Ignorance. That was my estimate before the prospectus. I didn't realize they had pitched it so low. Next time I'll read the prospectus.
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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Ignorance. That was my estimate before the prospectus. I didn't realize they had pitched it so low. Next time I'll read the prospectus.
Interesting points. I think some here are finding it difficult to get to grips with the fact that investors are not valuing United at an inflated price just because it's United.
1.3billion seems a fair valuation for a business that makes only tens of millions of profits - depending on how much is invested in the team.
Can't wait til the Glazer's are gone. 2-3 more years I reckon...
I thought your post was a joke until I found the genuine article. Here's the "original" anyway:
YES! That's the one I was looking for.
The creator must work for GS or buy-side...not some place like BAML. You can see the difference in quality and analysis U.S. investors don't care about United - they're buying a potential growth story. We could be making biscuits for all they care. (Well, not really - the P/E wouldn't fly - but they aren't buying the stock because they love us.)
Can't imagine why you think the Glazers are going anywhere. First off, they'd have to find something else to do with a shit load of money - not so easy to do if you want to make a reasonable rate of return. Second, they've owned the Bucs for 17 years now - had plenty of opportunities to sell up and take the profits, but they didn't. They seem to like owning sports teams.
I predict a lot of bannings occuring on that day on RedCafe.
Even with the Bucs the boys always did the hands-on stuff, and since his strokes in 2006 I think Malcolm has been pretty much out of the picture. His dying might destabilise the family a bit, but I suspect the IPO may have been partially to give any family members who wanted out a way to dispose of their holdings. The 10 to 1 voting would ensure that any remaining Glazers kept control.
I'm not talking day to day control I'm talking ownership.
Any decision to sell a 'share' (if that exists in the current family structure) would be based on loss or gain, that's all.
Speculate as much as you want, my point is that neither of us knows, and I'm not pretending to.
Ownership lies with "certain Glazer family trusts" - certainly not with Malcolm at this point (or estate taxes would kill them).
My point was simply that, if the assets can be untangled, having a listed stock would make it relatively simple to dispose of a proportion of their United ownership without prejudicing their ability to control the club. Of course it's all speculation - I don't actually expect one of the kids to take $250m and go to Hollywood to make movies, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
ESPN lose out to BT in bidding for Premier League broadcast rights in £3 billion deal
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9329988/ESPN-lose-out-to-BT-in-bidding-for-Premier-League-broadcast-rights-in-3-billion-deal.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9329988/ESPN-lose-out-to-BT-in-bidding-for-Premier-League-broadcast-rights-in-3-billion-deal.html
Two conclusions:
1) As an overseas fan I better be prepared to pay even more to get to see matches.
2) The value of the club will continue to increase substantially so long as the Glazers are willing to spend the sums necessary to get the best players and stay at or near the top of the league table.
1) As an overseas fan I better be prepared to pay even more to get to see matches.
2) The value of the club will continue to increase substantially so long as the Glazers are willing to spend the sums necessary to get the best players and stay at or near the top of the league table.
Well it seems the next set of accounts are about to be released:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Champions-League-elimination-last-season.html
So it seems despite the rapid increase in the commercial sector, the club remains very sensitive to falls in matchday, though reaching the CL final the season before makes the comparison look maybe a little worse than it actually is.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Champions-League-elimination-last-season.html
- Drop in revenue and profits partly due to the early exit from the Champions League (certainly compared to reaching the final the season before, which was the most lucrative ever)
- Exiting in the group stage cost £14m compared to last season
- £10m drop in matchday income due to four fewer home games, including the FA cup run being only two games, both away
- Wages have gone up by 10% compared to last year
- Commercial revenue up by 13% (up to £117m) including the DHL deal
So it seems despite the rapid increase in the commercial sector, the club remains very sensitive to falls in matchday, though reaching the CL final the season before makes the comparison look maybe a little worse than it actually is.
This was all in the IPO prospectus - there's actually nothing new in the Telegraph article. We'll get the detail tomorrow when the Q4 and Annual are released ( www.mufplc.com )
Manchester United are expected to report a drop in profits as a result of the club's failure to progress in the Champions League last season.
The club will announce the full-year results on Tuesday for the year ending June 30 2012.
In unaudited estimates presented to potential investors last month, the club predicted a fall in revenue of between 3% and 5% - an estimated £315m to £320m compared to £334m for the year ending June 2011.
It is also expected to show that wages have risen by around 10% compared to 2011, but that commercial deals, such with training kit partner DHL, have also risen by as much as 13% to £117m, softening the blow of the fall in broadcast income and prize money from European football.
The overall revenue drop is a direct result of United's failure to get into the knockout stages of the Champions League, especially compared to the 2010/2011 season when they reached the final - which was the most lucrative final ever.
The impact of being knocked out of the FA Cup in the fourth round also has had an knock-on effect on matchday income.
The results come against the background of pressure on the price of the shares - totalling 10% of the club - sold on the New York Stock Exchange last month.
The Glazers had valued the shares at between 16 and 20 US dollars, but they were sold for 14 dollars and now the price has dropped to 12 dollars.
The absence of Champions League income from the knockout stages cost United £14m in income from UEFA compared to the previous season. There also a £10million fall in matchday income due to four fewer home matches taking place.
Even so, United should still be comfortably in third place in the table of the world's biggest-earning clubs behind Real Madrid and Barcelona.
Madrid's revenues for the 2011-12 financial year were 514m euros (£415m), a 7% rise, while Barcelona's of 494.9m euros (£399m) represent a 4.5% increase.
When United issued their third-quarterly report for the nine months ending March 31, the 9.9% wage increase was put down to new players and new contracts.
The quarterly financial report stated: "This increase largely relates to growth in player remuneration, driven by new player acquisitions and further contractual negotiations together with increased costs and headcount arising from the continued growth in our sponsorship and commercial operations."
The club will announce the full-year results on Tuesday for the year ending June 30 2012.
In unaudited estimates presented to potential investors last month, the club predicted a fall in revenue of between 3% and 5% - an estimated £315m to £320m compared to £334m for the year ending June 2011.
It is also expected to show that wages have risen by around 10% compared to 2011, but that commercial deals, such with training kit partner DHL, have also risen by as much as 13% to £117m, softening the blow of the fall in broadcast income and prize money from European football.
The overall revenue drop is a direct result of United's failure to get into the knockout stages of the Champions League, especially compared to the 2010/2011 season when they reached the final - which was the most lucrative final ever.
The impact of being knocked out of the FA Cup in the fourth round also has had an knock-on effect on matchday income.
The results come against the background of pressure on the price of the shares - totalling 10% of the club - sold on the New York Stock Exchange last month.
The Glazers had valued the shares at between 16 and 20 US dollars, but they were sold for 14 dollars and now the price has dropped to 12 dollars.
The absence of Champions League income from the knockout stages cost United £14m in income from UEFA compared to the previous season. There also a £10million fall in matchday income due to four fewer home matches taking place.
Even so, United should still be comfortably in third place in the table of the world's biggest-earning clubs behind Real Madrid and Barcelona.
Madrid's revenues for the 2011-12 financial year were 514m euros (£415m), a 7% rise, while Barcelona's of 494.9m euros (£399m) represent a 4.5% increase.
When United issued their third-quarterly report for the nine months ending March 31, the 9.9% wage increase was put down to new players and new contracts.
The quarterly financial report stated: "This increase largely relates to growth in player remuneration, driven by new player acquisitions and further contractual negotiations together with increased costs and headcount arising from the continued growth in our sponsorship and commercial operations."
Man Utd's annual results out - 3.3% drop in revenue to £320.2m.
Commercial income tops broadcast + matchday for first time.
Commercial income tops broadcast + matchday for first time.
a deep CL run, next year's improved telly deal and we should once again claw back some of the gap between us and madrid (this past fiscal year the gap was 100 million quid IIRC).
cash on hand crushed from last fiscal year.
we can't buy back ronnie now.
cash on hand crushed from last fiscal year
.we can't buy back ronnie now.
Talks of MUFC's demise are greatly exaggerated, no?
Same as it ever was.
The always are.
conference call starting
has cal? applied for a job in the new HK office?
lost the call just as it was going into forward outlook
weak first question by jeffries analyst. Probably told by their IBD side to give some softies even though research is supposed to be independent.
2nd question is decent. regarding asia strategy.
General Framework in going after sponsors is firstly targeting a product/space in a given coutnry/region rather than the other way around.
2nd question is decent. regarding asia strategy.
General Framework in going after sponsors is firstly targeting a product/space in a given coutnry/region rather than the other way around.
No guidance given regarding leverage ratio. supposedly no leverage ratio used by the club as a target either internally
DB analyst asking about ronnie coming home
They just said our net spend was 29m Pounds. That sounds very low to me.
$559m shirt sponsorship deal.
i wish the kit answer was more along the lines of we will be looking to negotiate with a number of world class companies in hopes of finding a world-record partnership.
I wonder if we will even ask for adidas to submit a bid.
I wonder if we will even ask for adidas to submit a bid.
Surely the club knows what it's doing on kits? They must have given it a bit of thought.
i'm sure they they do. but i wish outwardly the posture was more along the lines of entertaining new bidders rather than seeming to just go with nike.
I'm sure nike would outbid adidas anyways so it is a moot point
I Might be misaken but That would only include last year's spending as this year's should show up in the 2012-2013 accounts. That figure will only include part of the fees for de yea and co too as we usually pay in installments.
No that was for Q1(July-Sep)
Net spend for 2011-12 was £49.5m - spent £58.9m; received £9.4m.
De Gea, Young and Jones were bought in FY 2010-11, but mostly paid for in FY 2011-12 (that was simply a timing issue in transferring cash). There was a £9.3m payable carried over from 2010-11 to 2011-12. This summer's purchases all fell into FY 2012-13, so nothing has shown up yet.
I wouldn't worry about the kit. They seem to know what they're doing in terms of getting logos on it, so getting the best deal for someone making it shouldn't be an issue.
Anyone know when the financial reports will be published? Still can't find anything on the mufplc website and I thought they would be published on tuesday.
they dont appear on there anymore as we have a new Investor Relations section on the official website instead:
http://ir.manutd.com
Annual report appears under SEC Filings
Aha, thanks!
It's not looking too bad I think. Revenue down a bit, as was expected with the results on the pitch last year but the EBITDA and also net profit is still very good compared to most clubs. Also the commercial revenue keeps going up every year. I wonder if they can keep this up.
The only negative thing maybe is the cash reserves that have dropped by about 50% or so.
I'm curious what the Swiss Ramble's take on this will be.
But I guess the Q1 of this season will be much more interesting with the IPO and all.
The only negative thing maybe is the cash reserves that have dropped by about 50% or so.
I'm curious what the Swiss Ramble's take on this will be.
But I guess the Q1 of this season will be much more interesting with the IPO and all.
Looking back, the whole IPO really was a bit of a let down. It is in the fans interests that the club is valued as high as possible. After the roadtrips around asia and the attempts to drum up interest to float there with the original figures reported in the media, the amount made from the float was definitely disappointing.
I suppose I fell for the hype - the club is worth a lot of money, just no where near the figures the Glazer PR machine banded out.
I suppose I fell for the hype - the club is worth a lot of money, just no where near the figures the Glazer PR machine banded out.
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