sorry if it was posted before
anyway
Oh ffs what a load of absolute media build up horse shit. Would people stop quoting bullshit press articles.
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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Oh ffs what a load of absolute media build up horse shit. Would people stop quoting bullshit press articles.
I no that Daily Mail is a trust-worthy as junkie on drugs...but if they sold OT well that would be a sad day.
Read the independent ref this.. Interesting and scary read
Inclined to agree, Marchi. Renaming the stadium, especially in its centenary year, would likely be the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's not as bad when Stadiums are originally given corporate tags like the JJB and the Reebok Stadium, but like with the Sports Direct@ thing at SJP, this is likely to piss off everyone who cares about the historic moments we've had here as a club, and the history of Old Trafford. Plus the laughing stock it'll become if we end up as 'Wal-Mart Park' or some shit. It's another step away from the Mancunian roots of the club and towards anonymous corporate partnerships.
On another note, do people think that if ticket prices continue to rise enough (which they probably will considering past increases, and the struggling on debt repayments), whether there might be a boycott of matches at some point if the Glazers stay in charge (or do rename the stadium); or will those tickets just be snatched up by daytrippers or people reject the idea? Not seen the idea raised on here really.
Really bad reading, I have been hiding my head under the sand hoping its just bad press week, but its impossible to not read and feel shit.
Scroll down to the 4th house and see Joel Glazer's new house. So that's what he borrowed the money for!
Sports Home Tribune - Archives: Marshawn Lynch | Atlanta Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff | David Garrard | Joel Glazer | Andruw Jones | Kimbo Slice - Kevin Ferguson | Facts
Sports Home Tribune - Archives: Marshawn Lynch | Atlanta Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff | David Garrard | Joel Glazer | Andruw Jones | Kimbo Slice - Kevin Ferguson | Facts
I wasn't sure if this media attention was going to be mostly overstatements and hearsay at first, but looking through the evidence, I agree, it's impossible not to worry about the future of the club. Naming the stadium is worrying, but if the Glazers plan to stay at the helm, it might just be another step in the destruction of the tradition of the club.
Can't see them stabilising ticket prices either with the finances in their current state.
I think we all need to calm down a bit. The prospectus has to highlight all saleable assets and sources of finance to buy back the bonds. We already knew all this but the papers, mail and express in particular, are having a gayboy dramafest.
i wish i could adopt this mindset mate. Im just woried. I no little bout finance tricks and for me all this looks just bad.
I'M not saying we aren't in a tight spot but the media are having a doom wankfest and I think we just have to step back a bit and look at things a bit more rationally.
To be fair, the prospectus sets out that the Glazers are considering the sale of OT. Do you suggest the papers should just ignore it?
Did the Glazers have any other motives othen than sucking as much money as possible from United ? (rhetorical question btw)
but isn't it just trying to highlight it as a possible source of revenue. They need investors to feel comfortable about their returns. It also highlights the dangers of terrorist attack.
Is that a fair summation of it though? From my understanding, the prospectus has to list all conceivable issues that could affect the cash flow of the club or impact on the club.
The sale of OT and Carrington is an obvious option should the worst come to the worst - so legally it has to be mentioned in the prospectus. I don't think the Glazers are even close to actively looking for buyers for either property.
The Glazers had always said that they would never sell the stadium. So surely the document said "we cannot, however, sell Old Trafford as we promised the supporters".
But of course they made the same promises the government about not raising ticket prices.
If it can raise money and lower the debt, it's a viable option for the Glazers.
Yeah - it is a viable option. But I remain to be convinced it is anymore than that. People are going on like the Glazers are looking to sell the stadium and the training ground tomorrow. For me, at the moment, they are simply options that the Glazers would be legally bound to explore should we not be able to meet debt repayments and no 'promise' to the fans would, could or should change that.
In the prospectus, I am certain that saying they could not sell the stadium as they had promised people they would not, would simply not be legally acceptable.
Ive been agreeing with you a lot recently ralphie but I think you're being a bit silly here. Promises to supporters are not something you put in sales prospectuses. In the end they are highlighting all saleable assets to attract investors to the bond issue. I imagine it's a worst case option but then it always was wasn't it. It's not fecking news. There's no clear intention in the wording at all.
Is correct.
Bottom line is, the club is worth a lot less if they sell the stadium and training ground - so the odds of them selling the club at a decent profit for themselves reduce if they sell the properties.
I reckon they would only sell the stadium if they can't refinance as needed in the future (or sell to some mega rich arab for example). It is a last resort option imo.
I reckon they would only sell the stadium if they can't refinance as needed in the future (or sell to some mega rich arab for example). It is a last resort option imo.
It doesn't actually say that. It's says the club is not prohibited from selling it.
They are basically underlining the assets that are available should the shit hit the fan.
If it's the same scenario as Carrington then the sale and leaseback is with a group or glazer company anyway.
I think they will only consider selling it if they are with their backs to the wall. If they are successful in this bond issue and they manage to get rid of the 200 million PIK's then it wont be the case.
Something else we re forgetting is the bonds interest rate. considering that there will be 500 million, each 1% will contribute to roughly 5 million. So if there is lot of interest from investors in the bond issue and they manage to sell them at 7% rather than 9%, that will save the club 10 million a year.
Something else we re forgetting is the bonds interest rate. considering that there will be 500 million, each 1% will contribute to roughly 5 million. So if there is lot of interest from investors in the bond issue and they manage to sell them at 7% rather than 9%, that will save the club 10 million a year.
I don't know if this has been posted...
Maybe a positive view:
Man Utd bond issue already attracting major buyers
tribalfootball.com
United chief executive David Gill will today pitch the club's £500 million bond issue to potential investors in London amid growing confidence in the Glazer camp that the refinancing initiative – which may include the sale of the club's Carrington training ground - will be successful.
While some analysts have expressed scepticism about the attractiveness of the bond in a crowded market, The Daily Telegraph reports that significant orders in excess of £50 million have already been placed. There is an expectation within the Glazer team that orders will eventually run into billions.
If that is the case it will strengthen the Glazers' hand when they come to price the bond at the end of next week. The bond issue will remain at £500 million, but larger investors may have to settle for a smaller allocation.
"This is a well-run company whose owners have demonstrated it can get bigger and more successful," said one banker with knowledge of the sports market. "People will be attracted by the emotional link to United as well, but this is not a flaky investment. There is more risk in football than many other industries, but United are better protected than any other club."
Maybe a positive view:
Man Utd bond issue already attracting major buyers
tribalfootball.com
United chief executive David Gill will today pitch the club's £500 million bond issue to potential investors in London amid growing confidence in the Glazer camp that the refinancing initiative – which may include the sale of the club's Carrington training ground - will be successful.
While some analysts have expressed scepticism about the attractiveness of the bond in a crowded market, The Daily Telegraph reports that significant orders in excess of £50 million have already been placed. There is an expectation within the Glazer team that orders will eventually run into billions.
If that is the case it will strengthen the Glazers' hand when they come to price the bond at the end of next week. The bond issue will remain at £500 million, but larger investors may have to settle for a smaller allocation.
"This is a well-run company whose owners have demonstrated it can get bigger and more successful," said one banker with knowledge of the sports market. "People will be attracted by the emotional link to United as well, but this is not a flaky investment. There is more risk in football than many other industries, but United are better protected than any other club."
more good news ... maybe...
Is £500m bond scheme the start of the Glazer family's Manchester United exit strategy
Manchester United took their £500m bond roadshow to the City of London, meeting investors at the Grocers’ Hall, one of the numerous historic guild headquarters that lie in the shadow of the Bank of England
It seems apt given that Manchester United was run by a family of Cheshire meat packers for 40 years before being taken over by a Floridian family who have used the club as a cash machine.
As potential investors trooped in to hear David Gill’s sales pitch on behalf of the Glazers, the bigger question on many City minds is whether the bond issue signals the beginning of the end of the family’s tenure at Old Trafford.
The primary purpose of the bond is to buy the Glazer’s both money and time.
In the short term they need cash, and lots of it, to ease the burden of the payment-in-kind loans that currently stand at £200m and will balloon by another £30m this year.
In the medium-term they need to push back repayment of the £500m of “senior debt” owed to banks, which they are currently due to start repaying in 2013.
The £500m bond, maturing in 2017, will allow them to do both. More intriguingly, it may also offer them an insight into their long-term objective: a profitable sale of the club.
To achieve that they need to find a buyer, and the bond issue gives them the perfect opportunity to meet the candidates without having to put up the ‘For Sale’ signs.
The roadshow, which began in Asia on Monday and will reach the USA next week, has allowed the Glazers to bring together institutional investors, hedge-funds and representatives of the super-rich on three continents.
At the moment all that they are being offered is a bond, but down the line there may be much more on the table. At the very least the Glazers and their advisors can establish a short-list of serious potential buyers who will effectively already have a stake in the club having taken a slice of the bond.
All of which raises the question, what would United cost? Given that the Glazers put in £250m of their own money when they bought the club in 2005, and have since borrowed £700m, then £1 billion would seem a likely starting price.
Even that might be low. The Glazer’s believe that they have added great value to the club by driving up revenues and might well consider £50m a skinny profit on their investment. So try £1.1billion and be prepared to get to £1.2billion very quickly.
At that price in the current climate the shortlist of buyers will be very short indeed.
Is £500m bond scheme the start of the Glazer family's Manchester United exit strategy - Telegraph
Is £500m bond scheme the start of the Glazer family's Manchester United exit strategy
Manchester United took their £500m bond roadshow to the City of London, meeting investors at the Grocers’ Hall, one of the numerous historic guild headquarters that lie in the shadow of the Bank of England
It seems apt given that Manchester United was run by a family of Cheshire meat packers for 40 years before being taken over by a Floridian family who have used the club as a cash machine.
As potential investors trooped in to hear David Gill’s sales pitch on behalf of the Glazers, the bigger question on many City minds is whether the bond issue signals the beginning of the end of the family’s tenure at Old Trafford.
The primary purpose of the bond is to buy the Glazer’s both money and time.
In the short term they need cash, and lots of it, to ease the burden of the payment-in-kind loans that currently stand at £200m and will balloon by another £30m this year.
In the medium-term they need to push back repayment of the £500m of “senior debt” owed to banks, which they are currently due to start repaying in 2013.
The £500m bond, maturing in 2017, will allow them to do both. More intriguingly, it may also offer them an insight into their long-term objective: a profitable sale of the club.
To achieve that they need to find a buyer, and the bond issue gives them the perfect opportunity to meet the candidates without having to put up the ‘For Sale’ signs.
The roadshow, which began in Asia on Monday and will reach the USA next week, has allowed the Glazers to bring together institutional investors, hedge-funds and representatives of the super-rich on three continents.
At the moment all that they are being offered is a bond, but down the line there may be much more on the table. At the very least the Glazers and their advisors can establish a short-list of serious potential buyers who will effectively already have a stake in the club having taken a slice of the bond.
All of which raises the question, what would United cost? Given that the Glazers put in £250m of their own money when they bought the club in 2005, and have since borrowed £700m, then £1 billion would seem a likely starting price.
Even that might be low. The Glazer’s believe that they have added great value to the club by driving up revenues and might well consider £50m a skinny profit on their investment. So try £1.1billion and be prepared to get to £1.2billion very quickly.
At that price in the current climate the shortlist of buyers will be very short indeed.
Is £500m bond scheme the start of the Glazer family's Manchester United exit strategy - Telegraph
The end of the article is wrong i think.
it says they put in 250million of their own money. They did not. They put in 250million from the PIKs secured against their own assets, that they are looking for the club to repay - so effectively they have put in nothing of their own money.
If they sold the club for 100million over the total debt value, that is 100million profit on basically no investment.
Wish I could do something like that - money for freaking nothing!
At the time of the takeover I didn't think that a sale and leaseback of the stadium was very likely, and I still think it's unlikely. However, it's clear now just what a mess the Glazers have got themselves into and that desperate measures are called for to get themselves out. If interest rates in the medium term go up as a result of the bond issue, and profit goes down (quite possible) then there's going to be virtually no money to spend on squad investment.
Could the bond owners point to the options raised in the prospectus and put pressure on the Glazers to sell and leaseback? Not sure how company law works in that respect.
They're worth a lot less without the stadium. Not sure how much Carrington is worth. Do we know what's happening with that land on Trafford Park they bought?
I dare say they'd keep it for the moment. What it seriously looks like Ralphie is a simple way to get out. As I said earlier this week, they'll be looking for a potential buyer as much as new bond owners.
Are the writers who have written these articles respectable financial writers?
Do investors realize this is probably the cheapest way to get control of Manchester United? If the Glazers fail to pay up, then the entire club can essentially be picked up for fecking peanuts compared to what its worth. If I were a bond holder, I'd be quite willing to stick a clause in saying if Red football wish to sell MUFC blah blah, as bond holder I have immediate first choice blah blah blah at x amount of dollars if I wish.
Well you can be the judge of that yourself. Some are, some aren't. If in doubt, go with the FT!
Bloomberg and Reuters are also a good source.
I've always found Reuters to be too reliant upon PR.
They probably put that in when they bought their original holding before they launched the takeover.
I think the bond issue and a plan to pay off the piks shows they are in it for the long term.
I'm no expert on these bonds but I think the underwriters , ie. the banks, would take control. If the United goes tits up the banks pay the bond holders their money.
And take an equity share in the club. In those circumstances the priority of the banks would be to keep United going as a profitable going concern.
Roll up roll up, it's the United roadshow!
Aegon's Milburn grills Gill on Manchester United bond issue
By James Phillipps | 14:59:02 | 14 January 2010
Analyse every fund and fund manager in Citywire's Fund & Manager Performance area. Build charts to compare funds and managers and see how successfully fund have controlled risk while delivering returns.
Aegon High Yield Bond fund manager Phil Milburn admits to being very sceptical ahead of going to Manchester United’s Edinburgh bond presentation yesterday, but was won round by the business if not the yield price.
The Red Devils’ roadshow hit the Scottish capital yesterday as they look to raise £500 million from the capital markets.
Chief executive David Gill personally led the two and a half hour presentation, reflecting the defining nature of the deal for United, home to England star Wayne Rooney (pictured).
‘I went in very cynical but it is a much better business than I thought it was and the visibility of earnings is very good,’ Milburn says. ‘I would be happy to take the risk, but not at a yield of 8.75%. You have to make investment decisions with your head and not your heart, but I’m sure that a lot of investors won’t and they will get the deal away.’
Milburn, who is not a Manchester United fan, says the main issue is the amount of debt that the club carries, which has been widely publicised ever since Malcolm Glazer’s controversial takeover in 2005.
This has hit a staggering £700 million with £41.9 million annual interest payments biting deep into the club’s profits.
Milburn notes that £70 million from the fund-raising would be used to reduce the Glazers’ payment in kind loans- cash borrowed from hedge funds that rolls up a whopping 14.25% interest annually- by a third.
However, United will have to grow its earnings if it is to be able to afford to service its restructured debt. Milburn says there is still significant scope for this despite concerns in some quarters that the brand has already reached saturation point, globally. There remains considerable scope to grow revenues in Asia and the club has been canny in negotiating rights deals, for example around mobile phones, both regionally and at a national level, in order to maximise profitability.
Looking at the nitty gritty of the deal, Milburn says that the club’s Old Trafford stadium is not technically being used as collateral, with the issue being backed by the business. That said, should there be in asset sale, such as a sale and lease back deal, which United is planning for its Carrington training complex, bond holders would have a senior claim should the club go bust.
‘It is backed by the business and the team and the stadium and not future revenues,’ he says. ‘If United did go bust there would be a debt for equity swap but the bondholders and the banks would not want the club to sell off the players and the stadium because they would want to keep it as a going concern.’
In another positive for supporters, Milburn stressed that Gill said the club will continue to invest in the team to try and maintain the club’s success on the pitch. More galling for the United faithful is the fact that the Glazer family rips £6 million a year out of the club in ‘consultancy’ and ‘management fees.’
‘It’s not often you get to grill the chief executive of Manchester United,’ Milburn adds. ‘It was an interesting presentation and not a bad business but the yield price is not right, especially when a lot of other companies are coming to the market offering much better value.’
The United roadshow rumbles on to Asia and the US next in what must be one of the longest high yield debt raisings in recent memory. The price is expected to be set at the end of next week.
Aegon's Milburn grills Gill on Manchester United bond issue | New Model Adviser ® | Citywire
Aegon's Milburn grills Gill on Manchester United bond issue
By James Phillipps | 14:59:02 | 14 January 2010
Analyse every fund and fund manager in Citywire's Fund & Manager Performance area. Build charts to compare funds and managers and see how successfully fund have controlled risk while delivering returns.
Aegon High Yield Bond fund manager Phil Milburn admits to being very sceptical ahead of going to Manchester United’s Edinburgh bond presentation yesterday, but was won round by the business if not the yield price.
The Red Devils’ roadshow hit the Scottish capital yesterday as they look to raise £500 million from the capital markets.
Chief executive David Gill personally led the two and a half hour presentation, reflecting the defining nature of the deal for United, home to England star Wayne Rooney (pictured).
‘I went in very cynical but it is a much better business than I thought it was and the visibility of earnings is very good,’ Milburn says. ‘I would be happy to take the risk, but not at a yield of 8.75%. You have to make investment decisions with your head and not your heart, but I’m sure that a lot of investors won’t and they will get the deal away.’
Milburn, who is not a Manchester United fan, says the main issue is the amount of debt that the club carries, which has been widely publicised ever since Malcolm Glazer’s controversial takeover in 2005.
This has hit a staggering £700 million with £41.9 million annual interest payments biting deep into the club’s profits.
Milburn notes that £70 million from the fund-raising would be used to reduce the Glazers’ payment in kind loans- cash borrowed from hedge funds that rolls up a whopping 14.25% interest annually- by a third.
However, United will have to grow its earnings if it is to be able to afford to service its restructured debt. Milburn says there is still significant scope for this despite concerns in some quarters that the brand has already reached saturation point, globally. There remains considerable scope to grow revenues in Asia and the club has been canny in negotiating rights deals, for example around mobile phones, both regionally and at a national level, in order to maximise profitability.
Looking at the nitty gritty of the deal, Milburn says that the club’s Old Trafford stadium is not technically being used as collateral, with the issue being backed by the business. That said, should there be in asset sale, such as a sale and lease back deal, which United is planning for its Carrington training complex, bond holders would have a senior claim should the club go bust.
‘It is backed by the business and the team and the stadium and not future revenues,’ he says. ‘If United did go bust there would be a debt for equity swap but the bondholders and the banks would not want the club to sell off the players and the stadium because they would want to keep it as a going concern.’
In another positive for supporters, Milburn stressed that Gill said the club will continue to invest in the team to try and maintain the club’s success on the pitch. More galling for the United faithful is the fact that the Glazer family rips £6 million a year out of the club in ‘consultancy’ and ‘management fees.’
‘It’s not often you get to grill the chief executive of Manchester United,’ Milburn adds. ‘It was an interesting presentation and not a bad business but the yield price is not right, especially when a lot of other companies are coming to the market offering much better value.’
The United roadshow rumbles on to Asia and the US next in what must be one of the longest high yield debt raisings in recent memory. The price is expected to be set at the end of next week.
Aegon's Milburn grills Gill on Manchester United bond issue | New Model Adviser ® | Citywire
I saw that. Relatively promising I thought.
Or they may look for a quick sale offering to the highest bidder who will get United at a knock down price and have money to invest.
Wishful thinking ......
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