, I’m not sure we will pursue it this window. Considering how much Everton paid for him to start with, I’d presume he would cost too much to take him from Goodison and I’m not sure we will raise enough funds in time.
 
He covers ground really quickly, we wouldn’t have to worry about ball carrying midfielders as much.
 
At this price point, why didn’t we throw our hat in the ring for Lavia? Both he and Onana need a fair amount of work, but Lavia looks the better prospect.

Not averse to this player, but for the kind of money being mooted, isn’t there better out there?
 
Fortitude said:
At this price point, why didn’t we throw our hat in the ring for Lavia? Both he and Onana need a fair amount of work, but Lavia looks the better prospect.

Not averse to this player, but for the kind of money being mooted, isn’t there better out there?
Click to expand...
Lavia is a deeper midfieid player and Onana would play as a #8 in a interior role in midfield imo. And having watched Lavia a number of times last season, his passing from a deeper role isn't of the required quality as yet. So targeting someone like a Amrabat instead of Lavia would be the logical move due to Amrabat being a better fit for what we require now in our midfield. Amrabat's passing ability is superior to Lavia's from deeper role and adds more creativity to the team.

Adding Onana as a #8 also potentially helps raise the level of the team. Because not only would he improve us with his surging runs through midfield, he also has the physical, athletic and aerial capabilities to defend opposition transitions, which we seem to be weak at if we want to play the game higher up the pitch. And also Onana would be a good fit to thwart opposition aerial attacks.

I'm not sure if it's possible, but signing both Amrabat and Onana would improve us a lot. It would raise the level of the build up play from deeper with Amrabat, and Onana would improve our defensive transitions which we seem to be weak at. And eventhough Rio Ferdinand has compared Onana with Fellaini, it's a very poor comparison because Onana has the pace and power along with the ability to carry the ball which is very dangerous for any opponent.
 
Adnan said:
Lavia is a deeper midfieid player and Onana would play as a #8 in a interior role in midfield imo. And having watched Lavia a number of times last season, his passing from a deeper role isn't of the required quality as yet. So targeting someone like a Amrabat instead of Lavia would be the logical move due to Amrabat being a better fit for what we require now in our midfield. Amrabat's passing ability is superior to Lavia's from deeper role and adds more creativity to the team.

Adding Onana as a #8 also potentially helps raise the level of the team. Because not only would he improve us with his surging runs through midfield, he also has the physical, athletic and aerial capabilities to defend opposition transitions, which we seem to be weak at if we want to play the game higher up the pitch. And also Onana would be a good fit to thwart opposition aerial attacks.

I'm not sure if it's possible, but signing both Amrabat and Onana would improve us a lot. It would raise the level of the build up play from deeper with Amrabat, and Onana would improve our defensive transitions which we seem to be weak at. And eventhough Rio Ferdinand has compared Onana with Fellaini, it's a very poor comparison because Onana has the pace and power along with the ability to carry the ball which is very dangerous for any opponent.
Click to expand...
I thought he could play both as a deeper player and a ball carrier? Take in what you’ve said, but thought it was applicable to Lavia too.

re. Last paragraph. Would be a boon for our entire season to get two in who can actually play midfield properly.
 
Fortitude said:
I thought he could play both as a deeper player and a ball carrier? Take in what you’ve said, but thought it was applicable to Lavia too.

re. Last paragraph. Would be a boon for our entire season to get two in who can actually play midfield properly.
Click to expand...
I think he's a deeper midfield player with good ability to evade the press. But his passing I don't believe is at the requisite level at the moment. I think he's someone that needs to be developed further but I'm not sure he'll ever have a expansive passing game. And I think we should target someone who provides that little bit extra on the ball in a deeper midfield role, so we can progress the ball more effectively.

Amrabat might not be the longterm solution for the deeper midfield role. But he's a natural fit for a team that is looking for a midfielder who is comfortable as the first receiver in midfield. Casemiro isn't that player and never has been that player.

So for me if we can add Amrabat in the current window, then we're 3 players away from having a potentially elite level build up phase. And both Varane and Casemiro have been fantastic players and have had great careers. But I'd personally look to upgrade both players and sign a starting #6 and a starting RCB for next season along with a RB who is comfortable with the ball and can help us progress the play via his passing ability. So when you upgrade the first 11, the player being upgraded upon should become a rotation option. And that's how I feel you strengthen the squad.
 
I think he balances out the club's spending this summer Mount, Onana, Hojlund and Onana (GK). That's a feasible summer because two of the weaknesses of the squad are addressed. It's also good of the recruitment policy for the average ages of players acquired this summer. I think that's decent business all things considered.
 
Tough, physically imposing(6'5) presence in the midfield in 6/8 role. He bullies PL midfielders for fun. I remember him knocking Casemiro down in an ordinary shoulder to shoulder duel in the FA cup.

He's basically a younger, more talented/capable version of McTominay(maybe not in front of the goal). Better defensively and at ball carrying. Adds significant physical presence to any midfield(team).

If he came here, i wouldn't mind it at all(replacing McTominay), but i know it won't happen so it doesn't really matter.
 
siw2007 said:
I can see why we might be after this player but if there was any interest, I’m not sure we will pursue it this window. Considering how much Everton paid for him to start with, I’d presume he would cost too much to take him from Goodison and I’m not sure we will raise enough funds in time.
Click to expand...
Everton is one of a few clubs who would accept McTominay in a player plus cash swap. We also have good relations with them so a deal could be done if we approached them.
 
Adnan said:
I think he's a deeper midfield player with good ability to evade the press. But his passing I don't believe is at the requisite level at the moment. I think he's someone that needs to be developed further but I'm not sure he'll ever have a expansive passing game. And I think we should target someone who provides that little bit extra on the ball in a deeper midfield role, so we can progress the ball more effectively.

Amrabat might not be the longterm solution for the deeper midfield role. But he's a natural fit for a team that is looking for a midfielder who is comfortable as the first receiver in midfield. Casemiro isn't that player and never has been that player.

So for me if we can add Amrabat in the current window, then we're 3 players away from having a potentially elite level build up phase. And both Varane and Casemiro have been fantastic players and have had great careers. But I'd personally look to upgrade both players and sign a starting #6 and a starting RCB for next season along with a RB who is comfortable with the ball and can help us progress the play via his passing ability. So when you upgrade the first 11, the player being upgraded upon should become a rotation option. And that's how I feel you strengthen the squad.
Click to expand...
Don't they both? I guess you're saying Onana is more ready now, even if that's the case?

Agree with the sentiment of your post.
 
Fortitude said:
Don't they both? I guess you're saying Onana is more ready now, even if that's the case?

Agree with the sentiment of your post.
Click to expand...
They both need developing but Onana is more of a #8 with fantastic physical, athletic and aerial qualities which we require. Lavia is more of a deeper lying midfield player which we also require, but it would imo be best if targeted a different profile of DM because I dont believe Lavia should be a longterm option for us in that position. I think better players than Lavia will emerge in the next 12 months who will hopefully be more cultured on the ball.
 
Adnan said:
Lavia is a deeper midfieid player and Onana would play as a #8 in a interior role in midfield imo. And having watched Lavia a number of times last season, his passing from a deeper role isn't of the required quality as yet. So targeting someone like a Amrabat instead of Lavia would be the logical move due to Amrabat being a better fit for what we require now in our midfield. Amrabat's passing ability is superior to Lavia's from deeper role and adds more creativity to the team.

Adding Onana as a #8 also potentially helps raise the level of the team. Because not only would he improve us with his surging runs through midfield, he also has the physical, athletic and aerial capabilities to defend opposition transitions, which we seem to be weak at if we want to play the game higher up the pitch. And also Onana would be a good fit to thwart opposition aerial attacks.

I'm not sure if it's possible, but signing both Amrabat and Onana would improve us a lot. It would raise the level of the build up play from deeper with Amrabat, and Onana would improve our defensive transitions which we seem to be weak at. And eventhough Rio Ferdinand has compared Onana with Fellaini, it's a very poor comparison because Onana has the pace and power along with the ability to carry the ball which is very dangerous for any opponent.
Click to expand...
If only there's a way to convince Everton to swap Onana with Mctominay plus 15 mill. Then hopefully we can Amrabat and Onana.
 
Adnan said:
They both need developing but Onana is more of a #8 with fantastic physical, athletic and aerial qualities which we require. Lavia is more of a deeper lying midfield player which we also require, but it would imo be best if targeted a different profile of DM because I dont believe Lavia should be a longterm option for us in that position. I think better players than Lavia will emerge in the next 12 months who will hopefully be more cultured on the ball.
Click to expand...
OK, I get it. Lavia is more of a #6 and Onana a natural complementary #8. Interesting that you don't seem to rate him that highly.

Haven't seen anything much of Onana, and certainly not enough of him to even think of him as a desirable for us in an open market, but it's easy to see why he would be of interest as he looks the part with, we would assume, massive room for growth given his age and erratic nature at the moment. I'm not averse to the player as he seems to have the raw tools we need, but is he ready to contribute to the degree we require (we badly need a functional player to come in and provide what we lack)? You mentioned Amrabat in your previous post, but I am pretty sure this is going to be an either/or situation. If by some miracle it were to be both, where does that leave Mainoo and Hannibal?
 
Fortitude said:
OK, I get it. Lavia is more of a #6 and Onana a natural complementary #8. Interesting that you don't seem to rate him that highly.

Haven't seen anything much of Onana, and certainly not enough of him to even think of him as a desirable for us in an open market, but it's easy to see why he would be of interest as he looks the part with, we would assume, massive room for growth given his age and erratic nature at the moment. I'm not averse to the player as he seems to have the raw tools we need, but is he ready to contribute to the degree we require (we badly need a functional player to come in and provide what we lack)? You mentioned Amrabat in your previous post, but I am pretty sure this is going to be an either/or situation. If by some miracle it were to be both, where does that leave Mainoo and Hannibal?
Click to expand...
It's not that I don't rate him but rather I would prefer that we target a replacement for Casemiro who is just as press resistant as Lavia but with the added benefit of having a more expansive passing range. I think that player or players will emerge by next summer and the way I'm reading things, I feel we'll prioritise a starting #6 alongside a RCB next summer.

If it's a either/or situation then Amrabat should be prioritised ahead of Onana imo. But Onana absolutely can contribute and his ability to defend transitions is quite impressive. For example the Wolves players wouldn't have been able to dribble away from him, and his ability on the ball where he can surge forward with the ball is also a handy weapon to have due to his size and pace. And we're a team that isn't the best at defending transitions. And if we want to play the game in the opponent's half via a higher defensive line then defending transitions against quick players has to be something we need to improve on. And the only way we can do that imo is by signing players who are going raise both the technical level in possession aswell as raising the physical and athletic level to control/contain transitions which is extremely important to maintain overall control. And I understand people preferring to see the more technical players thrive. But I think it's important we read the room as far the league is concerned and develop a team that can exert control in possession and out of possesion.

1: We exert zonal and positional control in possession.

2: We have the ability to press/counter press in coordination to try and win the ball back, proactively.

3: We have the ability to defend transitions in larger spaces.

And as far as Mainoo and Hannibal are concerned, I think Mainoo is going to be integrated into the team and ten Hag seemed to have had a plan for him in a deeper role before he unfortunately got injured. And as far as Hannibal is concerned, he needs games for his development. So he either gets them at United or he goes on loan. But he's definitely a player who I feel ticks a lot of boxes and is someone that I want to see in a more possession dominant setup.

And from what I've seen at youth level, there's a number of young midfielders that have started coming through at u18 level who are showing a extremely good level when it comes to evading the press and playing through the lines for their age groups. So I think in a few years we'll see at least one or two hopefully kick on and fulfil their potential.
 
Adnan said:
It's not that I don't rate him but rather I would prefer that we target a replacement for Casemiro who is just as press resistant as Lavia but with the added benefit of having a more expansive passing range. I think that player or players will emerge by next summer and the way I'm reading things, I feel we'll prioritise a starting #6 alongside a RCB next summer.

If it's a either/or situation then Amrabat should be prioritised ahead of Onana imo. But Onana absolutely can contribute and his ability to defend transitions is quite impressive. For example the Wolves players wouldn't have been able to dribble away from him, and his ability on the ball where he can surge forward with the ball is also a handy weapon to have due to his size and pace. And we're a team that isn't the best at defending transitions. And if we want to play the game in the opponent's half via a higher defensive line then defending transitions against quick players has to be something we need to improve on. And the only way we can do that imo is by signing players who are going raise both the technical level in possession aswell as raising the physical and athletic level to control/contain transitions which is extremely important to maintain overall control. And I understand people preferring to see the more technical players thrive. But I think it's important we read the room as far the league is concerned and develop a team that can exert control in possession and out of possesion.

1: We exert zonal and positional control in possession.

2: We have the ability to press/counter press in coordination to try and win the ball back, proactively.

3: We have the ability to defend transitions in larger spaces.

And as far as Mainoo and Hannibal are concerned, I think Mainoo is going to be integrated into the team and ten Hag seemed to have had a plan for him in a deeper role before he unfortunately got injured. And as far as Hannibal is concerned, he needs games for his development. So he either gets them at United or he goes on loan. But he's definitely a player who I feel ticks a lot of boxes and is someone that I want to see in a more possession dominant setup.

And from what I've seen at youth level, there's a number of young midfielders that have started coming through at u18 level who are showing a extremely good level when it comes to evading the press and playing through the lines for their age groups. So I think in a few years we'll see at least one or two hopefully kick on and fulfil their potential.
Click to expand...
Good points - numerous ways to control midfield and we excel at literally none of them; the passing route with someone who can beat the press is my preference because it can be done more consistently by most, but ball carrying and breaking ranks through midfield is special. Quite clear why we wanted FDJ so badly despite my reservations about his character - what a Moussa Dembele would be worth in today’s game! A consistent ball-carrier changes the entire dynamic for both teams, as the pressure is then on the opponent to deal with the clear and present threat that’s rapidly breaching lines, obviously opening up the pitch for us as opposing players are forced towards the threat/ball abandoning their own briefs temporarily. Transformative, for sure - certainly far better than what we serve up, anyway!

He certainly has merits and I’m not against him being targeted. I don’t know the market for this profile, and as you state, and as is immediately obvious, he also brings far more brawn to the role as well as stature, which is a problem for the opposition in and of itself.

But yeah no aversion to him, just wondered if for the expenditure, he was the best attainable.
 
Lash said:
Not sure how you came to this conclusion, we only have Scott in the squad with his profile and we're open to selling him.
Click to expand...
He's completely ordinary - I just don't see him as enough of an upgrade on what we have
 
The sad part about this potential transfer is that even as a midfielder he wouldn't be the best Onana on the ball at the club.

JustUnitedLevelsTheseDays
 


I honestly think that anyone who thinks hes similar to Fellaini (Rio) is fing stupid

1) He's fast. Fellaini was the slowest person on the pitch
2) He loves a tackle. He's more similar to AWB in that sense going to ground. Fellaini liked a tussle sure, so he could elbow someone but on the floor no. He was just big
3) He uses his speed to be very direct and run at players, able to have a good dribble. Fellaini only ever beat a player by accident
4) The other side is that Fellaini was a threat in the air. Onana has played over 20 games for 3 different clubs and in all that time has scored a single headed goal

He's not the pass master type CM I have wanted us to sign for ages. I'm not sure he'll develop the creativity to open up defences with a pass, let alone have the character to get on the ball and make 80 passes while you're doing it so that we dominate the ball.

But we never seem to sign that type of midfielder anyway other than Eriksen who hasnt really done it himself. We tend to sign midfielders for their running. And I think he's going to be a really good midfielder for that, dribbling and tackling. Way better than the McTom and Fred type players the club were suggesting are good enough to be starters.
 
mitchmouse said:
He's completely ordinary - I just don't see him as enough of an upgrade on what we have
Click to expand...
I can't claim to watch him very regularly, but he always impressed me when watching him with my brother in law, who's an everton fan.
He's a physical presence due to his height, he covers ground quickly and is a good ball carrier. A faster and more defensive McTominay - who's 4 year's his Junior, is an upgrade.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.