But you said the Glazers had no money and that the club would be forced to pay back all of the PIK loan! Jesus Christ. Can I have my pint of Stella now please?ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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But you said the Glazers had no money and that the club would be forced to pay back all of the PIK loan! Jesus Christ. Can I have my pint of Stella now please?
Deal. Are you in Valencia?
Not sure bring able to scrape up £12m in 2008 proves much about paying off the other £180m in 2010.
You don't know if it was £12m. You and everyone else knows feck all about the PIKs and that's the problem. I mean what if they bought back more than 20%? What then eh? Even if it was ''only'' 20% it's now blatantly obvious that they won't need to take the annual CNI dividend out year after year. Would you at least agree with that?
I'm not going to Valencia, no. Once you've decided to come back to Old Trafford with your tail between your legs I'll take you up on the offer.
Hadn't realised you were going to Valencia, Andy. Will be good to catch up over a few San Migs.
Was pleasantly surprised I hadn't been blacklisted!
Pm me your mobile.
GCHQ it was only 20%, the source is impeccable and accurate..
Are you trying to tell me that RFJV now owes Glazer that money..
I fecking hate the world of global finance.
20% of it apparently.
Cheers for the info anders
I would like to point out that I had put foward the possibility that the Glazers had repurchased some of the debt at discounted prices on several occasions in the past.
Of course, the usual suspects told me I didnt know what I was talking about and reeled out the standard worst case scenario bollocks!
It is nice to be proven right (again)
I would like to point out that I had put foward the possibility that the Glazers had repurchased some of the debt at discounted prices on several occasions in the past.
Of course, the usual suspects told me I didnt know what I was talking about and reeled out the standard worst case scenario bollocks!
It is nice to be proven right (again)
Quite a few have been chubbed for this one actually, including some in the LP. But there's a second ballot so fingers' crossed. We'll be there one way of the other.
brilliant move by big Mal.. you poor bastards !- he takes out a loan that you are paying for, then he buys a piece of that loan at a reduced price and now he's billing you all for it.
You can bet your life he's paying himself the 16.5% too!
I think all this demonstrates is than noone has got a fecking clue what's going on and that all comment is utter speculation. Good stuff rood. As you were..
As Rood's was speculation also. At least one will hit the mark. It doesn't mean it is not worthy of discussion though.
- he takes out a loan that you are paying for, then he buys a piece of that loan at a reduced price and now he's billing you all for it.
You can bet your life he's paying himself the 16.5% too!
The phrase 'right royally shafted' comes to mind.
True. But he was talking from a position of more knowledge than we have.
No he isn't unless he works for the Glazers.
Interest on the interest- a master stroke.
- he takes out a loan that you are paying for, then he buys a piece of that loan at a reduced price and now he's billing you all for it.
You can bet your life he's paying himself the 16.5% too!
Except that ''we'' haven't been paying for the PIK loan and ''he'' hasn't billed us for it. Other than that you're bang on the money as usual robertson.
You sound pleased that the fans are being shafted in a new and unusual way.
How have the fans been shafted? This is all about the Glazers dealing with their own debt. That's a good thing surely?
So what have we been paying for, GCHQ? And where has all the money from these new sponsorship deals you keep telling us about on here gone? All this money coming into the club is great - but what's happened to it?
Because as far as I can see, there appears to have been hundreds of millions of pounds that have disappeared from our club and we've not even seen a reduction in the debt the club is under. In fact it's gone up.
Why should we be pleased about this latest development?
It doesn't make a whole lot of difference if the Glazer's pay down the debt out of Man Utd funds or take the funds out of Man Utd to pay it down, does it?
As you were then flipper.
So what have we been paying for, GCHQ? And where has all the money from these new sponsorship deals you keep telling us about on here gone? All this money coming into the club is great - but what's happened to it?
Because as far as I can see, there appears to have been hundreds of millions of pounds that have disappeared from our club and we've not even seen a reduction in the debt the club is under. In fact it's gone up.
Why should we be pleased about this latest development?
Keep up ralphie...
The club was paying the interest on the old bank debt until it was refinanced with the bond issuance. The club is now paying interest on those bonds.
The ''PIKs'' are secured against the Glazers shareholding in Red Football Limited. They aren't secured against the club's assets. Since the bond issue was completed Andersred/MUST etc have been telling anyone that will listen that the club will be responsible for repaying all of that PIK debt (the Glazers debt) because the Glazer family, according to them, don't have the cash to repay it themselves and are unable to refinance it. It now turns out that the Glazers actually hold 20% of that debt which means it won't be necessary for the club to repay that part of the debt. Which is very good news obviously. It means the owners are in a stronger position than many were led to believe and it means that less money will leave the club even in the worst case scenario that Andersred/MUST have put forward.
The money from all the new sponsorship deals is helping to fund the club's expenses and improve its operating performance.
The club's net debt has come down by about £100m since June 30 2008.
You should be over the moon ralphie! Why are you all so miserable?
I'm drunk so can someone summarise.
GCHQ is a cnut and a bore, Ander's heart is in the right place but he's a bit of a bore too. I like Ralphie, cos his heart's in the right place and he's quite amusing.
Mid 2008 a family whose main property business is deep in the shit conjures up £12.6-14m to buy the PIKs.
December 2008 they borrow £10m from United. Why do billionaires do that?
That loan is at 5.5% but the PIKs pay 14.25% (now 16.25%).
If the club passes money to RFJV to pay them down (at par), the gimps make a profit using the club's cash.
Club money buys the PIKs at a discount, club money "repays" them later at par.
And GCHQ thinks having his own pocket picked by these twats is a good thing.
Reminds me of victims of domestic violence who think it's "their fault".
December 2008 they borrow £10m from United. Why do billionaires do that?
That loan is at 5.5% but the PIKs pay 14.25% (now 16.25%).
If the club passes money to RFJV to pay them down (at par), the gimps make a profit using the club's cash.
Club money buys the PIKs at a discount, club money "repays" them later at par.
And GCHQ thinks having his own pocket picked by these twats is a good thing.
Reminds me of victims of domestic violence who think it's "their fault".
And only one of them is close to reality. Which is all that matters for any Manchester United fan (yes that's Manchester United, not Arsenal) reading this who wants to know what's happening to the club on a financial level.
Go to bed Anders. You've had one too many.
And just before I go to bed Anders, what would you now calculate the chances of your little group of Red Knights buying out the Glazers to be, in the not too distant future?
You said 50/50 a month or two back. Are you still sticking to that?
Please tell me you're not quite that mental.
You said 50/50 a month or two back. Are you still sticking to that?
Please tell me you're not quite that mental.
You're right, the interest has built up.
You can be sure that he's happy to find another way to take multi-millions out of the club though.
I like this. I almost lolled.
So basically, it has been learned that 20% of the PIK debt is payable to Malcolm Glazer. The more of the PIK debt that he buys, the more he can take out of the club without reprisal. Say the whole PIK debt is acquired at £230-£250m in total. They let it spiral to £600m by 2017. They can take as much as they want out of United at that point.
TMRD will say let's see. feck that, I'm not waiting for anyone to be proved wrong or right, I'm simply suggesting an option that could happen. It's quite scary when you think about it.
You're certainly not wired up right, that's for sure.
He does seem a little tense. Not included in the memo?
He's right though. If the Red Knobs had a 1% chance of convincing the owners to sell before, this news has reduced that chance to 0.01%.
What do I have to be angry about?
If the dividend is taken out then the club will just continue operating normally. Operating successfully.
The only people who should be angry are the poor souls who boycotted the club they love on the back of your faulty analysis. They're the real victims here.
Personally I'm loving the strength in depth in our squad so far this season.
I know loads of people who love the ACS and paying 40% more for their seats than they were five years ago.
I think whoring our "brand" round the world and pricing out our core support is great.
I prefer owners who make one public statement about the club in five years.
Every penny from one-off windfalls like selling the best player in the world should go to the owners in my view, why should we care?
If the owners avoid paying any tax on the club's profits then good luck to them, Salford doesn't REALLY need a maternity unit. The public sector is bloated and this is a good market discipline.
I like the reputation of the greatest football manager in the history of the English game being besmirched. Adds to the spice.
This trend of replacing long standing reds with tits with credit cards and megastore bags HELPS the atmosphere. It really does.
Everything is great. I have no idea why people make a fuss.
Sit down, watch the match and shut up.
FFS anders - get off your bloody soapbox.
Maternity units in Salford?! You've clearly lost the plot there ... this is the kind of sensationalist bollocks I expect from others, shame you are going that way as well.
Maternity units in Salford?! You've clearly lost the plot there ... this is the kind of sensationalist bollocks I expect from others, shame you are going that way as well.
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