Everything I've heard and read about McGrory suggests to me that he was some sort of 1930s Alan Shearer. Perhaps even better. That Scotland had him and Bob McPhail up top at the same time is remarkable, never mind the impressive supporting cast with the likes of James, Gallacher, Morton and Meiklejohn in the mix.
All time British+Irish Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
Fantastic read, Joga.
Cheers guys. Always nice to read up more on the underappreciated greats esp McGrory who was a great player and an equally great man. He held the utmost respect of everyone and no one had a single bad thing to say about him.
Everyone, including Stein, referred to him as ‘Boss’ and treated him with the respect he was due. With Celtic marching on to a dominance in Scotland that would last a decade, Stein guided them to the 1967 European Cup Final. McGrory travelled to Lisbon having lost his brother Harry shortly before the final. When the game was over and Stein’s immortal team had written their page of glory in Celtic’s history, an emotional McGrory was passed the big Cup by Jock Stein. He says in his own words that he just sat there holding the trophy and crying like a child.
Everyone, including Stein, referred to him as ‘Boss’ and treated him with the respect he was due. With Celtic marching on to a dominance in Scotland that would last a decade, Stein guided them to the 1967 European Cup Final. McGrory travelled to Lisbon having lost his brother Harry shortly before the final. When the game was over and Stein’s immortal team had written their page of glory in Celtic’s history, an emotional McGrory was passed the big Cup by Jock Stein. He says in his own words that he just sat there holding the trophy and crying like a child.
I actually broke down in tears of joy that night, the first time in all my years in the game that I had cried. What a thrill it was to see young boys like Murdoch, McNeill, Johnstone, Gemmell, Clark and Lennox coming of age. What a thrill it was to see the club I had served all my life reach its pinnacle. My one ambition now is to live long enough to shed some more tears into that magnificent European Cup."
Jimmy McGrory on Lisbon, from A Lifetime in Paradise, 1975
Jimmy McGrory on Lisbon, from A Lifetime in Paradise, 1975
When does the matches start?
Player Profiles [Rearguard]
Ray Clemence
5 league titles and 3 european cups… . Clemence was just as good a keeper as Shilton, if not better. For one simple reason, he had the most superb positional sense of possibly any England keeper. He always changed his position according to the intensity and level of play, he could see moves coming ahead and would just move into a decent enough position to win the ball. Which earned him the reputation of "Best England goalie" in a 2001 Total Football survey.
His repertoire of saves was astonishing, dropping to his right to keep out Jupp Heynckes’ penalty in the 1973 Uefa Cup final, pushing over a strike from St-Etienne’s Dominique Rocheteau on an epic quarter-final night at Anfield in 1977 and then spreading himself to block from Borussia Moenchengladbach’s Uli Stielike in the European Cup final of 1977. There was also a save at the near post from Manchester City’s Franny Lee, who tapped him respectfully on back. Banks, Shilton, Clemence.. he belongs in that company, a true goalkeeping great of the highest order.
Paul Reaney
Not many full backs can be described as George Best’s kryptonite, but this man was. The third highest cap winner for Leeds United, he was a colossus in defence and fantastic going forward. Incredibly quick, fantastic positioning but unlike Ashley Cole, capable of putting in quality crosses of either foot when going forward and a decent dribbler… this was a man described by George Best himself as capable of having him in his pocket and the best full back he has ever faced. Harry Redknapp named him as his right back of the 60s ahead of the likes of George Cohen and Jimmy Armfield. In my opinion if you can keep Bestie quiet, you can keep anyone quiet.
Bob Crompton
As a player, Crompton was both physically and mentally strong. His positioning was second to none and his solid ground game was complimented by his aerial supremacy. But Crompton did not let his formidable size and strength overrule his gamesmanship and he became well respected as one of the true gentleman of the game. Crompton had begun as a centre half but converted to full-back in the late 1890s. He had a reputation for robust tackling combined with a use of the shoulder charge, which would be penalized as rough play in more recent times. At his peak he was quick enough to recover if beaten or drawn out of position.He was a commanding figure, supreme in the air, but more importantly, a master tactician
While his meteoric rise at Rovers continued, Bob Crompton was recognised by his country. On the 3rd March 1902, Crompton made his debut for England at Right Back, soon becoming the first professional player to ever Captain them. Crompton held this position until the outbreak of the First World War, captaining 22 matches and earning a total of 41 caps. This record number of appearances was not exceeded until Billy Wright won his forty-second cap, in 1952.
Crompton went from strength to strength with Blackburn and in 1912, his persistence and tactical leadership were recognised with the ultimate; the Division One title. Two years later, Crompton's Rovers emulated this feat, cementing themselves as the greatest side of the pre-war era. However, Rovers never managed to win an FA cup with Crompton as a player, despite reaching the final in the premiership winning 1911-1912 season.
Billy McNeill
One of Britain’s most illustrious and successful centre-backs (first ever European cup captain and nicknamed Cesar) Billy's ability as a player was now at the forefront of Celtic's play. An incredibly strong and fearsomely competitive footballer, he commanded respect not only from his fellow players but from opposition players as well. Robust in the tackle and in the air, quality on the ball, he was a commanding player but it was his organisational skills and communicational abilities on the park that gave him an edge over others. He had an aura and despite his strong will, he was actually a pleasant and decent person at all times and few if any have ever had anything to say bad about him. There was no high & mighty attitude with Billy, and all were treated fairly.
There are various measurements for greatness. Billy McNeill stands as a pillar of Scottish football not because of his ability, though he was a commanding centre-half with a useful penchant of scoring important goals, most pertinently the winner in Jock Stein's first cup final as Celtic manager and the decider against a resilient Vojvodina en route to the European Cup. McNeill, though, was bigger than any position. He was the leader of a group of winners. Brought up under the discipline of a Forces father, McNeill was strong but always dignified.
His massive medal haul is the stock for a story that tells much of the man. Once asked at a party in his home to show his medals, McNeill asked one of his daughters to bring down "the poly bags that are behind the wardrobe". He then spread out the rewards of an era of domination on to a coffee table. Asked why he did not have those testimonies to overwhelming success on more prominent show, McNeill replied: "I want my kids to know me as a father, not a football player."
Sol Campbell
Immensely powerful, fantastic athletic specimen with great speed and positioning, at his peak was there a more complete CB than Sol Campbell? Excelled in countless international tournaments and wasn’t found wanting domestically or in Europe either as Arsenal’s run to the CL final proved. A great stopper but a brilliant attacking force in his own right especially in the big games, a genuine threat from set pieces.
Martin Keown PS For Jamie Redknapp’s information, Sol Campbell was a better defender than Tony Adams, but Tony was a better leader!
"Sol had become one of our main players, and we now had an absolute physical presence and stability at the back. He is monstrous and, with his full power and also his ability to score a goal, you have an outstanding player – Arsene wenger
Eddie Hapgood
The best left back in the draft and one of the best of all time. After collecting that FA Cup winner's medal in 1930, Hapgood played in all but four of Arsenal's games in their record-breaking 1930-31 campaign, when they became the first southern club to win the League championship, racking up a record haul of 66 points and netting a staggering 127 goals in the process. Another Wembley appearance followed in 1932 as Arsenal finished runners-up in both League and FA Cup, and then came three consecutive title triumphs between 1932-33 and 1934-35. Another FA Cup triumph was secured in 1936, and a fifth League championship in 1938.
Hapgood had become peerless in his position, carving out a reputation for class, composure and elegance in a previously unfashionable position. Technically outstanding, with great anticipation that contributed to astute positional sense, he was also a byword for consistency, playing in at least 35 matches in League, FA Cup and Charity Shield for the Gunners during each of ten consecutive seasons between 1929-30 and 1938-39. Arsenal's success in the 1930s, which brought five league championships and three cup final appearances, was based on Chapman's strategy of sound defence and rapid counter-attack. Hapgood, as left full-back, played a key role in this system. Of average height and medium build, he relied upon exceptional speed, precision in the tackle, excellent positional sense, and, despite his height, outstanding heading ability. His technique was to manoeuvre his opponent away from dangerous positions, dispossess with a well-timed tackle or interception, and set up an attack with a shrewdly placed, often short, pass.
Having succeeded Parker as Arsenal captain, the supremely confident Hapgood exuded calm authority as well as guts, making him a natural leader in the dressing room and on the pitch. It was inevitable that his prowess would be recognised by England, and he made his international debut against Italy in Rome, on 13 May 1933, a 1-1 draw. He duly became England captain too, and the first of his 21 games as skipper of the Three Lions was the infamous "Battle of Highbury" on 14 November 1934, against Italy, by now the reigning world champions following their World Cup triumph on home soil earlier that year.
Ray Clemence
5 league titles and 3 european cups… . Clemence was just as good a keeper as Shilton, if not better. For one simple reason, he had the most superb positional sense of possibly any England keeper. He always changed his position according to the intensity and level of play, he could see moves coming ahead and would just move into a decent enough position to win the ball. Which earned him the reputation of "Best England goalie" in a 2001 Total Football survey.
His repertoire of saves was astonishing, dropping to his right to keep out Jupp Heynckes’ penalty in the 1973 Uefa Cup final, pushing over a strike from St-Etienne’s Dominique Rocheteau on an epic quarter-final night at Anfield in 1977 and then spreading himself to block from Borussia Moenchengladbach’s Uli Stielike in the European Cup final of 1977. There was also a save at the near post from Manchester City’s Franny Lee, who tapped him respectfully on back. Banks, Shilton, Clemence.. he belongs in that company, a true goalkeeping great of the highest order.
Paul Reaney
Not many full backs can be described as George Best’s kryptonite, but this man was. The third highest cap winner for Leeds United, he was a colossus in defence and fantastic going forward. Incredibly quick, fantastic positioning but unlike Ashley Cole, capable of putting in quality crosses of either foot when going forward and a decent dribbler… this was a man described by George Best himself as capable of having him in his pocket and the best full back he has ever faced. Harry Redknapp named him as his right back of the 60s ahead of the likes of George Cohen and Jimmy Armfield. In my opinion if you can keep Bestie quiet, you can keep anyone quiet.
Bob Crompton
As a player, Crompton was both physically and mentally strong. His positioning was second to none and his solid ground game was complimented by his aerial supremacy. But Crompton did not let his formidable size and strength overrule his gamesmanship and he became well respected as one of the true gentleman of the game. Crompton had begun as a centre half but converted to full-back in the late 1890s. He had a reputation for robust tackling combined with a use of the shoulder charge, which would be penalized as rough play in more recent times. At his peak he was quick enough to recover if beaten or drawn out of position.He was a commanding figure, supreme in the air, but more importantly, a master tactician
While his meteoric rise at Rovers continued, Bob Crompton was recognised by his country. On the 3rd March 1902, Crompton made his debut for England at Right Back, soon becoming the first professional player to ever Captain them. Crompton held this position until the outbreak of the First World War, captaining 22 matches and earning a total of 41 caps. This record number of appearances was not exceeded until Billy Wright won his forty-second cap, in 1952.
Crompton went from strength to strength with Blackburn and in 1912, his persistence and tactical leadership were recognised with the ultimate; the Division One title. Two years later, Crompton's Rovers emulated this feat, cementing themselves as the greatest side of the pre-war era. However, Rovers never managed to win an FA cup with Crompton as a player, despite reaching the final in the premiership winning 1911-1912 season.
Billy McNeill
One of Britain’s most illustrious and successful centre-backs (first ever European cup captain and nicknamed Cesar) Billy's ability as a player was now at the forefront of Celtic's play. An incredibly strong and fearsomely competitive footballer, he commanded respect not only from his fellow players but from opposition players as well. Robust in the tackle and in the air, quality on the ball, he was a commanding player but it was his organisational skills and communicational abilities on the park that gave him an edge over others. He had an aura and despite his strong will, he was actually a pleasant and decent person at all times and few if any have ever had anything to say bad about him. There was no high & mighty attitude with Billy, and all were treated fairly.
There are various measurements for greatness. Billy McNeill stands as a pillar of Scottish football not because of his ability, though he was a commanding centre-half with a useful penchant of scoring important goals, most pertinently the winner in Jock Stein's first cup final as Celtic manager and the decider against a resilient Vojvodina en route to the European Cup. McNeill, though, was bigger than any position. He was the leader of a group of winners. Brought up under the discipline of a Forces father, McNeill was strong but always dignified.
His massive medal haul is the stock for a story that tells much of the man. Once asked at a party in his home to show his medals, McNeill asked one of his daughters to bring down "the poly bags that are behind the wardrobe". He then spread out the rewards of an era of domination on to a coffee table. Asked why he did not have those testimonies to overwhelming success on more prominent show, McNeill replied: "I want my kids to know me as a father, not a football player."
Sol Campbell
Immensely powerful, fantastic athletic specimen with great speed and positioning, at his peak was there a more complete CB than Sol Campbell? Excelled in countless international tournaments and wasn’t found wanting domestically or in Europe either as Arsenal’s run to the CL final proved. A great stopper but a brilliant attacking force in his own right especially in the big games, a genuine threat from set pieces.
Martin Keown PS For Jamie Redknapp’s information, Sol Campbell was a better defender than Tony Adams, but Tony was a better leader!
"Sol had become one of our main players, and we now had an absolute physical presence and stability at the back. He is monstrous and, with his full power and also his ability to score a goal, you have an outstanding player – Arsene wenger
Eddie Hapgood
The best left back in the draft and one of the best of all time. After collecting that FA Cup winner's medal in 1930, Hapgood played in all but four of Arsenal's games in their record-breaking 1930-31 campaign, when they became the first southern club to win the League championship, racking up a record haul of 66 points and netting a staggering 127 goals in the process. Another Wembley appearance followed in 1932 as Arsenal finished runners-up in both League and FA Cup, and then came three consecutive title triumphs between 1932-33 and 1934-35. Another FA Cup triumph was secured in 1936, and a fifth League championship in 1938.
Hapgood had become peerless in his position, carving out a reputation for class, composure and elegance in a previously unfashionable position. Technically outstanding, with great anticipation that contributed to astute positional sense, he was also a byword for consistency, playing in at least 35 matches in League, FA Cup and Charity Shield for the Gunners during each of ten consecutive seasons between 1929-30 and 1938-39. Arsenal's success in the 1930s, which brought five league championships and three cup final appearances, was based on Chapman's strategy of sound defence and rapid counter-attack. Hapgood, as left full-back, played a key role in this system. Of average height and medium build, he relied upon exceptional speed, precision in the tackle, excellent positional sense, and, despite his height, outstanding heading ability. His technique was to manoeuvre his opponent away from dangerous positions, dispossess with a well-timed tackle or interception, and set up an attack with a shrewdly placed, often short, pass.
Having succeeded Parker as Arsenal captain, the supremely confident Hapgood exuded calm authority as well as guts, making him a natural leader in the dressing room and on the pitch. It was inevitable that his prowess would be recognised by England, and he made his international debut against Italy in Rome, on 13 May 1933, a 1-1 draw. He duly became England captain too, and the first of his 21 games as skipper of the Three Lions was the infamous "Battle of Highbury" on 14 November 1934, against Italy, by now the reigning world champions following their World Cup triumph on home soil earlier that year.
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The Midfield
Dave Mackay
The stature of Dave Mackay in Tottenham folklore is vast and indisputable; indeed, to imagine Spurs' great sixties side without the vibrant Scot is to picture the Huns without Attila or the Alamo without Davy Crockett. Yet while it is right that so much is made of Dave's dynamic, warrior-like qualities - many have written that if Blanchflower was the brains of the team, Mackay was its heart - there is a danger of under-selling his sheer, unadulterated all-round talent. In fact many of the spurs players themselves considered Mackay the more influential player behind their success, although Blanchflower clearly was not in his physical prime at the time.
His control was second to none, he was the cleanest striker of a ball at the club and he passed with the utmost precision. And how the mighty left-half reveled in his skill; in training he would astonish team-mates by volleying continuously against a wall from ten or even 15 yards - anyone who doubts the difficulty of this trick should attempt it for themselves - and later, as Spurs captain, he would run on to the pitch, kick the ball high in the air, then catch it infallibly on his instep, a subtle form of intimidation that demanded of his opponents. 'Can you do that?'
All this is not to say, of course, that the traditional image of Dave Mackay is a myth. Despite standing just 5ft 8in, he exerted an awesome physical presence, muscular thighs and a barn-door of a chest topped by features that were positively piratical. The man tackled like a granite avalanche, exuding a passionate will to win and apparently consumed by a devilish, ruthless relish for his work. Colleagues leapt to do his bidding as he drove them on, invariably by stirring personal example, often by melodramatic gesture and abrasive Caledonian invective. He bustled tirelessly between attack and defence, typically winning the ball, flicking a pass, then surging forward to receive the return. On reaching enemy territory, he could finish venomously - as he proved with a hat-trick against West Ham in 1962- and another potent weapon was a prodigiously long throw.
Addicted as he was to winning at everything - Dave would pour his entire being into a casual game of snooker - it followed that he was devastated in defeat, a situation he strove so hard to avoid that in some 40 cup finals at all playing levels, he never finished on the losing side
In an era of hard men Bremner may well have been the hardest. A famous 1966 run-in saw him lose out to Dave Mackay and it was perhaps only the Tottenham legend who could match such a marriage of mastery of the game with a taste for the dark side.
Billy Bremner
A mixture of Scholes and Keane’s best attributes is probably the best way to describe Billy Bremner… an incredible iron clad will to win, world class technical ability, brilliant tactical awareness both in a defensive and attacking sense, he truly was the most complete midfielder the British Isles has produced and had the medals and the big game performances to back it up… this is a guy who dominated and held the fort in midfield against the likes of Neesken and Cruyff in a legendary European cup game against Barcelona in a semi-final. He’d get the ball off defenders, dictate the tempo alongside Johnny Giles and pop up with worldie strikes when the situation demanded it and I haven’t even mentioned his incredible ability to win the ball in midfield and intimidate opponents.
Raich Carter
Carter was that rare being, a magnificent maker and taker of goals, and were he playing today his transfer valuation would surely be astronomical. During his peak years and beyond, when his black hair had turned prematurely to a distinguished silver, he cut an imperious figure, radiating self-confidence as he strutted around the pitch, invariably dictating the course of a game. Some would (and did) call him arrogant, but there was no denying the Carter class. He shot thunderously with either foot, especially his left; his ball control was impeccable and his body-swerve little short of sublime; and, crucially, he possessed the intelligence to put these natural gifts to maximum use.
Raich Carter was one of the greatest inside-forwards ever produced by England, being often referred to as 'The Maestro' for the way he took control of games. He was the complete inside-forward who could create and take chances with equal flair. He had a fine footballing brain and could shoot fiercely with either foot. He was an arrogant performer, strutting around the midfield and dictating the flow of play as he saw fit. He had been a superb talent, the master of all the attacking arts. He carried shooting power in both foot and married his talent with resolution and dedication.
He could roll immaculate passes through the tiniest of gaps, sometimes seeming to shred defences at will, and much of his work alongside Stanley Matthews, when the two formed a right-wing pair for England, was breathtaking. Indeed, few men appreciated the footballing needs of 'The Wizard of Dribble' as Carter did, and, certainly from this distance, the reluctance of the selection committee (this was well before the days of the all-powerful team boss) to use them in tandem more regularly appears incomprehensible
Carter, who played for Sunderland and Derby in his extended prime, was a prince of a player. Skilled on the ball, a quality playmaker and goal scorer. Some consider him England’s finest ever inside forward, which given that was Bobby Charlton’s principle position, is saying something. His England career stretched over 13 years either side of the war and he was a major figure in Wartime internationals. So Raich belongs on this list without a doubt. The most direct comparisons should be with Rooney, young Scholes and Bobby Charlton who were similar in style i.e. a play-making midfielder who dictates the tempo of the game and can be a number 10 due to his goal-scoring prowess with fantastic ability to time runs into the box.
Quotes
Dave Mackay
The stature of Dave Mackay in Tottenham folklore is vast and indisputable; indeed, to imagine Spurs' great sixties side without the vibrant Scot is to picture the Huns without Attila or the Alamo without Davy Crockett. Yet while it is right that so much is made of Dave's dynamic, warrior-like qualities - many have written that if Blanchflower was the brains of the team, Mackay was its heart - there is a danger of under-selling his sheer, unadulterated all-round talent. In fact many of the spurs players themselves considered Mackay the more influential player behind their success, although Blanchflower clearly was not in his physical prime at the time.
His control was second to none, he was the cleanest striker of a ball at the club and he passed with the utmost precision. And how the mighty left-half reveled in his skill; in training he would astonish team-mates by volleying continuously against a wall from ten or even 15 yards - anyone who doubts the difficulty of this trick should attempt it for themselves - and later, as Spurs captain, he would run on to the pitch, kick the ball high in the air, then catch it infallibly on his instep, a subtle form of intimidation that demanded of his opponents. 'Can you do that?'
All this is not to say, of course, that the traditional image of Dave Mackay is a myth. Despite standing just 5ft 8in, he exerted an awesome physical presence, muscular thighs and a barn-door of a chest topped by features that were positively piratical. The man tackled like a granite avalanche, exuding a passionate will to win and apparently consumed by a devilish, ruthless relish for his work. Colleagues leapt to do his bidding as he drove them on, invariably by stirring personal example, often by melodramatic gesture and abrasive Caledonian invective. He bustled tirelessly between attack and defence, typically winning the ball, flicking a pass, then surging forward to receive the return. On reaching enemy territory, he could finish venomously - as he proved with a hat-trick against West Ham in 1962- and another potent weapon was a prodigiously long throw.
Addicted as he was to winning at everything - Dave would pour his entire being into a casual game of snooker - it followed that he was devastated in defeat, a situation he strove so hard to avoid that in some 40 cup finals at all playing levels, he never finished on the losing side
In an era of hard men Bremner may well have been the hardest. A famous 1966 run-in saw him lose out to Dave Mackay and it was perhaps only the Tottenham legend who could match such a marriage of mastery of the game with a taste for the dark side.
Billy Bremner
A mixture of Scholes and Keane’s best attributes is probably the best way to describe Billy Bremner… an incredible iron clad will to win, world class technical ability, brilliant tactical awareness both in a defensive and attacking sense, he truly was the most complete midfielder the British Isles has produced and had the medals and the big game performances to back it up… this is a guy who dominated and held the fort in midfield against the likes of Neesken and Cruyff in a legendary European cup game against Barcelona in a semi-final. He’d get the ball off defenders, dictate the tempo alongside Johnny Giles and pop up with worldie strikes when the situation demanded it and I haven’t even mentioned his incredible ability to win the ball in midfield and intimidate opponents.
Raich Carter
Carter was that rare being, a magnificent maker and taker of goals, and were he playing today his transfer valuation would surely be astronomical. During his peak years and beyond, when his black hair had turned prematurely to a distinguished silver, he cut an imperious figure, radiating self-confidence as he strutted around the pitch, invariably dictating the course of a game. Some would (and did) call him arrogant, but there was no denying the Carter class. He shot thunderously with either foot, especially his left; his ball control was impeccable and his body-swerve little short of sublime; and, crucially, he possessed the intelligence to put these natural gifts to maximum use.
Raich Carter was one of the greatest inside-forwards ever produced by England, being often referred to as 'The Maestro' for the way he took control of games. He was the complete inside-forward who could create and take chances with equal flair. He had a fine footballing brain and could shoot fiercely with either foot. He was an arrogant performer, strutting around the midfield and dictating the flow of play as he saw fit. He had been a superb talent, the master of all the attacking arts. He carried shooting power in both foot and married his talent with resolution and dedication.
He could roll immaculate passes through the tiniest of gaps, sometimes seeming to shred defences at will, and much of his work alongside Stanley Matthews, when the two formed a right-wing pair for England, was breathtaking. Indeed, few men appreciated the footballing needs of 'The Wizard of Dribble' as Carter did, and, certainly from this distance, the reluctance of the selection committee (this was well before the days of the all-powerful team boss) to use them in tandem more regularly appears incomprehensible
Carter, who played for Sunderland and Derby in his extended prime, was a prince of a player. Skilled on the ball, a quality playmaker and goal scorer. Some consider him England’s finest ever inside forward, which given that was Bobby Charlton’s principle position, is saying something. His England career stretched over 13 years either side of the war and he was a major figure in Wartime internationals. So Raich belongs on this list without a doubt. The most direct comparisons should be with Rooney, young Scholes and Bobby Charlton who were similar in style i.e. a play-making midfielder who dictates the tempo of the game and can be a number 10 due to his goal-scoring prowess with fantastic ability to time runs into the box.
Quotes
Round 1:
Group A Gio vs Stobz - 29th Nov, Saturday
Group B Raaes vs SirAF - 29th Nov, Saturday
Group C Skizzo vs Lynk - 30th Nov, Sunday
Group D MJJ vs Barney - 30th Nov, Sunday
Round 2:
Group A Gio vs Crappy - 1st December, Monday
Group B Annah vs Raees - 1st Dec, Monday
Group C Skizzo vs Chester - 2nd Dec, Tuesday
Group D MJJ vs EAP - 2nd Dec, Tuesday
Round 3:
Group A Stobz vs Crappy - 3rd Dec Wednesday
Group B SirAF vs Annah- 3rd Dec Wednesday
Group C Lynk vs Chester - 4th Dec, Thursday
Group D Barney vs EAP 4th Dec, Thursday
Group A Gio vs Stobz - 29th Nov, Saturday
Group B Raaes vs SirAF - 29th Nov, Saturday
Group C Skizzo vs Lynk - 30th Nov, Sunday
Group D MJJ vs Barney - 30th Nov, Sunday
Round 2:
Group A Gio vs Crappy - 1st December, Monday
Group B Annah vs Raees - 1st Dec, Monday
Group C Skizzo vs Chester - 2nd Dec, Tuesday
Group D MJJ vs EAP - 2nd Dec, Tuesday
Round 3:
Group A Stobz vs Crappy - 3rd Dec Wednesday
Group B SirAF vs Annah- 3rd Dec Wednesday
Group C Lynk vs Chester - 4th Dec, Thursday
Group D Barney vs EAP 4th Dec, Thursday
The Attack...
Alan Ball
Man of the match in a world cup final at the age of 21, the definition of a big match player.. an energizer bunny of the highest order with the quality to match it. Alan Ball came to prominence as the youngest member of England's 1966 World Cup winning squad. Aged just 21, he was an unknown playing for Blackpool at the time, but Alf Ramsey was aware of his reputation as a hard-working and tenacious midfielder and quickly made him part of the team.
His skill as a great passer of the ball and his stamina for joining attack and defence whenever it was needed was what his colleagues valued most about him. He was in fact made man of the match of the 1966 Final, following his performance.
His success in the World Cup prompted Everton to sign him for a £100,000 - a record at the time. He was not only one of the greatest players ever to represent Everton, he was also one of the most popular players ever to don the blue jersey. That popularity was understandable. Not only was he a supremely gifted and skillful footballer, he was able to marry that skill with unparalleled enthusiasm and a remarkable will-to-win. He always produced tireless, performances in centre midfield or on the right flank, and was great at positioning himself in the box.
Clifford William Jones
Capped 59 times for Walesand was a crucial member of Tottenham Hotspur's 1960–61 Double-winning side, being widely considered at the time as the best left winger in the world. Juventus were reported to have offered Spurs £100,000 for this brilliant player, whom most critics rate the finest winger in the country. Spurs had paid Swansea £35,000 for Jones in Feb 1958. From the research I have done on him (90 min games I have seen of him), he was two footed and whilst he has a truly exceptional goalscoring record for a winger… he was more of a winger that drifted in and helped to control a game (sometimes even as a number 10) rather than just hug the touchline, so in that sense he is different to Giggs and Bale.. has a way better eye for a pass for one thing but one thing they share is blistering pace and ability to beat men at will.
Peter Lorimer
Quick, agile, ambidextrous, could beat a man with ease and more importantly possessed fantastic movement in the final third and possessed what many claim is the hardest shot of all time. He along with Eddie Gray provided the world class width to an incredibly complete Leeds United side… whereas Gray was more considered in his approach and the more cultured, gifted player.. Lorimer was ruthless and incredibly incisive, a proper match winner and assassin like in his approach.. similar to Ronaldo now in terms of his thirst for goals.
Denis Law
Not much needs to be said about this guy. For me personally he is the most complete modern style striker in the draft, proven at all levels and world reknowned as evidenced by his Ballon d’or win. He was very like Van Basten in terms of style, incredibly ambidextrous, lethal from any position in the final third and a great scorer of goals as well as a scorer of great goals. Many see him as a goal poacher… but that is nowhere near the truth, he could be attacking midfielder, number 10, false 9 and wide player rolled into one, a one man attack if needs arose.. such was his movement and energy, he’d occupy all kinds of positions and be a threat regardless.
“He was the finest player that Scotland has ever produced and one of the greatest the world has ever seen. He was my idol as a player.” Sir Alex Ferguson
Denis was the best in the business, he could score goals from a hundredth of a chance never mind half of one". George Best
Alan Ball
Man of the match in a world cup final at the age of 21, the definition of a big match player.. an energizer bunny of the highest order with the quality to match it. Alan Ball came to prominence as the youngest member of England's 1966 World Cup winning squad. Aged just 21, he was an unknown playing for Blackpool at the time, but Alf Ramsey was aware of his reputation as a hard-working and tenacious midfielder and quickly made him part of the team.
His skill as a great passer of the ball and his stamina for joining attack and defence whenever it was needed was what his colleagues valued most about him. He was in fact made man of the match of the 1966 Final, following his performance.
His success in the World Cup prompted Everton to sign him for a £100,000 - a record at the time. He was not only one of the greatest players ever to represent Everton, he was also one of the most popular players ever to don the blue jersey. That popularity was understandable. Not only was he a supremely gifted and skillful footballer, he was able to marry that skill with unparalleled enthusiasm and a remarkable will-to-win. He always produced tireless, performances in centre midfield or on the right flank, and was great at positioning himself in the box.
Clifford William Jones
Capped 59 times for Walesand was a crucial member of Tottenham Hotspur's 1960–61 Double-winning side, being widely considered at the time as the best left winger in the world. Juventus were reported to have offered Spurs £100,000 for this brilliant player, whom most critics rate the finest winger in the country. Spurs had paid Swansea £35,000 for Jones in Feb 1958. From the research I have done on him (90 min games I have seen of him), he was two footed and whilst he has a truly exceptional goalscoring record for a winger… he was more of a winger that drifted in and helped to control a game (sometimes even as a number 10) rather than just hug the touchline, so in that sense he is different to Giggs and Bale.. has a way better eye for a pass for one thing but one thing they share is blistering pace and ability to beat men at will.
Peter Lorimer
Quick, agile, ambidextrous, could beat a man with ease and more importantly possessed fantastic movement in the final third and possessed what many claim is the hardest shot of all time. He along with Eddie Gray provided the world class width to an incredibly complete Leeds United side… whereas Gray was more considered in his approach and the more cultured, gifted player.. Lorimer was ruthless and incredibly incisive, a proper match winner and assassin like in his approach.. similar to Ronaldo now in terms of his thirst for goals.
Denis Law
Not much needs to be said about this guy. For me personally he is the most complete modern style striker in the draft, proven at all levels and world reknowned as evidenced by his Ballon d’or win. He was very like Van Basten in terms of style, incredibly ambidextrous, lethal from any position in the final third and a great scorer of goals as well as a scorer of great goals. Many see him as a goal poacher… but that is nowhere near the truth, he could be attacking midfielder, number 10, false 9 and wide player rolled into one, a one man attack if needs arose.. such was his movement and energy, he’d occupy all kinds of positions and be a threat regardless.
“He was the finest player that Scotland has ever produced and one of the greatest the world has ever seen. He was my idol as a player.” Sir Alex Ferguson
Denis was the best in the business, he could score goals from a hundredth of a chance never mind half of one". George Best
Above are the rounds/matches as originally posted (#2487)
I've just accepted a fairly big job, so I can't spend much on the ol' Caf - which is a bit shite, but whatcha gonna do, gotta make money for Christmas pudding and whatnot.
Anyway, I'm assuming at least one day's delay here as per the schedule above - which should mean I won't be in action until Wednesday (originally Tuesday). But I'll drop by on Tuesday anyway and check out where things stand - and if necessary PM someone a line-up + tactics for the next day.
Bottom line, though - I'll be pressed for time and I probably won't be on here at all until Tuesday. Well, now ye know.
I've just accepted a fairly big job, so I can't spend much on the ol' Caf - which is a bit shite, but whatcha gonna do, gotta make money for Christmas pudding and whatnot.
Anyway, I'm assuming at least one day's delay here as per the schedule above - which should mean I won't be in action until Wednesday (originally Tuesday). But I'll drop by on Tuesday anyway and check out where things stand - and if necessary PM someone a line-up + tactics for the next day.
Bottom line, though - I'll be pressed for time and I probably won't be on here at all until Tuesday. Well, now ye know.
I am gonna start @Gio and @Stobzilla match now
Sigh, I've screwed my original plan for my team since I had forgotten about the Englishmen rule! I might have to start Ferguson up front after all 
Hmmm, I need to give my overview of the squad soon.
When would you prefer to kick off our match mate? I'm fine with tomorrow afternoon, although tomorrow evening or anytime Tuesday would suit me best.
Same. Either time suits me.
Cool. I'll aim to have our write up submitted by tomorrow evening at the latest (working all night tonight) and @crappycraperson can kick off the match whenever he's around and we've both submitted our stuff.
Am I the only one a bit turned off with every single player being portrayed as the - straight down - best player of his position in history with no discussion. 
Am I the only one a bit turned off with every single player being portrayed as the - straight down - best player of his position in history with no discussion.
makes you wonder where all them chaps were in all those All-times/Decades drafts In fairness, I have absolutely no doubt about many of them being absolute beasts in their own right. The key thing though is the classic issue British sides have always had: the superlative attributes of most of them have to do with graft, determination, commitment and a certain bulldozing ability. The fundamental question is who will be able to mix that up with sufficient class/flair. Not only sufficient, but the right amount, without that core strength being jeopardised.
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Am I the only one a bit turned off with every single player being portrayed as the - straight down - best player of his position in history with no discussion.
I wondered if anyone would comment on thatWaiting for @Lynk and @Annahnomoss write ups
Me VS Raees?
Cheers mate, will finish it!
Am I the only one a bit turned off with every single player being portrayed as the - straight down - best player of his position in history with no discussion.
I think that debate will be played out pretty vigorously in some of the match threads!
@Raees need your tactics against sir af
We will all be guilty of that to differing extents. It's who can legitimately back it up that should be able to secure the votes - bullshitters will likely lose their credibility. I thought it was worse in the all-time drafts when anyone not in the TV era was painted as some sort of flawless combination of Baresi, Matthaus and Maradona, which was never helpful in trying to figure out what sort of player they were, what strengths they didn't have, and how they could fit into the team.Am I the only one a bit turned off with every single player being portrayed as the - straight down - best player of his position in history with no discussion.
@Lynk
I've submitted our tactics and formation graphic to Crappy, so we're ready to kick off whenever you are.
I've submitted our tactics and formation graphic to Crappy, so we're ready to kick off whenever you are.
Gotta type up my summary first.
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I am gonna start Raees and Annah's game
No problem. I'm not sure how often Skizzo will be online but I'm off work for a few days now so we don't mind when the game is started.
Sent my tactics vs. Skizzo to @crappycraperson
BTW Number of votes someone wins by will count as GD for the groups
There's only one other game going on right now so hopefully we can kick ours off soon.
It's up
You're bloody good - you'd got our game up and replied here within about two seconds of me hitting 'add post' there now!Best of luck mate! Well hopefully not enough luck to beat me, but luck elsewhere!
@crappycraperson is it too much to ask you to update OP with groups and teams and everything?
I will do it