All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: R1 - Cutch vs Berbasloth4
- Thread starter Skizzo
- Start date
The left side of that Cutch midfield is quite poor. Doesn't make a difference now but I think people underestimate just how important the defence is in the PL. Clichy and Vermaelen are large contributors to the long held view on Arsenals defensive instability.
Well done cutch. Get yourself vieira and stam if you can
However I think there was some tactical voting or the football knowledge of the cafe is very low because not in a million years would my side have lost that game..
However I think there was some tactical voting or the football knowledge of the cafe is very low because not in a million years would my side have lost that game..
Half a dozen manager votes each, it was just always going to be a close contest with very little in it. Usually when theres little to seperate 2 teams you look at the weakest links on the pitch. In your team it was Kelly and Enrique who unfortunately happened to be up against 2 of the best wingers in PL history.
On my team it was suggested that Vermaelen was the weakness (Not buying that myself, he's good enough to play for Barcelona afterall) but even so i couldnt see how he would be really exploited when you went for only 1 up top, a player who thrives on service left isolated without a support striker for the majority.
I think you vastly underestimate some of the other players that feature in my team aswell. You seemed to give little credit to my centre midfield, but Barry is a PL great, consistently doing the business for 10 times the length of time Matic has, while peak form Essien is as good as any box to box midfielder i've seen in the PL era, Keane, Vieira, Gerrard etc included.
The Gudjohnsen/Hasselbaink pairing was one of proven class also. You talked of the Stam/King pairing as if it was an impenetrable brick wall, but in 4 PL games against Stam, Hasselbaink scored in every single game. Give him the chances and he can score against anyone, and with Giggs/McManaman/Gudjohnsen theres no doubt that openings would be carved.
Aye, that in addition to post-injury Walker makes for a rather underwhelming defense in all honesty and I'm sure Cutch will focus his upgrades there as his wing duo and forward duo look quite tasty as it is for now. Anyway it would have made more sense for Cutch to use the City version of Clichy here as I always found the Arse version of him a bit of a liability defensively (think he was absolutely horrendous when it came to off side traps/ball watching in particular iirc). The City version is much more solid defensively but more limited offensively, in comparison to his Arse days of course. Even Barry reached his prime as a water carrier of sorts for City and not so much for Aston Villa imo.
Hmmmm.
I usually don't disagree with you but i rate the Arsenal Clichy much higher than the City one. When Ashley Cole was still at Arsenal Clichy used to fill in at times and you wouldn't notice the difference. When Cole left the first season or two he was one of Arsenals most consistent players. He did have niggly injures after 2-3 seasons and for some reason his final year he got very slack and disinterested looking, and i don't think he's ever got back to the same level again.
I also rate the Barry at Aston Villa more than City. In his early days he was a really polished defender alongside the likes of Southgate and Ehiogu in an extremely good back 3 before playing left back when he was just as impressive. He got more attention when he moved to midfield and added goals to his game but think he's lost a bit of pace in the last couple years and also isn't quite the same player.
He was good enough to attract the attention of the best club side in the world. At the level he was at in his first season of Arsenal, he was the best centrehalf in the league and looked top drawer. The likes of Ledley King are being seen as being on a whole other level, a player that played his whole career at Spurs and always considered 3rd-4th choice England defender, and who never had a standout season on Vermaelens level.
Vermaelen will likely be upgraded but some of our memories seem a bit tarnished. Expect someone like Kompany who's level has also tailed off to get similarly treated.
Fair enough, perhaps I'm guilty of letting his last season at Arsenal distort my view of him.
It was more to do with his playing style than his ability and like you've stated Barry was more B2B for Villa and more dynamic whereas for City, he played the holding water carrier role very well. Think your team requires the later incarnation of Barry more, as opposed to the Villa one.
Berba changing his setup weakened his midfield control. His spine went all floppy there and it spared me from voting for Gary Kelly in his battle vs. Giggs.
@Cutch, love the flanks and the tasty proven pair upfront, Barry a bit underwhelming, Clichy I don't see as a weakness myself, but the defensive pair is a shocker even at this stage. It's a shame you can't pick up Stam, but Ledley will help. You need a Keown/Adams/Campbell, not Vermaelen. That was the only reason I didn't vote you, if RvN got the ball enough times anything could happen.
@Cutch, love the flanks and the tasty proven pair upfront, Barry a bit underwhelming, Clichy I don't see as a weakness myself, but the defensive pair is a shocker even at this stage. It's a shame you can't pick up Stam, but Ledley will help. You need a Keown/Adams/Campbell, not Vermaelen. That was the only reason I didn't vote you, if RvN got the ball enough times anything could happen.
@Cutch the problem with the likes of Clichy and Vermaelen is even though they did go through spells of good performances, when not having a good day they've looked incredibly nervous and likely to drop a bollock. Like our resident Arsenal fan Donaldo said, both of them were responsible for a lot of humor provided by the Arsenal defense over the years which obviously plays a lot in people's minds. Vermaelen has the tendency to run up the pitch like a madman, and was often caught horribly out of position. Of course Arsenal's tactics contributed a fair bit to those comedy moments but that's what we have to judge them by.
Before Vermaelen moved to Barcelona, he didn't even play for about 1-2 seasons, almost always injured during the seasons and only playing as a sub. There's absolutely no correlation between his performances and attracting interest from Barcelona.
He is only known because of the goals that he scored. Other than that, the Arsenal defense was pretty porous during that time.
Agree on Vermaelen, not early Clichy who looked really good early in his Arsenal career. I've no idea why he went to shit, but when he came through I was pretty jealous at how easily Arsenal had replaced Cole.
Oh... that's useful.
But I would reserve that for a certain midfielder, or even for an eventual breakup of you strike pair. That's a tricky one, I can see them going for a while, but will they win you a final? Probably not. Campbell would be the obvious one as you can switch him between Arse/Spurs, unavailable though.
If we're judging the likes of Matic on one season of PL football its only fair that we judge Vermaelen on a season such as 09/10 and Clichy on 07/08. Arsenal conceded 31 goals with Vermaelen in the team in 09/10 and he struck up a really good partnership with Gallas. He also contributed massively at the other end with 8 goals and playing it out from the back with class. It was an extremely impressive season and could easily resulted in a title if he hadnt got injured after being an ever present for 33 games. There were very little question marks about him defensively until he started being troubled more by injury.
Clichy likewise, from about 06-08 as good a left back in the league and pretty much performing at the same level as Ashley Cole. His defensive abilities were never in question at this time. Check out the vid for anyone that needs a reminder including a barnstorming display against Barcelona.
No correlation? How do you think he attracted their interest then if it wasn't for his performances on a football field. I know his performance levels have dropped the last couple of years, but the likes of Utd and Barcelona had an interest last year because they know the levels he was capable of at his best. At his best (albeit for a relatively short time) he was at a level exceeding many defenders in this draft.
Clichy with us was always a brainfart waiting to happen. Two swallows, summer etc etc.
I think a 4-5-1 is more or less the same for the wingers, except that the defense is stronger and they get an even more important role and more balls to work with in the offense. I think that would have both really targeted his weakest areas while you dealt with his strongest area better.
A 4-4-2 is always difficult to make work. Ideally every player is a hard worker with a specific defensive role like Atletico/Sacchi's Milan.
Since Champions League started only United has won it using a flat 4-4-2 and we did so with a once in a lifetime generation with superior quality in more or less every position and the greatest manager ever. I like the tactic and there is nothing wrong with it, but I do think it is a difficult tactic to use and have a team performing above or to their abilities.
The problem is that you don't automatically create more chances and score more because you are playing more strikers than the opponent. But if you have one midfielder more you are almost guaranteed to defend better.
Like I said, in this game I thought that Gudjohnsen wouldn't add too much due to the fact that you had such an easy ride down the flanks and even if Gudjohnsen/Hasselbaink are a tasty pairing they were up against a formidable central defense and also central midfield.
In the next game maybe you are up against a poor centre back pairing and a weak central midfield but a ridiculously good full-back/winger pairing and then having that extra striker will be worth his weight in gold.
It was the substitution that made me vote against you when I had every intention of voting for you. It was a close match anyway but I came in to vote for you and done a u turn when I saw the sub. Vieira and Poyet were both pushed slightly further back into roles that didn't suit them as well as your initial formation, and the result would have been a much more end to end match that suited Cutch's brilliant wingers and strike partnership down to the ground. You would have ground out the win if you'd stuck with the initial plan of smothering him in the middle imo. Its a shame as you drafted really well, and I know how tempting it is to change things up when a game is tight, but I think it was the wrong decision.
Would have changed my vote as well if I saw it actually!
You are wrong on Vermaelen. Even at his 'best' he was never that good defensively, he always wanted to venture forward leaving holes at the back. In your formwation, you have him next to an attacking full back in Clichy.. the argument about your left side being woeful defensively is valid even if you count both Clichy and Vermaelen at their peak
Can I ask who has ever played or coached a football game?? Semi pro or higher??
Alot of people look very stupid here.. I look a sore loser but if you watched majority of those players I win
Alot of people look very stupid here.. I look a sore loser but if you watched majority of those players I win
Have coached it at a national level, always tell me players to keep your eye on the ball and swing the bat as hard as possible.
Back in the day I was more focused on head up, straight back, arse outwards, flex knees, stable base... Squeeze, knees, drive!
You are looking stupid here anto, I might look like a sore coach but if you watch my technique you would know my players would win.
Nah, they will all get sent off for running around the pitch swinging bats at other players. Suárez will retaliate biting one and will be suspended until WC 2022.