ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances

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peterstorey said:
None of your business mate, you're just a consumer. Get back in your box and buy a replica shirt.
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Yes indeed how impertinent of me to think of asking such questions. I mean why should I and millions like me who have contributed to building up this club over many years to what it is today have the temerity to ask anything about its financial state of health, let alone wanting to know how an important part of the infamous debt has been mysteriously liquidated, debt which has been the subject of considerable concern amongst fans over the last number of years ? Of course this is absolutely no concern of ours at all and we, the people who provide the revenue for the club to operate, really have no right to know what's going on at all.

Oh yes and here's another question, whatever happened to the club's PR department or was that dispensed with in keeping with this regime's apparent policy of secrecy ?
 
Julian Denny said:
Yes indeed how impertinent of me to think of asking such questions. I mean why should I and millions like me who have contributed to building up this club over many years to what it is today have the temerity to ask anything about its financial state of health, let alone wanting to know how an important part of the infamous debt has been mysteriously liquidated, debt which has been the subject of considerable concern amongst fans over the last number of years ? Of course this is absolutely no concern of ours at all and we, the people who provide the revenue for the club to operate, really have no right to know what's going on at all.

Oh yes and here's another question, whatever happened to the club's PR department or was that dispensed with in keeping with this regime's apparent policy of secrecy ?
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The PIK's were never the club's debt. Do you think you should be entitled to the Glazer family's personal financial details? That's literally what you're demanding. You've no more right to know how they dealt with the PIK's than the Glazers have the right to know how you pay your bills. How is this angering you? Simply shouting "They should tell us because we want to know!" just won't get you anywhere, because it's still none of your damn business.
 
God, are people still going round these circles?

It's pretty simple really:

Of course they don't have to tell us...

..but, without knowing, none of us can draw conclusions about how good news it is.

You can't have it both ways.
 
I'll settle for us being in a better situation then we were 12 months ago, and we clearly are...
 
ciderman9000000 said:
The PIK's were never the club's debt. Do you think you should be entitled to the Glazer family's personal financial details? That's literally what you're demanding. You've no more right to know how they dealt with the PIK's than the Glazers have the right to know how you pay your bills. How is this angering you? Simply shouting "They should tell us because we want to know!" just won't get you anywhere, because it's still none of your damn business.
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Can everyone please absorb this, then we won't have to travel the same ground over and over again.
 
One question though, Cider. You are arguing that the Glazers are about to tap into new ways of commerzialisation. I'll agree with. BUT I think all this new silly money will be eaten up by the players wages who will rise to astronomical levels in the next ten or so years.
 
Pimpy the Magic Elf said:
One question though, Cider. You are arguing that the Glazers are about to tap into new ways of commerzialisation. I'll agree with. BUT I think all this new silly money will be eaten up by the players wages who will rise to astronomical levels in the next ten or so years.
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They're not about to, they are doing. The hope is that wage inflation will be severely curtailed by the FFP regs. A well managed club will never pay out more than it can afford in wages anyway; unless you've got an idiot/idiots in charge à last Portsmouth, player wages will always be in line with/relative to revenue; it's not an issue.
 
Red Defence said:
Can everyone please absorb this, then we won't have to travel the same ground over and over again.
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Ignoring the fact that the PIKs were secured against the shares in the club? It's not as black and white as Cider is trying to make out for whatever motive he has.

If the PIKs have been repaid either by Glazer money or external finance that is not secured against the club then it is vastly different picture, hence why the questions are being asked.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
The PIK's were never the club's debt. Do you think you should be entitled to the Glazer family's personal financial details? That's literally what you're demanding. You've no more right to know how they dealt with the PIK's than the Glazers have the right to know how you pay your bills. How is this angering you? Simply shouting "They should tell us because we want to know!" just won't get you anywhere, because it's still none of your damn business.
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Th Piks were owed by Red Football JV which owns United so it has everything to do with the club and cannot be dismissed as purely a Glazer personal financial issue. But whilst they don't have to tell us what's going on why should it be such a big secret - if it's a done deal ? Unless there is something sinister afoot. I think the fans are entitled to know what the situation is. What is the point of letting the speculation continue ?

For such a globally huge brand the PR is pitiful.
 
I'm sure that a lot of other clubs would love to be able to work the Glazer model. It makes sense that they aren't saying anything on how they manage to get things done, especially from a corporate intelligence perspective.
 
Julian Denny said:
Th Piks were owed by Red Football JV which owns United so it has everything to do with the club and cannot be dismissed as purely a Glazer personal financial issue. But whilst they don't have to tell us what's going on why should it be such a big secret - if it's a done deal ? Unless there is something sinister afoot. I think the fans are entitled to know what the situation is. What is the point of letting the speculation continue ?

For such a globally huge brand the PR is pitiful.
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Speculate all you like. Do you know of any other football clubs which give the fans full details of their executive level plans and financial tactics? Any other companies to their customers? No. United fans don't deserve special treatment or to be handled with kid gloves just because you've all wound yourselves up into a fuss about something you but barely understand. Speculate away, my friend, that's what the caf is for, but don't expect serious businessmen to kneel down at your beck and call and justify themselves against all your little conspiracy theories; PR my arse, don't be so naive.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Speculate all you like. Do you know of any other football clubs which give the fans full details of their executive level plans and financial tactics? Any other companies to their customers? No. United fans don't deserve special treatment or to be handled with kid gloves just because you've all wound yourselves up into a fuss about something you but barely understand. Speculate away, my friend, that's what the caf is for, but don't expect serious businessmen to kneel down at your beck and call and justify themselves against all your little conspiracy theories; PR my arse, don't be so naive.
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This post is very accurate and true.

It is indeed naive to expect businessmen to be genuinely interested in their customers.

The only thing I don't get is how you can read (or write) it and not feel repulsed at what our "football club" has become.
 
A1Dan said:
This post is very accurate and true.

It is indeed naive to expect businessmen to be genuinely interested in their customers.

The only thing I don't get is how you can read (or write) it and not feel repulsed at what our "football club" has become.
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Because I don't define the club by its owners; for me the club is the manager, the team, the stadium and the fans. And again, I'm not naive enough to expect such an amazing entertainment experience as football to exist in the modern world without someone profiting big from it - Nike, Sky, Lucozade, Wayne Rooney, the Glazers - and nor do I expect the fans, those of us who care about and are entertained by it the most, to be able to access such a guaranteed adrenaline rush on the cheap, especially when it comes to something as limited in availability as a matchday ticket. Welcome to the real world, A1Dan, either embrace it or perpetually whinge about it, but don't fool yourself into thinking your impotent cries of unfair treatment from the big scary world will do a damn feck bollocks thing to change it. Enjoy United, that's what it's there for, but accept that in a capitalist culture such as ours someone will always be making boatloads of money from your enjoyment.
 
Cider is right. If we we're upset about something then you should take a stance. Buy the glazers out, boycot games merchandise, go support another team, for anotha team (fc united) etc.

You have to accept tge modern day football. I personally don't like having the debt & money could be pumped into the club. But at the end of the day the be all & all is success on the pitch. If we are successful then everythings rosey, uf not then chages need to be made be it manager, players owners etc
 
Glazers will sell United

Knobs out lads...

MANCHESTER UNITED'S future has been thrown into doubt after a club bigwig said the Glazers WILL sell up.
Old Trafford non-executive director Mike Edelson revealed: "It's no secret that, at some time, the family will sell."

And that has now opened the door for the Qatar royal family, headed by Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, who have targeted United in a £1.5billion deal.

Edelson's comment is the first clear indicator the Glazers will listen to offers for United, which they have plunged into debt. Having bought the Premier League giants for £790million 5½ years ago, the Yanks now stand to DOUBLE their money.



GLAZER ... debtsSources in the City are convinced the Glazers are ready to sell after they paid off £252m of the £752m of debt they saddled the club with.

One top city source said: "The belief is that they have already brought in extra finance from a third party in a bid to set the club up for a sale."

A Middle East football finance expert, meanwhile, told SunSport that Qatar Holdings - the business arm of the country's royal family - have been hovering around United waiting to strike.

The source said: "They have made tentative moves before with little success but this time it looks like they could be going for it.

"Now they have landed the 2022 World Cup, the country wants to expand its influence in the game across the globe."

United board member Edelson has been a close confidant of the Glazers since they took over the club in 2005.

He made his shock revelation in a Q&A session at the Maccabi Sports Club in Prestwich, Manchester.

Qatar's royal family has an estimated £40bn of assets and, last week, became the first sponsor of Barcelona's team shirts in a £125m deal.
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The Glazer family WILL sell Manchester United | The Sun |Sport|Football
 
It would be nice to get rid of the debt and have serious backers when the transfer Muppetry starts.

Would love to knock the smirks off the blue nosed scum up the road that think they have one over on us as well.
 
Bloody hell, I kid you not, the same interview was used to further drive the point that the Glazers are here for the long run.

Will they or won't they? fecking hell.

All we want is our fans and club not seriously hurt financially. Blue tooth fairy can be the owner, no problem.
 
mjs020294 said:
It would be nice to get rid of the debt and have serious backers when the transfer Muppetry starts.

Would love to knock the smirks off the blue nosed scum up the road that think they have one over on us as well.
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Theoretically it would be great being debt free and also have significant funds for development but I'm not counting my chickens, this will probably go on for a while, I can't see it happening until maybe the end of season.
Are there no billionaires from Salford???
 
melon-knob-french-antique.jpg
 
Football | Barclays Premier League | Glazers ready to sell Man United? | ESPNSTAR.com

Glazers ready to sell Man United?

Christmas might have come a little early for Manchester United fans opposed to the current Glazer ownership.

The Sun quotes Old Trafford non-executive director Mike Edelson as saying that the Glazers will, at some point, sell the club.

Emotions still run high among many United supporters regarding the American ownership of the club which since their reign began has reportedly racked up debts of over £750 million (over £250 million is understood to have been paid off already). Concerned about the debt - a section of fans have been seen and heard protesting the ownership at Old Trafford.

The Sun claims that Edelson, in a Q&A session at the Maccabi Sports Club in Manchester, said: "It's no secret that, at some time, the family will sell."

As a result, the newspaper believes this has opened the door for the Qatar royal family, headed by Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, to buy United in a £1.5billion deal. This would mean that the Glazers stand to make more than double the £790million they paid for the club over five years ago.

"The belief is that they [Qatar royal family] have already brought in extra finance from a third party in a bid to set the club up for a sale," a source told the Sun.

Qatar has suddenly shot to prominence in the footballing world following their successful bid to host the 2022 FIFA Wolrd Cup. And earlier in the month, La Liga giants Barcelona made history by accepting a €150m deal with Qatar's Middle Eastern foundation.

Barcelona have never had a shirt sponsor in their club's history.

If the Glazers do decide to sell United in the next few years, there are sure to be a line of suitors waiting in the wings. The club's enormous debt and the impending retirement of their great manager Sir Alex Ferguson may point to uncertain times, but those concerns appear to be outweighed by the global commercial value the club still enjoys.

United have even been a takeover target for Burma's military junta, according to whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.

It explained how military commander-in-chief Than Shwe was advised by his grandson before January 2009 to look into the possibility of buying the Barclays Premier League giants for one billion US dollars (£634million).
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Not going to happen unless the Qatari's are really despearate to boost their profile for the WC and come in with a monster bid.

Its shocking how different papers use the same quote to paint two radically different pictures. They are such wankers at The Sun.
 
"It's no secret that, at some time, the family will sell."

:lol:

What a revelation....
 
I'm going to merge in Johnno, otherwise you will just get the same comment over and over again.
 
red thru&thru said:
Cider is right. If we we're upset about something then you should take a stance.
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Er, I don't think that was his point. I'm not sure he's that big a fan of those who have "taken a stance" against the Glazers.

red thru&thru said:
Buy the glazers out
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Damn, why didnt I think of that earlier?!

Back in 5, just checking my online banking to ensure I have the funds.

red thru&thru said:
boycot games merchandise
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A heavily debated point, but again, I'm not sure you're quite as in tune with Ciders opinions as you think there...


red thru&thru said:
go support another team
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Right, of course, didn't think of that. Should I go for Liverpoll, for their glorious history, or City, who have lots of money?


red thru&thru said:
for anotha team (fc united) etc.
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See "boycot games merchandise"
 
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