For #2 The Glazers can't buy back a certain amount of bonds before 2013. So 10% is probably whats needed to reach the current limit on the amount they can buy back.
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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For #2 The Glazers can't buy back a certain amount of bonds before 2013. So 10% is probably whats needed to reach the current limit on the amount they can buy back.
Meh, they sell you nothing for 150M , no embarassment on that
Disappointing news I must say
Yeah, I agree. MUST complain about the debt, but then hamper any attempts to reduce it!
Well if they want to make a point it is what they have to do.
Like I said before. I do not support their approach but at last they are backing up with actual real actions.
That action being what?
They don't have the financial power to reduce debt.
They don't know anyone who can reduce the debt.
They stop all attempts by Glazers to reduce debt.
When does it start trading publicly? I have a gut feeling that it will be going further down quite soon, and a share price of $10 would shave almost 30 % off the already "disappointing" valuation.
By using GCHQ's $1.8bn figure (I haven't looked at the numbers myself), a share price of $10 would mean a valuation of $1.3bn, which is far below what they would have been hoping for.
Disappointing news, I'd say. Something as "simple" as a marquee signing could probably sway the trend though, so it's all guesswork of course.
By using GCHQ's $1.8bn figure (I haven't looked at the numbers myself), a share price of $10 would mean a valuation of $1.3bn, which is far below what they would have been hoping for.
Disappointing news, I'd say. Something as "simple" as a marquee signing could probably sway the trend though, so it's all guesswork of course.
Their number one goal is and always has been to see the back of the Glazers. I suppose they will worry about the aftermath if they ever achieve their aims.
This is another issue I have with MUST, that they have never outlined properly what happens next.
But their most ardent fans probably dont care. They can not look beyond and only want them gone.
And that's what makes MUST the clowns they are...who in their right mind goes into a campaign like that?!
The fact that the Glazer's have DOUBLED the value of the club seems to pass most people by...that is an amazing achievement!
And I doubt the Glazer's are spending their windfall on burgers and fries or a nice holiday somewhere....if they now have $X more in the bank it is likely to be used in their other business ventures which then eases the pressure on MU.
Does anyone remember how the PLC price reacted when we signed someone like Veron, RvN, Rio or Rooney (though that was getting close to the takeover time)?
Were the markets that reactive to transfer muppetry? I love the idea of Warren Buffett refreshing goal.com waiting for us to sign someone major to increase the share-price
I do not think any of the transfer deals we may conduct now and in january will shift the share price much.
The next 'news' that will shift the share price IMO, is in sept when the foreign tv rights for the premiership are announced (this is besides any marketing deals that might pop up).
The next 'news' that will shift the share price IMO, is in sept when the foreign tv rights for the premiership are announced (this is besides any marketing deals that might pop up).
Does anyone remember how the PLC price reacted when we signed someone like Veron, RvN, Rio or Rooney (though that was getting close to the takeover time)?
Were the markets that reactive to transfer muppetry? I love the idea of Warren Buffett refreshing goal.com waiting for us to sign someone major to increase the share-price
I'm too young to remember anything about what it was like before the Glazers took over. Even though it seems simple though, most of the market reactions are based on simple psychology (depending on which mindset you subscribe to when it comes to description of how the market acts), and from that vantage point it's easy to see how a marquee signing could change the market perception.
The club's ability to generate money will rely heavily on continued success, which in turn will be determined in large by player quality, and thus ability to attract high calibre players.
Like I said though, this is all guesswork, but it would certainly be interesting to see how the stock price responds if we for instance sign a van Persie (not that I think we will). I'm sure there's examples out there from other clubs at least of how the market responds to signing though.
I'm not sure about that. There's so much said and written about our inability to compete in the transfer market. A big signing would go a long way in rejecting that conjecture, and I think it could influence the overall expectations (and thus the stock price).
I'm the same with my memory of the plc days (didn't seem the need to pay that much attention to the business side then, and I was never in a position to invest at that age) - would be interesting if markets did react to those deals though. Perhaps they'd react badly, i.e. "Why are they committing 50% of our annual profits on a 18 year old?" or something.
Excuse me. Why in flaming hell would an average Manchester United fan give two shits about the club doubling in value since the Glazer takeover?
That doubling in value benefits them and them alone. They will reap the benefits. It's not an amazing achievement at all, it's a cynical exploitation of the rules of capitalism from opportunistic businessmen who have only one goal....to reap a load of fecking buck off the back of an iconic sporting institution they had no hand in the building of.
They also won't give a shit who owns the club after they are gone. Just another bunch of greedy investors and hedge funds who are interested in $$$ and nothing more. The people at the top of MUST are a tad too self-righteous for my liking, but at least they recognise what the Glazers are. They are not shit-eating businessmen, they are supporters of the club...just like you...just like me. They are passionate about Manchester United and to be fair, whether their campaign is poorly managed or there are seperate agendas to fuel....at least they are not sitting on a hedge.
I cannot for the life of me understand how a Manchester United supporter can hold such plain admiration for people who have exploited their club in the manner they have....and will continue to do so.
Nonense, doubling the clubs value means:
- Bigger fanbase
- Bigger more exploited markets
- Greater revenues
- Reduced operating costs
The clubs value reflects what the club does, it benefits the club, and the Glazers. If the clubs value declined, or was static it means there's a fundamental problem with the business model. If Arsenals' club value declined by half; it would reflect the clubs performance, and thus the owners too. It's the same for United. It does matter, it is important, for both the owners and the club itself. To pretend otherwise is pure nonsense.
He isn't a United fan.
Wow, I'll do some cartwheels down SMBW then shall I?
There is a fundamental problem with the business model. It's not their fecking money they are playing with.
Question asked to me earlier as follows:
So the Glazers, who plunged your club into debt to buy it and have invested the square root of feck all in it since are now gonna sell shares in the club and pocket a percentage of the proceedings from that also instead of paying off the money they borrowed??
In the simplest of terms of course.
How are you all not, to a man/woman, going batshit over this?
The same thing has been goign round in my mind all summer.
How people can be apathetic, or worse supportive, to these cnuts is beyond me.
I hope they get set on fire.
So the Glazers, who plunged your club into debt to buy it and have invested the square root of feck all in it since are now gonna sell shares in the club and pocket a percentage of the proceedings from that also instead of paying off the money they borrowed??
In the simplest of terms of course.
How are you all not, to a man/woman, going batshit over this?
The same thing has been goign round in my mind all summer.
How people can be apathetic, or worse supportive, to these cnuts is beyond me.
I hope they get set on fire.
They have doubled the value of their investment through success on the pitch.
These evil, self-serving, profit-guzzling capitalists have a strong incentive to continue the success and build for a future after Sir Alex retires. Otherwise they won't be able to profit and invest in other businesses.
If the Glazers do badly, then they will have to sell to someone else. United are never going to be bought by the fans. MUST's goals were always a fantasy (everyone chip in a bob, and we can buy the club). The Red Knights would have disillusioned the fans as well had they succeeded. I think a number of those investors were looking to profit off a good thing at a good price if the Glazers should succumb to public pressure to sell.
No, the only owner who wouldn't seek a profit is a sugar daddy. For a club the size of United it would have to be a very big sugar daddy. Is the Sultan of Brunei a football fan?
These evil, self-serving, profit-guzzling capitalists have a strong incentive to continue the success and build for a future after Sir Alex retires. Otherwise they won't be able to profit and invest in other businesses.
If the Glazers do badly, then they will have to sell to someone else. United are never going to be bought by the fans. MUST's goals were always a fantasy (everyone chip in a bob, and we can buy the club). The Red Knights would have disillusioned the fans as well had they succeeded. I think a number of those investors were looking to profit off a good thing at a good price if the Glazers should succumb to public pressure to sell.
No, the only owner who wouldn't seek a profit is a sugar daddy. For a club the size of United it would have to be a very big sugar daddy. Is the Sultan of Brunei a football fan?
They'll own less of the club thjan they did before this.
Guess what, if the Glazers sold the whole club they would do so pocketing a big profit.
Or would you rather United crashed and burned rather than them selling at a profit?
It is their money. They spent shit loads of buying the club. They also borrowed heavily to do that, and put some of the debt onto the club. They are not thieves by any measure. Either way, that debt is still theirs, so it's still THEIR business with the debt.
Think of this way.
You have £1000, you go buy a shop on the high street for £1500, you borrow £500, which you then put that debt on the shops accounts. Your business is still borrowing £500. It's not a scam, it's just accounting. If thee Glazer's didn't put the debt on MUFC, they would take £40mn dividends. Either way, it's the same.
Secondly, we should be doing cartwheels. Because if the club was doing badly. We'd be in another Leeds/Rangers positions. (Bad ownership and bad financial management).
Because there's nothing we can do, and it's a legitimate business practice. It's been 7 years now under Glazer ownership. No amount of bullshit ranting is going to change that. We've also won the the CL, and the EPL multiple times. It's not a crisis.
They are selling their own shares, so why shouldn't they pocket the proceedings?
If the debt is manageable, then what is the rush to pay it off? Better to invest in the health of the rest of the Glazer holdings. Otherwise bankruptcy elsewhere could lead to greater problems for the club in the future.
and how much of their money has gone into it?????and folk wonder why fans are pissed off?
I can't believe some of what I'm hearing.I'm not questioning the legalitites, or the morals, ort he business eithics of it.
I'm looking at it as a United fan. They took our club, plunged us into debt, have been taking money out of the club in huge sums, are pocketing an absolute fortunes in this flotation and all for the great sum of feck ALL invested in the club.
As a United fan of 25 odd years that makes my piss boil.
Then I have United fans, fecking United fans tell me they're not doing anything wrong, they are alright owners and dance to their fecking ridiculous tune.
Utter, Utter madness.
I hope their Bentley takes a wrong turn into Moss Side one Saturday evening.
cnuts,
Absolutely. I think it would depend a lot on the situation of the club though, and as I said with us there's so much said about our inability to spend big that I think almost any big transfer would result in a positive reaction.
Perhaps we'll find out soon enough though. To the muppet forum!
and folk wonder why fans are pissed off?
Probably more than £300million at the takeover. And a lot more since paying off the PIKs.
The club is probably too big for "any" billionaire to buy us now. It's value has double or tripled since. So getting new owners who will also retire the debt is near impossible. That's why the IPO is a good idea to reduce the debt.
I'm not questioning the legalitites, or the morals, ort he business eithics of it.
I'm looking at it as a United fan. They took our club, plunged us into debt, have been taking money out of the club in huge sums, are pocketing an absolute fortunes in this flotation and all for the great sum of feck ALL invested in the club.
As a United fan of 25 odd years that makes my piss boil.
Then I have United fans, fecking United fans tell me they're not doing anything wrong, they are alright owners and dance to their fecking ridiculous tune.
Utter, Utter madness.
I hope their Bentley takes a wrong turn into Moss Side one Saturday evening.
cnuts,
So if the Sultan of Brunei buys United for 2 billion tomorrow and the Glazers make a massive profit, will you be happy?
Or would you prefer United to go the way of Rangers?
I get the feeling you would prefer the latter.
Did they pay the PIK's with their own money? I thought that they would have had to borrow to pay them back?
I'm not questioning the legalitites, or the morals, ort he business eithics of it.
I'm looking at it as a United fan. They took our club, plunged us into debt, have been taking money out of the club in huge sums, are pocketing an absolute fortunes in this flotation and all for the great sum of feck ALL invested in the club.
As a United fan of 25 odd years that makes my piss boil.
Then I have United fans, fecking United fans tell me they're not doing anything wrong, they are alright owners and dance to their fecking ridiculous tune.
Utter, Utter madness.
I hope their Bentley takes a wrong turn into Moss Side one Saturday evening.
cnuts,
You have a very one sided view of the situation, and obviously don't have any ability of looking at it from a more pragmatic perspective.
Fact of the matter is, the Glazers bought the club as an investment, and for that investment to continue to pay off they are depending to the continued on-pitch success of the club. As it happens, that goal is aligned with what most of the fans are hoping for.
It's not about whether or not fans are happy to see them make a profit from the club we support. I'd be happy to see the back of them as well, but as long as we're able to stay competitive that's all that matters for most. And the fact of the matter is that there's very little indicating otherwise. The doomsayers have been saying that we'll be lagging behind the competition for almost a decade now, but yet here we are.
But if they borrowed then would probably have to take money out of the club to pay them back?
This IPO can (and probably does) do that, and might be one of the reasons for it in the first place. We don't know.
It might be that the Glazer's had that much money, or had to borrow some to get rid of the PIKs. If they did borrow, then this IPO, helps them reduce their (and the clubs) debt at the same time. If they didn't, then the pressure on dividends will be less (which is beneficial for the club).
You said that they paid the PIKs with their own money and removed them off the clubs books, but in reality they borrowed money to pay them off and are using money from the club to pay them back with. So the burden is still with the club and not the owners.
You also missed my earlier post saying that it makes no difference. The health of the Glazer's family pocket is in the interest of the club.
BTW: the opening bell has been rung.
Doesn't the float start nowish?
Anyone going to buy any shares?
Here we go:
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:Man Utd&sq=NYSE:Man Utd&sp=1
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:Man Utd&sq=NYSE:Man Utd&sp=1
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