All time ODI Draft

Skizzo said:
Technically he's supplied all that he needs to. The match thread is up, votes have been coming in. I don't see why whoever has the most at the end of that shouldn't be the winner?
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Wait, what ?! The Match is up ? What the hell have I been doing :|
 
Skizzo said:
:lol:

You haven't missed much. Not sure if either of them actually commented in there themselves, but they're all tied on votes!
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Are you serious ? I searched the home page and I din't see them. Neither today or yesterday. Will go bump it now.
 
Already did Harsh. The game is in the Home Page, but not receiving a lot of traction.
 
Can we sort the whole venue thing before going forward?

We are told that the venue is a representation of the conditions, not the exact ground, and yes statsguru is a great tool that allows us to filter every little detail, but should a player who played a handful of ODIs in said country and didn't do well, due to whatever reason (playing pre/post his prime, unfit, anything else) become completely irrelevant in the draft game because of that, no matter what he did during the rest of his career? That's not what it was meant to be as far as I am concerned.

I'll rather appreciate people bringing up actual style of play and comparing that with the conditions. e.g. if someone is suspect against bounce and is playing at Perth (the original not the current shithole) then that could be brought up as an argument. Stats are great to support your reasoning but in this case particular they seem to be thrown around without much context and considerably skew the impact a great ODI player would have because he didn't look good in the venue's statsguru filter. It defeats a lot of the purpose of drafting the best ODI players of all time.
 
Perhaps, we need to revert to the original format where a series of 5 matches was set for every match-up with the 5 venues covering all conditions possible, and people would vote for the team they think would win that series. Like this: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cricket-draft-semi-final-interval-vs-aldo.379856/

Adding venues was a nice touch and conditions of course play a part in the game but there needs to be a bit of balance in allowing level ground and not depend on the luck of the draw. If we are indeed continuing with the same, then please at least don't disregard the complete career against a handful of games.
 
I agree completely. Even though it's been made clear that stadiums are just an indicator of conditions, it seems to get ignored far too much with stats for particular countries thrown about.

If you draft the best players, you want them treated as such. Not based on 10 games out of a career span of 300 matches.
 
Yeah I'm with Aldo and Varun on this.. The place the game is being played is getting too much importance. It's a wildcard ffs
 
harshad said:
how does this work now. we relinquish 1/2 player and pick 1/2 players from the teams who are out?
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i would suggest that if we are picking 2 players, then we select the order based on randomizer and then drop and select in the same post. Like if you want to drop X and pick Y, you could say "In : Y Out : X". It helps us to be unpredictable and at the same time not lose our existing strength which again is important. Not sure if this is what @Skills has in mind though.
 
prath92 said:
i would suggest that if we are picking 2 players, then we select the order based on randomizer and then drop and select in the same post. Like if you want to drop X and pick Y, you could say "In : Y Out : X". It helps us to be unpredictable and at the same time not lose our existing strength which again is important. Not sure if this is what @Skills has in mind though.
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Reverse order for the first pick, randomise the second one.
 
Yeah that's probably best. Randomiser can create confusion again. We know the order by heart now :p. Plus it will be faster with just 8 players
 
Not everyone does that. Every game, without fail, country specific stats are brought out my whichever team it favours.
 
I use stats only to see how good the player adapts to the conditions. For instance in Aldo's game, Gul had a poor record in both NZ and Aus so its obvious he was going to struggle in those conditions. Whereas Streak had a poor record in NZ but good record in Aus so chances are he would be effective in NZ in a good team. Similarly in our game with EAP, Hadlee hadnt bowled in ODIs in India or Pakistan but it would be unfair to say he wont be able to play well on the bowler friendly Pak tracks where even the likes of Balaji wreaked havoc once upon a time.
 
prath92 said:
I use stats only to see how good the player adapts to the conditions. For instance in Aldo's game, Gul had a poor record in both NZ and Aus so its obvious he was going to struggle in those conditions. Whereas Streak had a poor record in NZ but good record in Aus so chances are he would be effective in NZ in a good team. Similarly in our game with EAP, Hadlee hadnt bowled in ODIs in India or Pakistan but it would be unfair to say he wont be able to play well on the bowler friendly Pak tracks where even the likes of Balaji wreaked havoc once upon a time.
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Cricket is about more than just stats though. You had yuvi in the weakness list because of his avg in NZL and Aus.
 
Varun said:
Cricket is about more than just stats though. You had yuvi in the weakness list because of his avg in NZL and Aus.
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he averaged 21 in NZ and 30 in Aus. Not exactly good. I like Yuvraj but it does seem that he did have trouble adapting to conditions down under.
 
So what happens next? Are we supposed to name both the players we are discarding before we start the reinforcements?
 
prath92 said:
For instance in Aldo's game, Gul had a poor record in both NZ and Aus so its obvious he was going to struggle in those conditions
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Sorry but that's not enough information to come to that conclusion. What was the opposition? What was Guls role in the team? What was the situation he was bowling in? Did those games come during his peak? And more. Comment on career stats all you want but looking at a few games and disregarding the rest of his career doesn't make any sense. Specially since most disregard the sample size completely and just copy paste from cricinfo.
 
Samid said:
So what happens next? Are we supposed to name both the players we are discarding before we start the reinforcements?
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Usually we pick one and discard one at the same time. Otherwise if you discard both players before picking, you could be screwed by the time your pick comes around
 
Aldo said:
Sorry but that's not enough information to come to that conclusion. What was the opposition? What was Guls role in the team? What was the situation he was bowling in? Did those games come during his peak? And more. Comment on career stats all you want but looking at a few games and disregarding the rest of his career doesn't make any sense. Specially since most disregard the sample size completely and just copy paste from cricinfo.
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Thats true. BUt thats like the only way tbh. He has always been someone who struggles with economy anyway.
 
prath92 said:
Thats true. BUt thats like the only way tbh. He has always been someone who struggles with economy anyway.
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It's not about him but the in general.

Venues were introduced to give the game a nice realistic touch, not to disregard entire careers for a few games. Initially people had to be told not to use individual ground stats coz apparent for some it makes sense to pick players for their entire career and then only consider what they have done in one ground. But it needs to be repeated why venues were introduced in the first place.

The 5 venue series is a better evaluation method by a mile. I propose we use that for the remaining games, else the discussions are going to revolve around stats based on a handful of games with zero sense of context.
 
Aldo said:
It's not about him but the in general.

Venues were introduced to give the game a nice realistic touch, not to disregard entire careers for a few games. Initially people had to be told not to use individual ground stats coz apparent for some it makes sense to pick players for their entire career and then only consider what they have done in one ground. But it needs to be repeated why venues were introduced in the first place.

The 5 venue series is a better evaluation method by a mile. I propose we use that for the remaining games, else the discussions are going to revolve around stats based on a handful of games with zero sense of context.
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Will be tough to change in the middle. I gambled on not having spinners since only a few venues supported spin..
 
Aldo said:
Sorry but that's not enough information to come to that conclusion. What was the opposition? What was Guls role in the team? What was the situation he was bowling in? Did those games come during his peak? And more. Comment on career stats all you want but looking at a few games and disregarding the rest of his career doesn't make any sense. Specially since most disregard the sample size completely and just copy paste from cricinfo.
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You can't go around doing that. It is impossible to do it for every player. Besides Umar Gul's overall career itself has turned out average and his peak was too short lived. He had talent but so did many players who waste it away.
 
The Man Himself said:
You can't go around doing that. It is impossible to do it for every player. Besides Umar Gul's overall career itself has turned out average and his peak was too short lived. He had talent but so did many players who waste it away.
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It's not about Gul dude. Discussions in all games are being based on a handful of games while disregarding the remaining 90% of their career. What you said is an opinion based on the entire career and is perfectly valid.

When you Base something even on stats for an entire career everything averages out apart from some exceptions.
 
NM said:
Will be tough to change in the middle. I gambled on not having spinners since only a few venues supported spin..
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Are there actually spinning tracks though? In tests yes but in ODIs even Indian pitches does not have anything specially helpful for spinners. Its merely slower in India, relatively to Australia and England that is. This is probably why not a lot of spinners have good records in ODIs. Even test specialists like Kumble Harbhajan Ashwin who have been India's best spinners in the last 20 years have poor record in India itself. Problem is Indian pitches are flat as hell in most venues for ODIs. Stadiums like Bangalore, Mohali, Wankhede even Eden Gardens mostly have flat slow pitches. For Instance the last game in Eden Gardens i think was the one in which Rohit Sharma hit 264 and I remember that match Dhawal Kulkarni or Rishi Dhawan or someone was our best bowler.
 
I ran the last ODI draft I think.. with fantastic 3/5 match series and vertical line ups facing each other. Can do this as well.
 
Results:

Skills vs MJJ @ Colombo.
Boycott vs Samid @ Cape Town.
KM vs PaulScholes18 @ Melbourne.
Skizzo vs RedTiger @ Lords.
NM vs EAP @ Karachi.
Mani vs Aldo @ Wellington.
Harshad vs VP @ Kolkata.

Ongoing:

Red Viper vs Crappy @ Barbados.


Through to Quarter Finals:
  1. Harshad - TMH: 1. AB De Villiers 2. Curtly Ambrose 3. Brett Lee 4. S. Waugh 5. Dilshan 6. Guptill 7. Razzaq 8. Kyle Mills 9. Gautam Gambhir 10. Jean-Paul Duminy 11. R. Ashwin 12. Upul Chandana
  2. Aldo-Varun: 1. S Tendulkar 2. Shane Bond 3. Yuvraj Singh 4. Mark Waugh 5. Andrew Symonds 6. Streak 7. M Boucher 8. Umar Gul 9. Younis Khan 10. Larsen 11. Ian Bell 12. David Miller
  3. KM: 1. Allan Donald 2. Shane Watson 3. Saeed Ajmal 4. Aravinda De Silva 5. Joe Root 6. Angelo Matthews 7. Jos Buttler 8. Gillespie 9.Dhawan 10.Andre Russell 11. Junaid Khan 12. M. Prabhakar
  4. MJJ - Akash: 1. Imran Khan 2. Lara 3.Pietersen 4. Steyn 5. Steve Smith 6. Maxwell 7. D.Gough 8. Fleming 9.Tahir 10. P. Patterson 11. Kaluwitharana 12. Bermudan Whale
  5. Crappy: 1. Jacques Kallis 2. Shane Warne 3. Shoaib Akhtar 4. Saeed Anwar 5. Chris Cairns 6. Graeme Smith 7. Clive Lloyd 8. Carl Hooper 9. Brendan Taylor 10. Irfan Pathan 11. Damien Fleming 12. Craig McMillan
  6. The Red Viper: 1. Pollock 2. Klusener 3. Michael Hussey 4. Desmond Haynes 5. Greg Chappell 6. Vettori 7. Trescothick 8. Srinath 9. Bob Willis 10. Arjuna Ranatunga 11. Mushfiqur Rahim 12. Roger Harper
  7. Skizzo: 1. Murali 2. Jayasuriya 3. Gayle 4. Inzamam 5. McDermott 6. Rhodes 7. J. Trott 8. Rod Marsh 9. Tim Southee 10. Dwayne Bravo 11. Tsosobe 12. O'Brien
  8. NM -Prath: 1. MS Dhoni 2. Virat Kohli 3. Flintoff 4. Andy Roberts 5. Kirsten 6. Shakib Al Hasan 7. Chanderpaul 8. Bracken 9. O'Donnel 10. Allan Lamb 11. Ray Price 12. Malik
  9. Samid: 1. Joel Garner 2. Michael Bevan 3. Gordon Greenidge 4. Zaheer Abbas 5. Abdul Qadir 6. Martin Crowe 7. Zaheer Khan 8. Morne Morkel 9. Ravindra Jadeja 10. Paul Collingwood 11. Thisara Perera 12. Brad Haddin

Reinforcement Pool:

Edgar Allan Pillow: 1.Viv Richards 2. R. Hadlee 3. Dean Jones 4. M.Marshall 5. Dravid 6. G Swann 7. A Jadeja 8. G flower 9. G Marsh 10. C Harris 11. Aaqib Javed 12. B McMillan

RedTiger - LeChuck: 1.A Gilchrist 2. Hashim Amla 3. J Miandad 4. Vaas 5. Kumble 6. Mitchell Johnson 7. R Sarwan 8. Misbah 9. S Styris 10. Stuart Broad 11. Boeta Dippenaar 12. J Franklin

VP: 1. Wasim Akram 2. D. Lillee 3. Brendon McCullum 4. Michael Clarke 5. Afridi 6. Mahela 7. Botham 8. Harbhajan Singh 9. S. Gavaskar 10. Gooch 11. Richie Richardson 12. D. Cullinan

Mani - Ijazz17: 1. Glenn McGrath 2. Hayden 3. Mohammed Yousuf 4. Alec Stewart 5. Kane Williamson 6.H.Cronje 7. J. Anderson 8. Raina 9. Jacob Oram 10. Fanie Di Villiers 11. Mushtaq Ahmed 12. Russel Arnold

PaulScholes18: 1. Kumar Sangakara 2. Sehwag 3. Holding 4. Rohit Sharma 5. A Mendis 6. Eoin Morgan 7. James Faulkner 8. Du Plessis 9. Carl Rackemann 10. K. Pollard 11. Hafeez 12. AJ Hall

Boycott: 1. Waqar Younis 2. Ganguly 3. Malinga 4. Walsh 5. Gibbs 6. Ross Taylor 7. Q. De Kock 8. Damien Martyn 9. Hogg 10. Agarkar 11. Saleem Malik 12. Steve Tikolo

Skills: 1. Ricky Ponting 2. Kapil Dev 3. Saqlain Mushtaq 4. Andy Flower 5. Azharuddin 6. Ntini 7. Nathan Astle 8. Ian Bishop 9. Atapattu 10. M. Samuels 11. Pringle 12. Aaron Finch
 
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