ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances

[Aaron]

It's old ground but the 'net spend' argument just seems too futile to get into. Surely you spend whatever is required to gain success or retain it.

Surely the only time when grumbling is justified is when over spending is paired off with under achievement or lack of spending leads to lack of success. Other than that all other arguments are just semantically pedantic.

 

[Ferguson]

These streamlined decision making processes have brought us which players recently? Bebe? Obertan?

Hernandez for one. Back in the PLC days everything had to end up in the press. The Nani and Anderson transfers came out of the blue as well and under the noses of the Spanish clubs.

a very high level of on-field performance.

If you don't think United have had a very high level of on-field performance since the Glazers came, then I'd have to question how far back your memory goes as a United fan.

 

[ciderman9000000]

Crusoe isn't a United fan, lads, he's an oppo WUM.

 

[kietotheworld]

The same andersred who got it completely wrong about the PIKs, whilst Gill was proved to be telling the truth all along? Is there a link to where Andersred says that btw?

https://twitter.com/#!/andersred

2001-5 accounts, net cash transfer spend £89.4m. 2006-10 accounts, net cash transfer spend £56.0m. Shouldn't mislead Parliament!

The PIKs thing was a prediction, I assume this is a presentation of the facts, much less likely to be wrong.

Here's his blog on it

the andersred blog: How not to communicate with Parliament and supporters

 

[Untied]

I'd need to watch the video to comment properly and it requires fecking Silverlight. Parliament.tv needs Silverlight or Windows Media. Ridiculous.

 

[robertsoncrusoe]

If you don't think United have had a very high level of on-field performance since the Glazers came, then I'd have to question how far back your memory goes as a United fan.

Favourite player- Gerry Daly (..................... who? )

Favourite game- Real 3 United 3 (................... when? )

 

[TheMancRedDevil]

the andersred blog: How not to communicate with Parliament and supporters

I do have to wonder what Anders' motives are these days. There was a point to all of this twelve months ago. Unfortunately, the point was based on his (incorrect) belief that the Glazers would have no choice but to sell United if they couldn't withdraw every last penny of the £95million they were entitled to after the Bond Issue.

Not only did the Glazers NOT take any money but they also cleared the PIKs without any apparent effect on Manchester United's finances.

Now, he just seems to be getting a bit petty to me.

His own breakdown of the pre-post Glazer era net expenditure does indeed show that Gill was incorrect to say that our net spend was lower in the pre-era than the post-era. Gill should really know better how to word these things when he knows full well that people like Andersred and MUST will jump on them without a second's hesitation.

However... most people aren't really counting. Hand on heart, how many of us compared five year periods of transfer spending in the past? Very few, I'd suggest. What matters more than spending money is trophies in the cabinet.

At the end of the day, whilst it DOES have to be counted in the figures, I still maintain that the £80million from the Ronaldo sale was a really exceptional amount and it has screwed the net expenditure up completely and the only way to "balance the books" would have been to spend it whether we needed to spend it or not.

Only an idiot would suggest that we do that (especially when we have remained competitive on the field WITHOUT spending it).

Over to you our resident idiots...

 

[ciderman9000000]

Include wages and Gill was right, surely?

 

[TheMancRedDevil]

Include wages and Gill was right, surely?

Probably. Gill only said "our net spend on players" (according to Andersred - haven't heard the interview myself) and doesn't specify that though. That's what I was saying about how Gill should know better how to word these things.

 

[finneh]

At the end of the day, whilst it DOES have to be counted in the figures, I still maintain that the £80million from the Ronaldo sale was a really exceptional amount and it has screwed the net expenditure up completely and the only way to "balance the books" would have been to spend it whether we needed to spend it or not.

Only an idiot would suggest that we do that (especially when we have remained competitive on the field WITHOUT spending it).

Over to you our resident idiots...

I don't agree that only an idiot would suggest that we reinvest a good portion of the Ronaldo money on the squad. I think most people would agree we are two top players away from a great squad. As City/Chelsea/us in the past (among others) have proved good players generally cost big cash. E.g. would you agree that the likes of Silva/Toure would improve our chances of success this season?

 

[GCHQ]

Include wages and Gill was right, surely?

Exactly.

Usual Andersred bollocks.

 

[TheMancRedDevil]

I don't agree that only an idiot would suggest that we reinvest a good portion of the Ronaldo money on the squad. I think most people would agree we are two top players away from a great squad. As City/Chelsea/us in the past (among others) have proved good players generally cost big cash. E.g. would you agree that the likes of Silva/Toure would improve our chances of success this season?

Ok. You don't agree and others don't agree. We've been around this particular Mulberry Bush a million times.

At the end of the day, however, you are arguing against Fergie, not me.

The only way that you could prove that money wasn't spent was because we don't have any would be to point to an empty bank account. Not even Andersred or MUST can spin the figures to show that though so what are you left with?

What you're doing there is seeing where we are now (which isn't a bad position, overall) and assuming that a couple of changes would have made it better when there's no guarantee that that would be the case at all.

I just wish some people would have a bit more faith in the people at the helm of Manchester United because, all things considered, they do seem to know what they're doing.

If we had £100million in the bank and we hadn't even come close to winning a trophy for six years, I'd understand the argument a bit more but that's not the case, is it?

 

[GCHQ]

These streamlined decision making processes have brought us which players recently? Bebe? Obertan?

How about Hernandez and Smalling, you complete and utter tool?

 

[ciderman9000000]

Probably. Gill only said "our net spend on players" (according to Andersred - haven't heard the interview myself) and doesn't specify that though. That's what I was saying about how Gill should know better how to word these things.

Yeah I watched the video; he just said net spend on players, presumably he meant transfer funds + wages.

 

[B Cantona]

Would all the Glazer defenders who've regularly told me that net spend means feck all kindly explain why Gill was trying to use it to defend the owners today? Incorrectly, as we well know. Perhaps if he's engage with some of these supporter groups he seems to delight in the club ignoring, he'd have had his facts correct in this aspect and saved himself the embarrassment...

 

[finneh]

Exactly.

Usual Andersred bollocks.

Including wages in net transfer sound is the moronic thing, not pointing out a moronic mistake/omission. Even if wasn't it would be pulling the wool over our eyes, given that 5 years ago the highest paid player was paid around half of nowadays.

Ok. You don't agree and others don't agree. We've been around this particular Mulberry Bush a million times.

At the end of the day, however, you are arguing against Fergie, not me.

The only way that you could prove that money wasn't spent was because we don't have any would be to point to an empty bank account. Not even Andersred or MUST can spin the figures to show that though so what are you left with?

What you're doing there is seeing where we are now (which isn't a bad position, overall) and assuming that a couple of changes would have made it better when there's no guarantee that that would be the case at all.

I just wish some people would have a bit more faith in the people at the helm of Manchester United because, all things considered, they do seem to know what they're doing.

If we had £100million in the bank and we hadn't even come close to winning a trophy for six years, I'd understand the argument a bit more but that's not the case, is it?

Maybe I'm totally wrong but when the likes of GCHQ tell us we are making £55m per year after interest and have well over £100m in the bank and the owners have no reason to take an extra penny after this, whilst at the same time Fergie tells us that there is no value despite bargains being had left, right and centre it makes you wonder. Particularly since there is not one fan on this forum or in general that didn't see an obvious squad weakness at the start of the season.

 

[ciderman9000000]

Would all the Glazer defenders who've regularly told me that net spend means feck all kindly explain why Gill was trying to use it to defend the owners today? Incorrectly, as we well know. Perhaps if he's engage with some of these supporter groups he seems to delight in the club ignoring, he'd have had his facts correct in this aspect and saved himself the embarrassment...

Gill explained the situation at United very well today. It's not for me or anyone else to explain his words, but presumably when he said 'spend' he meant total wages plus transfer fees; reasonable enough, no?

 

[ciderman9000000]

Including wages in net transfer sound is the moronic thing, not pointing out a moronic mistake/omission. Even if wasn't it would be pulling the wool over our eyes, given that 5 years ago the highest paid player was paid around half of nowadays.

Yes, I think that was his point.

 

[TheMancRedDevil]

Maybe I'm totally wrong but when the likes of GCHQ tell us we are making £55m per year after interest and have well over £100m in the bank and the owners have no reason to take an extra penny after this, whilst at the same time Fergie tells us that there is no value despite bargains being had left, right and centre it makes you wonder. Particularly since there is not one fan on this forum or in general that didn't see an obvious squad weakness at the start of the season.

All I want to know, even if (in my opinion) we are weak in certain departments, is this:-

Is it Fergie's judgement that has left us in this situation or is it the Glazers who have told him he can't go out and buy players that has left us in this situation?

There is no reason, as far as I can see, to believe that it is the latter and if all that leaves is the former well, I stopped questioning Fergie's judgement on these things many years ago.

 

[finneh]

All I want to know, even if (in my opinion) we are weak in certain departments, is this:-

Is it Fergie's judgement that has left us in this situation or is it the Glazers who have told him he can't go out and buy players that has left us in this situation?

There is no reason, as far as I can see, to believe that it is the latter and if all that leaves is the former well, I stopped questioning Fergie's judgement on these things many years ago.

I don't think there is any single certain reason to believe the latter. I do however believe there have been a lot of uncharacteristic dealings, bizarre comments and a seeming change in our transfer policy that suggests the latter could be true.

It could of course just be that after Berbatov, Fergie has been wary to spend a huge big again in a hurry (although after Veron he wasn't put off spending big for Ferdinand).

Yes, I think that was his point.

His comparison is even more retarded then; only an idiot would believe a like for like wages comparison when wages have double. Unless his point is that we have not moved drastically backwards in real terms.

 

[GCHQ]

Parliamentary Football Review:

Player

United stuff starts at 10:59am. Note David Gill lying at 11:02:58.

I'm going slightly off topic here but does anyone know who the blond female MP is on the committee?

Gill did a great job by the way. He dealt with them all very comfortably.

EDIT - The MP is Louise Bagshawe, member of parliament for Corby. Very nice.

 

[robertsoncrusoe]

How about Hernandez and Smalling, you complete and utter tool?

5 transfer windows and that's all the yankee dwarf could manage is a couple of back-up players?

 

[Devil_forever]

5 transfer windows and that's all the yankee dwarf could manage is a couple of back-up players?

How about:

VDS
Park
Evra
Foster
Vidic
Carrick
Nani
Anderson
Hargreaves
Tevez (for a £10m loan fee)
Berbatov (our record signing of all time)
Smalling
Hernandez
Bebe
Rafael
Fabio
PIG
Tosic
Valencia
Lindegaard

+ a few others.

You're a complete idiot.

 

[robertsoncrusoe]

How about:

VDS
Park
Evra
Foster
Vidic
Carrick
Nani
Anderson
Hargreaves
Tevez (for a £10m loan fee)
Berbatov (our record signing of all time)
Smalling
Hernandez
Bebe
Rafael
Fabio
PIG
Tosic
Valencia
Lindegaard

+ a few others.

You're a complete idiot.

Last 5 transfer windows- and how many on your list are currently your first eleven??

 

[Sir A1ex]

The MP is Louise Bagshawe, member of parliament for Corby. Very nice.

I genuinely worry about you sometimes...

 

[GCHQ]

I genuinely worry about you sometimes...

That's an extremely unflattering photo to be fair.

 

[Sir A1ex]

That's an extremely unflattering photo to be fair.

OK, here's another... but I'm warning you, I suspect you may not be able to control yourself when you see this one, it's like your wildest fantasy come true:

 

[GCHQ]

OK, here's another... but I'm warning you, I suspect you may not be able to control yourself when you see this one, it's like your wildest fantasy come true:

She's obviously lost some weight and had a makeover since those days. Check out the video. She's smoking.

And no, I'm not referring to Thatcher.

 

[B Cantona]

Thatcher's head is roughly twice as large as I remember it?

 

[TheMancRedDevil]

OK, here's another... but I'm warning you, I suspect you may not be able to control yourself when you see this one, it's like your wildest fantasy come true:

Who's that babe on the right then?

 

[Aaron]

Last 5 transfer windows- and how many on your list are currently your first eleven??

On rotation..about 11

 

[Feeky Magee]

Interestingly (or I thought so anyway), Steve Bartram, editor of the official website, has just recommended that people follow andersred on Twitter. Usually people from the club are very reluctant to even touch the topic of the Glazers. Can only imaging manutd.com will be turning green and gold in the near future.

 

[B Cantona]

Sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning...

 

[robertsoncrusoe]

On rotation..about 11

They are....?

 

[GCHQ]

Sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning...

Indeed.

 

[Aaron]

They are....?

From your list?

VDS
Evra
Vidic
Carrick
Nani
Anderson
Hernandez
Rafael
Hargreaves (when he was fit)
Tevez (when he was here)
Berbatov

 

[Aaron]

I thought Andersred had been largely discredited as a credible source on the information when he infamously decided to pin his entire credibility on the issue on issue of the supposed £90m cut (or whatever it was) the owners were to take out of the clubs accounts.

Gordon Brown is still a very clever man but after he stood up and announced he had 'abolished boom and bust' shortly before the boom bubble went bust, he kind of lost a lot of credibility.

 

[ciderman9000000]

anders went from hero to zero... I wonder when his next Panorama episode will be released?

 

[Mojo_pin]

some tweets making the rounds that the Qatari's have purchased MUFC.

 

[Crumpsall Red]

I thought Andersred had been largely discredited as a credible source on the information when he infamously decided to pin his entire credibility on the issue on issue of the supposed £90m cut (or whatever it was) the owners were to take out of the clubs accounts.

Gordon Brown is still a very clever man but after he stood up and announced he had 'abolished boom and bust' shortly before the boom bubble went bust, he kind of lost a lot of credibility.

credible...well done numpty.