Your servant, sir.
I don't think we need to go crazy with deadlines given the circumstances - just let people pick when they get around to it - then I can do the draw once you're all done.
All Time Reserves Draft | Quarters
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
Your servant, sir.
I don't think we need to go crazy with deadlines given the circumstances - just let people pick when they get around to it - then I can do the draw once you're all done.
The semi-final and and final reinforcement rounds should be sheep format as per the OP.
We don't mind snake format too
We don't mind snake format too
Snake seems more reasonable given the circumstances, I'd say: In practice hardly a player was showcased during the quarter finals, so in the spirit of letting as many players shine as possible, I reckon you should be allowed to pick freely here (rather than risking having anyone blocked).
Snake is fine with me also
Me three. I'm fine with the snake approach for now. Given the horrible QF stage, it's better to keep things at a decent pace particularly as we don't really have a draft master here (@Šjor Bepo may be the interim one, I think?).
I am obviously on board with any plan which did not involve the possibility of me getting sheep.
RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis 10. van der Sar 11. Heynckes 12. Wimmer 13. Ruggeri 14. Lerby 15. Maradona 16. Thuram
Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Renzo De Vecchi 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Felix Loustau 13 Toninho Cerezo 14. Ciro Ferrara 15. Djemba Djemba 16. Ali Daei
Skizzo - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano 11. Joël Bats 12. Vavá 13. Wolfgang Overath 14. Gianluigi Buffon 15. Pele 16. Baresi
mazhar13 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski 11. Schumacher 12. Conte 13. Suarez 14. Alves 15. Messi 16. Rijkaard
Are we ready to proceed?
Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Renzo De Vecchi 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Felix Loustau 13 Toninho Cerezo 14. Ciro Ferrara 15. Djemba Djemba 16. Ali Daei
Skizzo - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano 11. Joël Bats 12. Vavá 13. Wolfgang Overath 14. Gianluigi Buffon 15. Pele 16. Baresi
mazhar13 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski 11. Schumacher 12. Conte 13. Suarez 14. Alves 15. Messi 16. Rijkaard
Are we ready to proceed?
Wtf matebruv
@Invictus & @Šjor Bepo were expected to win this draft
I fully expect something like this to happen in any sheep format where I am involved.Sorry for the delay.
El Matador
RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis 10. van der Sar 11. Heynckes 12. Wimmer 13. Ruggeri 14. Lerby 15. Kempes
Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Renzo De Vecchi 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Felix Loustau 13 Toninho Cerezo 14. Ciro Ferrara 15.
Skizzo - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano 11. Joël Bats 12. Vavá 13. Wolfgang Overath 14. Gianluigi Buffon 15.
mazhar13 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski 11. Schumacher 12. Conte 13. Suarez 14. Alves 15.
@Tuppet
El Matador
RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis 10. van der Sar 11. Heynckes 12. Wimmer 13. Ruggeri 14. Lerby 15. Kempes
Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Renzo De Vecchi 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Felix Loustau 13 Toninho Cerezo 14. Ciro Ferrara 15.
Skizzo - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano 11. Joël Bats 12. Vavá 13. Wolfgang Overath 14. Gianluigi Buffon 15.
mazhar13 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski 11. Schumacher 12. Conte 13. Suarez 14. Alves 15.
@Tuppet
Kempes?
Oh ok.
Btw @Chesterlestreet I was really curious about your team, esp the Deyna-Sindelar dynamic. If you don't mind could you briefly describe your set-up and what you had in mind for your side? Cheers.
With pleasure - coming up shortly.
Hopefully them bunch of cnuts go away and not ruin this further.
I'm off on a 2 week holiday, a welcome break I suppose. Going west to lurk near Skizzo's patch of land.
I'm off on a 2 week holiday, a welcome break I suppose. Going west to lurk near Skizzo's patch of land.
RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis 10. van der Sar 11. Heynckes 12. Wimmer 13. Ruggeri 14. Lerby 15. Kempes
Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Renzo De Vecchi 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Felix Loustau 13 Toninho Cerezo 14. Ciro Ferrara 15. Seeler
Skizzo - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano 11. Joël Bats 12. Vavá 13. Wolfgang Overath 14. Gianluigi Buffon 15. Riva
mazhar13 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski 11. Schumacher 12. Conte 13. Suarez 14. Alves 15.
@mazhar13
Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola 10. Renzo De Vecchi 11. Amadeo Carrizo 12. Felix Loustau 13 Toninho Cerezo 14. Ciro Ferrara 15. Seeler
Skizzo - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano 11. Joël Bats 12. Vavá 13. Wolfgang Overath 14. Gianluigi Buffon 15. Riva
mazhar13 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski 11. Schumacher 12. Conte 13. Suarez 14. Alves 15.
@mazhar13
Now, this is the XI after the upgrades:
@Joga Bonito
Maldini/Rosato: They stay deep (i.e. they don't push up to press or intercept, but play a conservative game). As far as roles are concerned, I suppose you could portray Maldini as more “cultured” as they say, but it's not very relevant: What the one does is in practice quite similar to what the other does – but if the opponent sports a classic box player of some description, Rosato will be the one tasked with dealing with him – as he dealt, famously, with Gerd Müller, among others.
Fullbacks: Balanced – meaning that both will venture forward to some degree, and seek to overlap/combine.
Zito: Holder. Nothing particularly fancy about his role – he stays fairly deep and his task is twofold: He protects the defence – and he contributes to starting plays (being a very tidy passer).
Jansen: Hound. He hounds the opposition, covering a lot of ground, always seeking to intercept when the other team have the ball. Key strengths: Engine and brains (but is, like Zito, a very tidy passer).
Deyna: Playmaker. The main one, that is. When Sindelar drops down, Deyna pushes up – but this isn't something which happens mechanically, as it were, at least not ideally: It's an interchange of sorts, an interplay – where Sindelar becomes a secondary playmaker and Deyna, at times, a primary finisher: Not least from distance, from the edge of the box or even deeper. Key strength (in addition to what you'd expect from a main playmaker): Finishing (tricky, spectacular finishes, to be exact).
Sindelar: Striker. Role: False nine. He's the main finisher, but he frequently drops deep to function as an orchestrator. See above.
Wingers:
Lato: Will frequently drift – and storm – into the box. However, he is disciplined and tactically excellent more than anything. When needed, he will operate as a pure winger – whose main function will be to combine with the overlapping Armfield. Excellent finisher, both with feet and head.
Joya: Role: Pretty much a classic winger - less of a key role, you could say, but an extremely dangerous player.
Fullbacks: Balanced – meaning that both will venture forward to some degree, and seek to overlap/combine.
Zito: Holder. Nothing particularly fancy about his role – he stays fairly deep and his task is twofold: He protects the defence – and he contributes to starting plays (being a very tidy passer).
Jansen: Hound. He hounds the opposition, covering a lot of ground, always seeking to intercept when the other team have the ball. Key strengths: Engine and brains (but is, like Zito, a very tidy passer).
Deyna: Playmaker. The main one, that is. When Sindelar drops down, Deyna pushes up – but this isn't something which happens mechanically, as it were, at least not ideally: It's an interchange of sorts, an interplay – where Sindelar becomes a secondary playmaker and Deyna, at times, a primary finisher: Not least from distance, from the edge of the box or even deeper. Key strength (in addition to what you'd expect from a main playmaker): Finishing (tricky, spectacular finishes, to be exact).
Sindelar: Striker. Role: False nine. He's the main finisher, but he frequently drops deep to function as an orchestrator. See above.
Wingers:
Lato: Will frequently drift – and storm – into the box. However, he is disciplined and tactically excellent more than anything. When needed, he will operate as a pure winger – whose main function will be to combine with the overlapping Armfield. Excellent finisher, both with feet and head.
Joya: Role: Pretty much a classic winger - less of a key role, you could say, but an extremely dangerous player.
@Joga Bonito
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@Chesterlestreet I really like that front 4. Every one of those, as you drafted them, got a nod of the head and an "oof, good pick" seal of approval from me.
Not that it counts for much, as it were, but there you go.
Not that it counts for much, as it were, but there you go.
That's a cracking side @Chesterlestreet . Love the wings in particular, esp the Joya-Evra tandem who would be a real pain in the arse to deal with. Can't fully get my head around the Deyna-Sindelar duo as it stands, but only because I feel the latter was also an orchestrator of sorts and there might be a potential clash of interests. Not that Deyna was a ball hogging selfish player by any means, so it could work, with Sindelar being the more pronounced goalscoring and incisive creative influence and Deyna being the playmaking heartbeat of the side. Guess it primarily boils down to Sindelar's playing style.
That Zito-Jansen axis is the best thing about that side imo. Quite hard to find such a heavy-hitting combo with composure, tactical acumen, discipline and of course a fair share of ball playing ability thrown in. Lovely midfield that.
That Zito-Jansen axis is the best thing about that side imo. Quite hard to find such a heavy-hitting combo with composure, tactical acumen, discipline and of course a fair share of ball playing ability thrown in. Lovely midfield that.
Thanks, man - yes, I like it myself, if I say so. Would it have brought me glory? Oh, hard to tell. I think Sindelar would've been a liability, ultimately - just the way it is with the prewar boys: You can't realistically sell them all the way - not when they feature so prominently: He's the key figure in the whole thing, after all.
And that is, I suppose, the main problem with going for something like that: How do you upgrade? I struggled a bit at the first hurdle. Evra is a purely cosmetic upgrade - just a more well known name to push, he doesn't offer anything in particular which lifts the team (to put it in such terms). Joya is an upgrade - and offers something other than Lennox (who I had there to begin with), making the winger combo (him and Lato) more interesting and, well, varied.
But from there? Thing is that I can't drop Sindelar - that's the premise: Ride as long as you can with that basic system - and, well, there it is. Most people probably wouldn't label Sindelar final worthy here - and I can't say I blame them very much for that either. He is an old timer, there is very little to offer in the form of hard evidence/footage...and, yeah, we all know the game.
Good to hear! Yes, I probably would have focused quite a bit on those two: I do think they complement both each other - and Deyna - if you regard it as a midfield trio of sorts. Jansen is a real favourite of mine - such a clever player, always moving into precisely the area he needs to be in to either disrupt the other team, or make himself available for a pass. Great and un-shiny player, if one can put it like that.
As for Sindelar-Deyna: Yep, you said it, basically: It's that combo you have to sell. And with Sindelar as the key figure - well, it's not so easy, as Van Gaal says. Deyna you can sell easily - there is loads of material to show people, plenty of examples of how he operated as a playmaker, plenty of goals he scored (of the sort I have in mind here): But he didn't do any of this as some sort of foil for a false nine who is supposed to be the Main Man of the entire operation. Which means that you have to sell Sindelar, individually, to a pretty great extent: And can you do that - with the limitations he comes with, evidence wise? Tricky.
Aye, that's always the struggle when you have a team balance between players you have in a system, and players that are a bit more, let's say, recognizable.
I'm contemplating that very thing now with BBRBB's team. Riva for Vava seemed an obvious choice for me, but the second one may be a marginal upgrade at best. Not even fully sure if it will be a quality upgrade or just a different name doing the same role just as well.
I'm also glad we didn't have to try and pick replacements on our original team, because it was probably our favourite team we drafted and we didn't really like the idea of dropping many of them.
I think the upgrade "problem" is partly - at least - due to the nature of the pool: Quality wise it's pretty evenly distributed, really - there were players picked in the last couple of rounds who don't compare unfavourably to many who went in the beginning. Normally, there will be clear upgrades available, almost regardless of what approach you have opted for: This pool is different, I feel. It's a matter of marginally upgrading this man or that man - rather than finally grabbing that GOAT who will dramatically improve your attack (or your defence).
I like that, I have to say - different sort of game. But it's definitely tricky - because you almost feel like you're better off sticking with what you had initially.
I like that, I have to say - different sort of game. But it's definitely tricky - because you almost feel like you're better off sticking with what you had initially.
Riva is a good fit, I'm not sure how much better he is but probably easier to sell.
I guess you'll have to change the system if you want to progress, some new player could offer you more tactical flexibility.
Sorry guys. I can't make my pick right now. Currently working. I can pick when my break starts in 1 hour.
Aye it was definitely no slight on your team, I've stared at it for a while trying to figure out how to upgrade it
I have a couple of ideas in mind if you want to let me know what you think? The Riva thing was just that. A more well known name over Vava. Both fit well into your attacking system.
Indeed, but I do think it's achievable. One largely has to go with anecdotal and statistical evidence, but they are hardly an 'inferior form' of evidence as such, for me at the very least (but they do have their limitations no doubt, as you stated).
For instance, harms did a great job espousing the all-round game and quality of Sarosi in the Euro draft and he is almost a fixture in the drafts nowdays. It's hardly like Sindelar's low on credentials either, being the star of arguably the first great historic side, going toe to toe with contemporaries such as Meazza and Sarosi, being the stand-out player in the Wunderteam's CEIC win, clinching two Mitropa Cups with a hat-trick against Meazza's Inter in one of the finals, World Cup Silver Ball etc. Of course, you will always have a few posters who will view the pre-war/older generation players with scepticism but that goes with the territory I reckon.
Very true, very true - it all depends on the reception and the opposition, I suppose.
Selling him in a Euro context is a bit different, however, since you have something very concrete to put on the table there: He undoubtedly shone in the relevant context, and you can back that up with facts and figures (if not HD footage): And then you can pile all the, say, anecdotal evidence on top of that.
Anyway, as a last point I might mention that Lato too would've played a specific part in this Sindelar scheme I was going for: With him frequently operating very narrowly (moving back and forth between the wing and the box, so to speak), I'd have a natural focal point up front when Sindelar drops down: So, it isn't actually a matter of Deyna and Sindelar - simply - interchanging positions (and roles) mechanically (as hinted to above). To put it in somewhat rigid (too rigid) terms: Sindelar drops and becomes the playmaker, Lato moves inside and becomes the striker - and Deyna becomes something like a free man, someone who surges forward as, well, a second striker of sorts. And ideally you then have Armfield (right) and Joya (left) making runs at the same time, giving the now orchestrating Sindelar plenty of options.
That's the theory behind it, if you will.
Sorry about the delay. I pick Picchi and Rensenbrink.
@Skizzo Apologies for the late tag.