ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remember now kids, and you'll be hearing this for months, any drop in share price, no matter how small = the Glazers are finished and MUST will soon have control of the club.
 
20120809_manu1_0.png


Opened around the IPO price (when usually stock prices 'pop' at their first day of trading). It's now being heavily defended at $14.00 - which isn't really a good start.
 
Jeffries I think. It'll break 14.00 tomorrow and then start sinking probably.
 
Cut the price from an indicative $16-20 to $14 and still no pop.

Whats the lock in period? 30, 60 or longer?
 
So how does this all work and what does it mean?

Can somebody explain why the stock value goes up and down, and what it means if it goes up/down significantly?
 
Adam-Utd said:
So how does this all work and what does it mean?

Can somebody explain why the stock value goes up and down, and what it means if it goes up/down significantly?
Click to expand...

The Glazers have made their money. It doesn't really matter if it drops. Be better for the chances of them selling a bigger share of their ownership later if the share price goes up.
But the Glazers losing more control of the club is the last thing MUST want apparently.
 
Adam-Utd said:
So how does this all work and what does it mean?

Can somebody explain why the stock value goes up and down, and what it means if it goes up/down significantly?
Click to expand...

If the price goes up, it means people are buying shares. If it goes down, people are selling them.

The reasons for buying and selling range from people making a quick buck by small fluctuations in price to people who think that, in the long term, the value will go up or down. Which ultimately depends on whether or not they think the club will continue to be successful, on and off the pitch,
 
Jaz said:
Probably more than £300million at the takeover. And a lot more since paying off the PIKs.

The club is probably too big for "any" billionaire to buy us now. It's value has double or tripled since. So getting new owners who will also retire the debt is near impossible. That's why the IPO is a good idea to reduce the debt.
Click to expand...

The IPO isn't a good idea to reduce the debt. Because it isn't reducing the debt. Not significantly at least. 63.6m of proceeds will be put to reducing the debt, which equates to saving less than 4m a year in our interest payments. (that figure from andersred). Also confirmed that the club will be paying for the IPO expenses, so net savings for the club are very low indeed. We're actually footing the bill...feck do the Glazers have some nerve.
 
I don't think you can short a stock immediately after the IPO. There is a mechanism(supposedly) in place in the US to prevent shorting for a month after the IPO.
 
Jaz said:
Nonense, doubling the clubs value means:

- Bigger fanbase
- Bigger more exploited markets
- Greater revenues
- Reduced operating costs

The clubs value reflects what the club does, it benefits the club, and the Glazers. If the clubs value declined, or was static it means there's a fundamental problem with the business model. If Arsenals' club value declined by half; it would reflect the clubs performance, and thus the owners too. It's the same for United. It does matter, it is important, for both the owners and the club itself. To pretend otherwise is pure nonsense.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the little summary there.

No its not nonsense at all. I perfectly understand the importance of business growth...so long as the tangible effects of this are re-invested exclusively by the club. Unfortunately that isn't the case here. You missed something off your little list as well....perhaps you can work it out.
 
Bebe said:
The IPO isn't a good idea to reduce the debt. Because it isn't reducing the debt. Not significantly at least. 63.6m of proceeds will be put to reducing the debt, which equates to saving less than 4m a year in our interest payments. (that figure from andersred). Also confirmed that the club will be paying for the IPO expenses, so net savings for the club are very low indeed. We're actually footing the bill...feck do the Glazers have some nerve.
Click to expand...

And if its a success, and they decide to sell more of their ownership, and use that to reduce the debt, will you complain?

It's people like Andersred and Drasdo who hope and pray that United goes the way of Rangers that should really clear off and stick with FCUM. If they get their way the real United will end up in the same league position as FCUM anyway.
 
Bebe said:
The IPO isn't a good idea to reduce the debt. Because it isn't reducing the debt. Not significantly at least. 63.6m of proceeds will be put to reducing the debt, which equates to saving less than 4m a year in our interest payments. (that figure from andersred). Also confirmed that the club will be paying for the IPO expenses, so net savings for the club are very low indeed. We're actually footing the bill...feck do the Glazers have some nerve.
Click to expand...

Still waiting to hear on a better to reduce debt. Perhaps we should sell some players instead? Or a charity? (yeah because people will really want to give money to the Glazers to repay debt..err not). The IPO is done, let's hope it's valuation remains stable over the next couple of months to the Glazers are tempted to sell more and pay down some debt too.

Comsmit said:
Thanks for the little summary there.

No its not nonsense at all. I perfectly understand the importance of business growth...so long as the tangible effects of this are re-invested exclusively by the club. Unfortunately that isn't the case here. You missed something off your little list as well....perhaps you can work it out.
Click to expand...

But there's obviously investment going into the business. The club has increased in value considerably. That didn't happen without investment into the marketing and commercial sales team, which has been transformed and practically the biggest growth area. Yeah, Manchester United is not only about the players (though a very important park). The club employs 700+ people, they aren't just groundsman, players and coaches.
 
Excal said:
I hope none of the people here planning to short the stock actually did. At $16-20 I could understand, but at $14, we were back in the realm of reasonable valuation of the club.
Click to expand...

I'm not shorting them currently.
 
Sir Matt said:
I don't think you can short a stock immediately after the IPO. There is a mechanism(supposedly) in place in the US to prevent shorting for a month after the IPO.
Click to expand...

There's not really any mechanism in place that prevents it, but it can be difficult because at the time of IPO, most of the shares will be owned by the underwriters and people/funds who were early buyers, most of whom will be disinclined to lend their stock (which they want to go up, naturally,) to short-sellers. That said, it can still be done, as it was in the Facebook IPO.
 
Any idea how well the shares are selling? How many of the 16.6 million shares have actually been bought?
 
Jaz said:
But there's obviously investment going into the business. The club has increased in value considerably. That didn't happen without investment into the marketing and commercial sales team, which has been transformed and practically the biggest growth area. Yeah, Manchester United is not only about the players (though a very important park). The club employs 700+ people, they aren't just groundsman, players and coaches.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for enlightening me on the staffing situation.

Yes some of it has been invested back into the club....and damn right too....but not nearly enough. The commercial arm has been dramatically improved, as it was a particular source area of income that could be increased quickly and effectively, mainly to allow the Glazers breathing room.

United's value was always going to continue increasing due to their inherent popularity, soaring media and matchday income, and continued success on the pitch. Unfortunately the present financial situation does not mirror the business growth achieved since 2005.
 
Canuckred64 said:
Any idea how well the shares are selling? How many of the 16.6 million shares have actually been bought?
Click to expand...

http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/Man Utd.html

Here is the page they are listed on.

Anybody know why the trading volume is 24,748,738? Isnt this the amount of shares that are traded in the day? :confused: Doesnt make much sense if only 16.6mil have been issued
 
David Gill: "The owners understand that what happens on the pitch is crucial..we'll make sure we've sufficient funds to invest in the team."
 
thegregster said:
http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/Man Utd.html

Here is the page they are listed on.

Anybody know why the trading volume is 24,748,738? Isnt this the amount of shares that are traded in the day? :confused: Doesnt make much sense if only 16.6mil have been issued
Click to expand...

Could be buying and selling of shares? In other words, volume is how many shares were moved from hand to hand? Not sure.
 
thegregster said:
http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/Man Utd.html

Here is the page they are listed on.

Anybody know why the trading volume is 24,748,738? Isnt this the amount of shares that are traded in the day? :confused: Doesnt make much sense if only 16.6mil have been issued
Click to expand...

Some of those shares then changing hands?
 
Comsmit said:
Excuse me. Why in flaming hell would an average Manchester United fan give two shits about the club doubling in value since the Glazer takeover?

That doubling in value benefits them and them alone. They will reap the benefits. It's not an amazing achievement at all, it's a cynical exploitation of the rules of capitalism from opportunistic businessmen who have only one goal....to reap a load of fecking buck off the back of an iconic sporting institution they had no hand in the building of.

They also won't give a shit who owns the club after they are gone. Just another bunch of greedy investors and hedge funds who are interested in $$$ and nothing more. The people at the top of MUST are a tad too self-righteous for my liking, but at least they recognise what the Glazers are. They are not shit-eating businessmen, they are supporters of the club...just like you...just like me. They are passionate about Manchester United and to be fair, whether their campaign is poorly managed or there are seperate agendas to fuel....at least they are not sitting on a hedge.

I cannot for the life of me understand how a Manchester United supporter can hold such plain admiration for people who have exploited their club in the manner they have....and will continue to do so.
Click to expand...



Meanwhile, back in the real world....

Football is a business and I'm amazed some people still do not understand this.

While you were sleeping the world has moved on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.