All Time Reserves Draft | Quarters

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Crazy Horse comes right after The Beast

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Thar he goes.

High quality pick, without a doubt.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
nice, we almost picked him.....curious to see how and where will you use him :)
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Left back, Centre back, Defensive midfielder.... Very versatile and lots of options.

Chesterlestreet said:
Thar he goes.

High quality pick, without a doubt.
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My team in British Irish draft is still my all time draft favourite and that draft gave me a new appreciation of UK footballers. Teams like Lisbon Lions are quite under appreciated.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Teams like Lisbon Lions are quite under appreciated.
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You'll get no argument from me there. Loaded with quality, as was their famous domestic rivals in those years.

British sides regularly went deep in all European competitions, a trend that lasted until well into the 1980s. You can question some of those vintages to a degree, but only if you compare them to the absolute cream of European club vintages (which is a bit absurd to begin with - there aren't any teams from other nations knocking about that compare to that small handful of super teams either).

ETA And both The Lions and United '68 were super teams, or something very close to it. Liverpool were more successful, but less impressive - but they were so successful that you simply can't ignore it.
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Left back, Centre back, Defensive midfielder.... Very versatile and lots of options.



My team in British Irish draft is still my all time draft favourite and that draft gave me a new appreciation of UK footballers. Teams like Lisbon Lions are quite under appreciated.
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You didn't once vote for any of our Lisbon Lions you bastard :) you were biased even back then!
Jokes
 
Alright, this was my toughest choice for the whole draft simply because there were so many great options, but in the end, I think I want to tell this player's story and bring some love and appreciation for this legend of the game.

For his whole career, he was held back by the bottle of alcohol that always seemed to stick close to him. Whilst his drinking did cause lots of problems for his family and clubs, his talent and footballing intelligence was unquestionable, and his technique, flair, and skill made him a fan favourite wherever he went. His name was well-known around the football world ever since he was a teenager, and if he didn't have the bottle magnetised to him for his whole life, he may possibly have been known a GOAT-level player by many, many more, up there with the likes of Best, Garrincha, and Hamrin.

I'll reveal more about this player later on, but for now, I'll leave you with this preview of the player known as "Nacka":



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1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves 6. Larbi Ben M'barek 7. Branko Stankovic 8. Leonel Alvarez 9 Wladyslaw Zmuda
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri 6. Rep 7. Hulshoff 8. Frank De Boer 9. Buzánszky
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Wright 6. Orsi 7. Häßler 8. Marinho 9. Néstor Rossi
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Preben Elkjær Larsen 6. Amancio Amaro 7. Joan Segarra 8. Dunga 9. Fritz Szepan
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato 6. Zito 7. J. Armfield 8. B. Lennox, 9. Maldini Sr
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince 6. Just Fontaine 7. H.J. Dörner 8. Cambiasso 9. Sol Campbell
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna 6. Hanappi 7. Khurtsilava 8. Gemmell 9. Pedernera
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva 6. Streltsov 7. Clodoaldo 8. Byrne 9. Buchwald
11. green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti 6. Di Bartolomei 7. Jorginho 8. Magico Gonzalez 9. Antonio Benarrivo
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano
13. @Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra 6. Taylor 7. W. Samuel 8. Mats Hummels 9. G Neville
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G.Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio 6. M. Tassotti 7. K. Augenthaler 8. H. Haller 9. A. Carboni 10. L. Skoglund
15. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade 6. Danny Blind 7. J Ceulemans 8. Michel 9. M A Nadal 10. E Hughes
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski
 
Sorry about the delay. This pick was very difficult for me, and without Marty to discuss things with, I had to make sure I was making a good decision.
 
1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves 6. Larbi Ben M'barek 7. Branko Stankovic 8. Leonel Alvarez 9 Wladyslaw Zmuda
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri 6. Rep 7. Hulshoff 8. Frank De Boer 9. Buzánszky
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Wright 6. Orsi 7. Häßler 8. Marinho 9. Néstor Rossi
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Preben Elkjær Larsen 6. Amancio Amaro 7. Joan Segarra 8. Dunga 9. Fritz Szepan
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato 6. Zito 7. J. Armfield 8. B. Lennox, 9. Maldini Sr
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince 6. Just Fontaine 7. H.J. Dörner 8. Cambiasso 9. Sol Campbell
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna 6. Hanappi 7. Khurtsilava 8. Gemmell 9. Pedernera
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva 6. Streltsov 7. Clodoaldo 8. Byrne 9. Buchwald
11. @green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti 6. Di Bartolomei 7. Jorginho 8. Magico Gonzalez 9. Antonio Benarrivo
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra 6. Taylor 7. W. Samuel 8. Mats Hummels 9. G Neville 10. A. Kanchelskis
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G.Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio 6. M. Tassotti 7. K. Augenthaler 8. H. Haller 9. A. Carboni 10. L. Skoglund
15. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade 6. Danny Blind 7. J Ceulemans 8. Michel 9. M A Nadal 10. E Hughes
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski
 
1. Stobzilla & KM - 1. Enzo Francescoli 2. Fritz Walter 3. Juan Joya 4. Roger Marche 5. Nestor Goncalves 6. Larbi Ben M'barek 7. Branko Stankovic 8. Leonel Alvarez 9 Wladyslaw Zmuda
2. Downcast - 1. Luis Suarez 2. Rensenbrink 3. Osvaldo Ardiles 4. Gerrard 5. Vieri 6. Rep 7. Hulshoff 8. Frank De Boer 9. Buzánszky
3. RedTiger - 1. Gianni Rivera 2. Stielike 3. Bossis 4. J.Greaves 5. Donadoni 6. Lucio 7. Boban 8. Reuter 9. Sanchis
4. Sjor Bepo & Invictus - 1. Gérson 2. Förster 3. Riva 4. Kaltz 5. Wright 6. Orsi 7. Häßler 8. Marinho 9. Néstor Rossi
5. Tuppet - 1. Florian Albert 2. Thomas Muller 3. Blanchflower 4. Josef Bican 5. Roberto Perfumo 6. Bonhof 7. Morten Olsen 8. Leandro Ferreira 9. Valentino Mazzola
6. Aldo Staine - 1. Teófilo Cubillas 2. Mario Kempes 3. Pietro Vierchowod 4. Armando Picchi 5. Preben Elkjær Larsen 6. Amancio Amaro 7. Joan Segarra 8. Dunga 9. Fritz Szepan
7. Chesterlestreet - 1. Matthias Sindelar 2. Kazimierz Deyna 3. Grzegorz Lato 4. Wilhelmus "Wim" Jansen 5. Roberto Rosato 6. Zito 7. J. Armfield 8. B. Lennox, 9. Maldini Sr
8. Isotope - 1. Sandro Mazzola 2. Tostao 3. Ciro Ferrara 4. Gianluca Zambrotta 5. Ince 6. Just Fontaine 7. H.J. Dörner 8. Cambiasso 9. Sol Campbell
9. Skizzo & Pat_Mustard - 1. Uwe Seeler 2. B. Conti 3. Ruggeri 4. Lerby 5. Labruna 6. Hanappi 7. Khurtsilava 8. Gemmell 9. Pedernera
10. harms & Annah - 1. Zizinho 2. Keizer 3. Netto 4. D. Alves 5. Leonidas Da Silva 6. Streltsov 7. Clodoaldo 8. Byrne 9. Buchwald
11. green_smiley - 1. Dixie Dean 2. Dobrin 3. Luis Pereira 4. Israël 5. Romeo Benetti 6. Di Bartolomei 7. Jorginho 8. Magico Gonzalez 9. Antonio Benarrivo 10. Mario Corso
12. BBRBB - 1- Nils Liedholm 2. Júnior 3. Alain Giresse 4. Diego Godín 5. Thiago Silva 6. Nándor Hidegkuti 7. Héctor Rial 8. Maicon 9. Mascherano 10. Juninho Pernambucano
13. Physiocrat - 1. Kaka 2. Zagallo 3. Modric 4. Cerezo 5. Evra 6. Taylor 7. W. Samuel 8. Mats Hummels 9. G Neville 10. A. Kanchelskis
14. mazhar13 & Marty1968 - 1. W. Overath 2. H.G.Schwarzenbeck 3. H. Szymaniak 4. H. Crespo 5. F. Causio 6. M. Tassotti 7. K. Augenthaler 8. H. Haller 9. A. Carboni 10. L. Skoglund
15. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. L Brady 2. N Stiles 3. K Dalglish 4. I Rush 5. VR Andrade 6. Danny Blind 7. J Ceulemans 8. Michel 9. M A Nadal 10. E Hughes
16. Enigma_87 - 1. Allan Simonsen 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Stojkovic 4. David Villa 5. Bratseth 6. Willi Schulz 7. Volodymyr Bezsonov 8. Bernard Dietz 9. Papin 10. Čajkovski

@harms @Annahnomoss
 
Two brilliant left wingers there, for both @green_smiley and @mazhar13.

If I hadn't gone for Lennox, I'd have taken Skoglund myself. And the only reason I didn't really consider Corso this time is - simply - that I've had him before, and I'm trying to avoid players I've already drafted to keep things fresh for myself.
 
green_smiley said:
I have no idea what I was thinking this whole time :lol:

Time to get serious, that is, if I still have the chance
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Doesn't look too bad to me.

Not sure if you'll be able to field both Magico and Dobrin in their best positions, but you could play Dobrin out wide.

Corso left, Dobrin right - Magico behind Dean.

And a pair of hard-asses as a double pivot of sorts behind that quartet. It's not outlandish as such.

EDIT I thought you had ***** for some reason - but it's Di Bartolomei, which makes it all the more plausible. Hard-ass + defensive-ish playmaker. That should work.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Doesn't look too bad to me.

Not sure if you'll be able to field both Magico and Dobrin in their best positions, but you could play Dobrin out wide.

Corso left, Dobrin right - Magico behind Dean.

And a pair of hard-asses as a double pivot of sorts behind that quartet. It's not outlandish as such.
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Nah, it is either one

Was thinking of asymmetrical formation, but really, couldn't drop Corso now that I have him
 
green_smiley said:
Am hoping to get a better right winger
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Yeah, that would probably be a good idea, balance wise.

Doesn't strike me as an obvious move to field both Magico and Dobrin in any kind of setup: In theory you could dribble your opponent to death, but in practice I think they'd get too much in each other's way.

I'd bench Magico myself. Use him as an impact sub in the last fifteen. Nobody wants to face Magico when they're on their last legs.
 
green_smiley said:
Don't tell me too much what to do, else someone else may disapprove :)
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Someone always disapproves.

But in all seriousness, what I proposed isn't really done - which is something I've been wanting to reform for a long time: Subs, I mean. The way these things work presently, you can't use subs in a meaningful way unless you're being clearly outvoted. That's the only scenario in which people use subs - and that's both a bit boring and very unrealistic.

In an actual match you can use subs tactically whether you're winning or losing - or drawing. But their use in these drafts is usually limited to damage control or Hail Mary moves.

Let's say - just for the sake of argument - that you did what I proposed above: You have Magico on the bench and towards the end of the match (after, say, 18 hours) you sub him on. In a real match the score at that point would be, say, 1-1 and your idea would be to push for a winner, hoping that Magico's speed and trickery would be too much to handle for the opponent's tired defenders. Very plausible move - but in a draft match this sort of realism isn't reflected in the tiniest bit. What could easily happen is that your formation pic gets updated - and a couple of plonkers who don't bother to read the thread decide to vote against you because they haven't heard of Magico (or hate him, or whatever the case may be). Or some other plonkers decide to change their vote - for more or less the same reason: And they don't consider Magico as an actual sub who is up against tired defenders when doing so - rather, they in all likelihood reconsider the entire balance of your team, as though Magico had been there from the first minute of the virtual match.

So, in short, subs don't work. They certainly don't work as subs - it's some sort of do-over more than anything. Which is an area of these drafts we should look at - in my opinion.

To clarify and to illustrate the point:

If a draft match stands at 10-10 no manager in his right mind would dream of making a substitution. Nobody would risk that. Which is absurd when you consider this as some sort of simulated football match.
 
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@Chesterlestreet

In terms of subs, it might be an idea to include them in a write up.

For example, you say you'll be playing 70 minutes with your original line up and formation, but you plan on bringing on Magico for the last part of the game. obviously that idea would need a lot of fine tuning, especially in terms of how to present it without it becoming a focal point of discussions.

A match could fall apart if manager discussions revolve solely around the potential sub at the end of a game, instead of the actual original team and line ups. It could potentially add some extra dimension to the matches, and implement subs in a more
meaningful way.
 
Skizzo said:
@Chesterlestreet

In terms of subs, it might be an idea to include them in a write up.

For example, you say you'll be playing 70 minutes with your original line up and formation, but you plan on bringing on Magico for the last part of the game. obviously that idea would need a lot of fine tuning, especially in terms of how to present it without it becoming a focal point of discussions.

A match could fall apart if manager discussions revolve solely around the potential sub at the end of a game, instead of the actual original team and line ups. It could potentially add some extra dimension to the matches, and implement subs in a more
meaningful way.
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My take on it is that the basic format (of the match threads) has to be looked at first. As you suggest, including subs as part of your write-up could potentially backfire spectaculary with the present format. Some sort of standard would have to be introduced, I think - something that both managers have to adhere to. Mandatory subs is one idea * - though I'm not crazy about that as a permanent change.

Anyway, my main gripe isn't so much with the sub situation as such, but rather with the whole, basic way in which the draft matches are perceived in terms of "realism". One obvious example: Manager A gets his tactics/selection all wrong. He realizes this and makes a change. But such changes are hardly ever perceived as "realistic" substitutions, regardless of when they take place - they're nearly always taken as do-overs, and even the voters who have read the entire thread tend not to take the possible and "realistic" damage caused by the initial feck-up into consideration. Anto was a champion of this sort of realism - he used to factor in how much virtual match time had passed at the point when the change was made - but it has never caught on as something people do automatically.

And then there's the phenomenon mentioned above: People don't push for a win. Draft matches are like parodies of certain World Cup knockout affairs: Both teams clearly prefer penalties to taking even the tiniest risk which could cost them the match. And it's perfectly understandable - because your possible impact subs might very likely not be taken as such at all by the voters: They may only see an updated formation pic, and base their decision on that - without factoring in any sort of "realism".

But this is a discussion best carried on in the "next idea" thread.

* In other words, you make it mandatory to use subs and to include a description of how you intend to use them in your write-up-
 
I'll still be around for an hour or so to take up the picks. When I'll leave, though, I'll need to give it to someone else.
 
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