All-time Fantasy Draft - antohan v Thisistheone

[Brwned]

I'm playing a 4-3-3 with a fluid front three. Pelé is primarily operating in the box, but can drop into the hole. Henry provides a wide-left option along with Iniesta and Laudrup drops deep to help with build-up, then drifts right to support Zanetti in attack.

The central core has been strengthened by Don Elías Figueroa one of the Top 3 centre-halves ever (3rd behind Baresi and Moore according to IFFHS).

That leaves Team Antohan with the best back 7 defensive unit in the draft (GK+B4+Rijkaard & Beckenbauer).

Upfront, we have gained significant firepower with the addition of the only player to ever win 3 WCs and arguably the best ever: Pelé.

HOW IT WILL BE WON:

Neutralise: Facchetti is the best man for a job on Garrincha, and so are Rijkaard & Beckenbauer for Maradona & Cruyff. These won't gel as there is only one ball and Cruyff wants to run things, annoying Maradona no end. Zanetti will do Cruyff if he ever ventures wide. Ferdinand & Figueroa will easily keep Weah in their pockets (a counterattacking player, not a box operator).

Fullbacks: I have the best possible pair to deal with his threat and support the attack (one at a time). Both Inter legends, one having mentored the other.

Centre of the park: Having explained the defensive side, what is TITOs plan for stopping Rijkaard, Beckenbauer, Iniesta, Laudrup and my fullbacks bombing forward? Bremner is the only guy doing any serious recovery effort. Not good enough. He has many creators but no ball-winning.

Devastating interplay upfront: Iniesta and his idol Laudrup will work telepathically when it comes to build up play, with no better focal point than Pelé and Henry's pace and movement creating gaps to exploit. TITOs backline is not good enough at this level. All I need to win this game is a couple of goals, and I'll sure get them.

Better counterattacking setup: I can move up the pitch quickly through the centre or the flanks, while keeping an outrageously solid 2-tier five at the back, all of them with pace and excellent reading of the game. I'm not getting caught out, he is.

SUBS: ANDRADE, VASOVIC, FABREGAS, EFFENBERG, RIVELINO, STOICHKOV AND ERICO

IN ATTACK:
ZANETTI AND FACCHETTI TAKE TURNS GOING FORWARD, ONE OR THE OTHER (UNLESS BOTH THE RIVAL WINGERS TRACK BACK, WHICH THEY WON'T)

Spoiler

GAP IS THERE TO INDICATE DEFENSIVE AND ATTACKING DEPLOYMENT, ACTUAL GAP BETWEEN LINES SUBJECT TO RIVAL ATTACKERS POSITIONING

..........

PLAYER PROFILES

Change of Tactics at 8-13
2nd change of tactics at 14-18
3rd change of tactics at 16-18

Team Antohan

Given the arrival of Carlos Alberto, the left flank is no longer such an incredibly weak spot so shaking things up to further beef up the midfield with Stoichkov's and Pelé's workrate and improved approach play to carve up the defence.

Stoichkov-Laudrup, the Dream Team partnership like no other in this game.

Team Thisistheone

POINTS OF INTEREST

Antohan’s lop sided team. All attacking players favour left foot and ideally suited to the left. Do not fit & will inevitably get in each other’s way, also leaving the right side exposed.

No real striker in the team. No poacher, only attackers who like to drop deep or drift wide left. This is perfectly suit to my two centre backs – Sammer & Cannavaro – who are both comfortable coming out of defence and playing. Note: My most defensive player & war-horse, Billy Bremner, is on the correct side to deal with Antohan’s left side.

After much consideration (including dropping Garrincha & opting for a more defensive formation to combat Antohan’s left side) I decided to start with the big guns. The best teams in history – Brazil 1970, Milan 1990, Barca 2011 – have all be progressive. In other words, they focus on their own strengths and didn’t set up to stop their opponents & be re-active (in a way Inter were at times under Herrera or even Chelsea last season.) rather they set up and let their opponents worry about stopping them. Opting to start with Carlos Alberto instead of Garrincha would have been a sign of weakness & basically admitting we’re in fear of Antohan’s team. But it’s not the case. When you have the likes of Maradona, Cruyff, Garrincha & Charlton in your locker, you shouldn’t fear anyone!

Sir Bobby Charlton comes in mainly for his huge presence, big game mentality & passing ability, but also to give Beckenbauer something to think about. Once he seems Charlton’s name on the team-sheet he’ll think twice about bombing forward. Charlton and Beckenbauer sadly might cancel each-other out but that would then leave more space for Maradona & Cruyff.

Paul Breitner & the free ride.
One of the best players in history, Breitner will effectively have free space in front of him to dictate play and stamp his mark on proceedings. While all the other full backs are busy – Fachetti with Garrincha, Zanetti with Cruyff & Irwin with Stoichkov – Laudrup isn’t a right winger and will drift deep and into the middle.

Subs: Eto’o, Blanc, Xabi Alonso, Carlos Alberto, Mário Coluna, Luis Enrique

 

[antohan]

The game in a nutshell

• Ferdinand and Figueroa keep Eto'o in their pocket, comfortably
• Cruyff, Maradona, Charlton and Luis Enrique are all operating in the same congested central area between Ferdinand & Figueroa and Rijkaard & Beckenbauer with Facchetti & Zanetti tucking in to create a square of death.
• If either Cruyff or Breitner attack the left, Zanetti is there. Although Breitner also cuts in. He was a right-footed player and always cut in for the long shot. Zanetti is actually tucking in to help with all that central activity.
• That is, I have a solid Back 7, supported by Pelé who was not alien to putting in a shift and Stoichkov who will be immense at closing down on Carlos Alberto. I can shut TITO out.
  
• For the attacking transition I have two of the best attacking fullbacks in the draft, Beckenbauer, Stoichkov, Laudrup and the best of them all: Pelé.
• TITO only has Bremner as a credible ball-winner in the middle of the park.
• That is, I have a fluid set up and no one getting the ball off me.
• I'm operating in acres of space, unchallenged, with Laudrup and Pelé carving up the openings for Pelé himself, Henry and Stoichkov darting into the box.
• Laudrup-Stoichkov was the axis behind the Barca Dream Team of the early 90s, one of the best attacking sides of the last couple of decades.
• Sammer and Cannavaro are good players, but there's as big a gap in quality there as I also have in my favour in the other box.

So, I have the ball, he is not taking it off me, when he does I'm solid, and when he doesn't I score. 2-0 or 2-1 this game.

 

[antohan]

That mouth-watering three which won't work

Re: "arrogant prick" comment that seems to have riled some. That was a summarised point to keep to the character limit.

The point is there's only one ball on the pitch. Cruyff will want it, he wants to be the orchestrator. Maradona is the ultimate orchestrator. Who gets the ball?

Cruyff will be running his own show, will alienate Maradona, and he in turn will end up so weed off he will also end up running his own show.

There's no question Cruyff was arrogant and the prick comment was to explain Maradona's sentiment as the game wore on.

There's a case for Garrincha having a similar problem. He was subdued and wasteful with Pelé around (Pelé himself found him annoying for this at times) but to his merit he turned it on when Pelé got injured in 1962 and it all fell on his shoulders.

Which Garrincha will we see in this scenario with not one but two orchestrators? The one that is focused and effective or the one that wastes possession Denilson-style? History says the latter.

EDIT: Seems like TITO has owned up to how bloody weak that flank was only after picking up a lead flouting Garrincha's fancy name on the teamsheet.

 

[Gio]

Can see this being a goal-feast. Not sure who is more exposed, Thisistheone's top-heavy midfield unit or Antohan's wing-backs bombing on leaving Cruyff and Garrincha behind (or vice versa).

 

[Fergus' son]

"Arrogant prick"?!

Give it a fecking rest!

 

[Thisistheone]

Uh oh. Arrows over-load!

Different set-up to what I expected. Thought Stoichkov would play but Iniesta is still a left sided player so thats ok.

As a psycological note, my team a right up for this. Today's opposition manager has gone on record to say the lads can't play together and there's too many ego's. That was pinned on the wall in the changing rooms before they came out and my team talk pretty much done. They're out to prove a point.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I was second to vote I hate the arrows drawn... I realise your trying to explain where you want the players to drop off/ make runs it just reminds me of FM

I think the teams are very close... Thisistheone has a lack of a goal scorer/finisher, whereas I feel his mid would be too strong for Antohan, but I have voted

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

"Arrogant prick"?!

Give it a fecking rest!

Wrong thread?

 

[Fergus' son]

Uh oh. Arrows over-load!

Different set-up to what I expected. Thought Stoichkov would play but Iniesta is still a left sided player so thats ok.

As a psycological note, my team a right up for this. Today's opposition manager has gone on record to say the lads can't play together and there's too many ego's. That was pinned on the wall in the changing rooms before they came out and my team talk pretty much done. They're out to prove a point.

Yeah overboard with the arrows. Iniestas and Laudrups are particularly pointless IMO.

 

[Thisistheone]

"Arrogant prick"?!

Give it a fecking rest!

I think team Antohan's biggest enemy might just be their manager, not my team.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Yeah overboard with the arrows. Iniestas and Laudrups are particularly pointless IMO.

I'm personally glad he drew them two, my initial thought was that they would act as stand by sweepers and run to beef out the GK ...

 

[NM]

Wrong thread?

No. He is responding to a typical Antohan description of opposition players in the OP. Tone it down Antohan.

Also, I want to vote for Anto as he has two of my players but thisistheone just has a better unit for me.

 

[Fergus' son]

Wrong thread?

No. Apparently Maradona sees Cruyff as an 'arrogant prick'.

Even if the sentiment has an element of truth to it, it's worded horribly.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

No. He is responding to a typical Antohan description of opposition players in the OP. Tone it down Antohan.

Also, I want to vote for Anto as he has two of my players but thisistheone just has a better unit for me.

No. Apparently Maradona sees Cruyff as an 'arrogant prick'.

Even if the sentiment has an element of truth to it, it's worded horribly.

Ah silly comments really.... We all know of their personalities, especially Maradonna, but in football they were winners..

 

[Isotope]

Cruyff was an arrogant tit.

 

[antohan]

I'm lop-sided? They are all left-footed? Really?

While Pelé can drop into the hole to build up, I'm deliberately placing him upfront. He was a magnificent striker and the buildup is well taken care of, so I can't see how I lack someone who can put it in the back of the net. Nutter.

If at any point Pelé dropped deep Henry would stay upfront, much like he did with Bergkamp. He can drift wide, and will occasionally, particularly when Facchetti doesn't advance. When I have Facchetti and Iniesta tearing one into Irwin there's no need for him to drift though.

 

[NM]

Ah silly comments really.... We all know of their personalities, especially Maradonna, but in football they were winners..

Yeah. I honestly think "just 1 ball on the pitch!" might be more of a problem, but I especially dislike direct attacks like that. To each his own though!

Anto was right in that he and I got bad draws in the quarters - neither of us could add the attacking firepower that wins drafts. I like Anto's team.. But Garrincha, Cruyff and Maradonna ffs! With Charlton posing the long shot danger too.

 

[antohan]

Can see this being a goal-feast. Not sure who is more exposed, Thisistheone's top-heavy midfield unit or Antohan's wing-backs bombing on leaving Cruyff and Garrincha behind (or vice versa).

I very specifically pointed out the wingbacks would take turns so there is sufficient cover at the back.

I would expect Zanetti to get more opportunities to go forward as Cruyff is not as significant a threat out wide and would most likely track back anyway.

Facchetti will probably be the more conservative throughout, clearly, although Rijkaard can provide adequate cover and Garrincha takes so long messing around with dribbles he would make it back. But I'm not risking it.

I'm in full control of the game, both in midfield and the flanks.

 

[Thisistheone]

Anto, out of interest, has my decision to bring back the fresh Charlton surprised you? Rested in the last round he's surely going to be on Beckenbauer's mind?

 

[antohan]

I was second to vote I hate the arrows drawn... I realise your trying to explain where you want the players to drop off/ make runs it just reminds me of FM

I think the teams are very close... Thisistheone has a lack of a goal scorer/finisher, whereas I feel his mid would be too strong for Antohan, but I have voted

We had originally set it up with the big shirts site but it looked like a magic square, and a diamond wasn't right either.

Basically you have two CMs focusing on the defensive aspects, one AM contributing more significantly to the defensive/recovery effort (Iniesta) and the other more advanced and with a more significant build-up role (Laudrup).

As you say, the point was explaining the runs and what options each player presented. I know arrows are off-putting, but the static version was not quite clear.

 

[Thisistheone]

Reading Antohan's team talk again and the abuse that is thrown at my team and players is quite funny. Antohan is "laughing his tits off at Weah" and thinks his team only need to score a couple of goals to win.

Arrogance plays a part from manager's and is transmitted to the players. He's like Clough & Revie's bad bits all rolled into one.

My boys are well up for this.

 

[antohan]

"Arrogant prick"?!

Give it a fecking rest!

Yeah overboard with the arrows. Iniestas and Laudrups are particularly pointless IMO.

No. Apparently Maradona sees Cruyff as an 'arrogant prick'.

Even if the sentiment has an element of truth to it, it's worded horribly.

Christ, you are an unbiased neutral, aren't you? If you think the Laudrup and Iniesta arrows were unnecessary good for you, but I didn't want to leave it to chance.

Re: the Cruyff comment, while accurate, I agree is badly worded. Blame the fact I stick to the 2500 fecking characters and my long explanation on one ball on the pitch and Maradona getting alienated by Cruyff didn't make the cut. Everyone knows what I meant and what I was getting at.

Yeah. I honestly think "just 1 ball on the pitch!" might be more of a problem, but I especially dislike direct attacks like that. To each his own though!

You are right. The longer version did include one ball on the pitch and that leading to the personality clash, I just had to cut down.

Anto was right in that he and I got bad draws in the quarters - neither of us could add the attacking firepower that wins drafts. I like Anto's team.. But Garrincha, Cruyff and Maradonna ffs! With Charlton posing the long shot danger too.

Who's getting the ball for them? Bremner? Really? Charlton will put a shift in but there's nowhere near enough fight in that midfield to keep up with mine.

 

[Fergus' son]

Course I'm an unbiased neutral!

Don't go round calling players pricks for no reason and everything would be fine.

 

[antohan]

Anto, out of interest, has my decision to bring back the fresh Charlton surprised you? Rested in the last round he's surely going to be on Beckenbauer's mind?

Not really. I actually thought you might have gone for Messi and chucked Charlton in there instead of Maradona. Sounds criminal I know, but the gap between Maradona and Charlton (considering you have Cruyff already there) and that between Weah and Messi would justify it.

I really thought you would go for that, or Ronaldo and Luis Enrique for Garrincha.

Overall, you are playing one of the poorest strikers in the competition and have kept all the fancy attacking AMs/wingers with no one other than Bremner getting the ball for them.

Reading Antohan's team talk again and the abuse that is thrown at my team and players is quite funny. Antohan is "laughing his tits off at Weah" and thinks his team only need to score a couple of goals to win.

53 goals in 126 games at his peak. He was never particularly prolific. Ferdinand and Figueroa are indeed very very comfortable dealing with that sort of threat.

Arrogance plays a part from manager's and is transmitted to the players. He's like Clough & Revie's bad bits all rolled into one.

My boys are well up for this.

I like adding colour to stuff, when I actually talk about the football people say I get too scientific and complicated. There's no pleasing some people!

All my men know what they are doing, are playing in roles they have played effectively in and their attributes are a good complement for each other. Those who need to defend will do that, those who need to attack will and there's enough of both to control and win the game.

Yes, it is a 2-0/2-1 game because you are not really going to get the ball anywhere near enough to score more tan once here.

 

[antohan]

Course I'm an unbiased neutral!

Don't go round calling players pricks for no reason and everything would be fine.

Knowing Maradona, prick is the least he would level at Cruyff. Arrogant was the operative term though.

 

[antohan]

Speaking of motivation

One of the most difficult players I have worked with. When he gives 80–90% he is still by far the best, but I want 100%, and he rarely does that. Had Michael been born in a poor ghetto in Brazil or Argentina with the ball being his only way out of poverty he would today be recognised as the biggest genius of the game ever. He had all the abilities to reach it but lacked this ghetto-instinct, which could have driven him there.

When Michael plays like a dream, a magic illusion, determined to show his new team his extreme abilities, no one in the world comes anywhere near his level.

You go show him Michael.

 

[Fergus' son]

I love the implication that I'm biased just because I called you out on making silly remarks and those pointless arrows. Because the only way someone would dare criticising your team or tactics is becaused they are biased right?

 

[antohan]

I love the implication that I'm biased just because I called you out on making silly remarks and those pointless arrows. Because the only way someone would dare criticising your team or tactics is becaused they are biased right?

A long time ago, when I started on these drafts, I picked a couple of "fights" in games that were none of my business. One at the receiving end was Polaroid (in a draft I wasn't even participating in), think the other was Snow. It was out of order and unfair when I look back at it.

Over time I've warmed to the idea that games are none of your business to get too engrossed with unless you are the manager. It's for the other manager to make his points and I won't be beating someone down for no fecking good reason at all, just commenting on views and suggesting improvements.

Both in the last game and this one you've made a point of pretty much taking over against my team over petty stuff. Comment, fine. Bang on about it, not fine. Simples.

And no, don't answer "Poor you" again. I don't have a "Poor me" syndrome, I just think it's OTT.

PS: The only pointless arrows in my book are those that give wrong directives.

 

[Fergus' son]

Bang on about it? I made two separate points, one about the arrows and one about calling Cruyff a prick. I followed up on the latter because another poster was confused, how the feck is that banging on?

Anyway, I'll contribute as much as I want to the thread, don't particularly care if it's puts your nose out of joint. When you talk shit like Maradona thinks Cruyff is an arrogant prick I feel inclined to get involved and make a few points too.

 

[Thisistheone]

Busy in work but trying my best to keep posting here. I must call you out on that Weah statement. Why quote his goal stats? That doesn't tell the story at all. He was playing in the most defensively brilliant league ever. Messi and Pele both have way more goals than Maradona, but does that really tell the whole story?

Weah was fantastic and suited to my team. He's big, strong and quick, and a tireless runner.

 

[Fergus' son]

Go back and read my match thread, Antohan is arguing against my team a lot more than I have done in this one and yet he calls me biased? What a fecking joke, can't take any criticism at all without getting his knickers in a twist.

 

[NM]

btw, anyone know where Theon is? He was all over these threads earlier.

 

[Thisistheone]

Not a fan of Anto's formation. 4222? Without a true no.9 striker.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Go back and read my match thread, Antohan is arguing against my team a lot more than I have done in this one and yet he calls me biased? What a fecking joke, can't take any criticism at all without getting his knickers in a twist.

Don't now get annoyed and make yourself look silly, leave it mate.

 

[Fergus' son]

Don't now get annoyed and make yourself look silly, leave it mate.

He's making himself look silly, I just made a couple points about the OP and apparently I'm biased? That's bullshit.

 

[antohan]

btw, anyone know where Theon is? He was all over these threads earlier.

I think he had personal stuff going on, glad to see he is focusing on that rather than faffing around on here TBH.

How are you anyway? Got better? You seem to have passed me that virus via your players, I spent all night on Sunday hugged to the bog

 

[EDogen]

Thisistheone for me since I like his formation and unit more. Also not a big fan of "talking down" the opponent, I like that Thisistheone mostly is focusing on his own team and what they will do to harm Anto.

I´m glad that you went with Cruyff - Maradona - Garrincha.

 

[Thisistheone]

You go show him Michael.

A comment made to try and motivate one of his players maybe?

Either way, a motivated Laudrup you might have. But due to your derogatory comments, my whole team is motivated for this. Maradona on a mission was always special to watch.

You laughing your tits off at Weah will come back to bite you. He is the only true no.9 on the pitch and therefore brings my team better balance. Football has a habit of haunting manager's so maybe Weah will pop up with the winning goal and celebrate in front of you.

 

[Thisistheone]

Thisistheone for me since I like his formation and unit more. Also not a big fan of "talking down" the opponent, I like that Thisistheone mostly is focusing on his own team and what they will do to harm Anto.

I´m glad that you went with Cruyff - Maradona - Garrincha.

My very own Holy Trinity!

And yes, I'm not a fan of talking down the opponents players either. Make it reasonable & structured, but not plain insulting.

 

[antohan]

Thisistheone for me since I like his formation and unit more. Also not a big fan of "talking down" the opponent, I like that Thisistheone mostly is focusing on his own team and what they will do to harm Anto.

I´m glad that you went with Cruyff - Maradona - Garrincha.

Interesting. My view is his pitch reads like "I can't stop him so I might as well put all the guns out there and see if it sticks".

And the only player I'm clearly talking down is Weah, who is completely out of his depth here.