ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've just seen all this Epson bullshit- absofeckinglutely mental !

A good lesson in how things like wiki/twitter/forums etc can never be trusted for anything.
 
Rood said:
I've just seen all this Epson bullshit- absofeckinglutely mental !

A good lesson in how things like wiki/twitter/forums etc can never be trusted for anything.
Click to expand...

Good point.

Wait, you wrote it on a forum, so it can't be trusted! Oh crap, now I'm confused!
 
Oh well, it's just water under the cartridge.
Go on then, try and find a better rhyme for it...
 
JamesMawFFT

I've heard a rumour Manchester United are about to be taken over by Bird's Custard. Taken from a Latvian press release. More to follow...
10 minutes ago via web
Retweeted by DTguardian and 9 others
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Rood said:
I've just seen all this Epson bullshit- absofeckinglutely mental !

A good lesson in how things like wiki/twitter/forums etc can never be trusted for anything.
Click to expand...

Except it didn't orignate on Twitter/Wiki/forums etc but a reputable Austrian News site. Obviously got their wires mixed.
 
Rood said:
I've just seen all this Epson bullshit- absofeckinglutely mental !

A good lesson in how things like wiki/twitter/forums etc can never be trusted for anything.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I take every one of your posts as absolute horse shit.
 
gambit28 said:
Except it didn't orignate on Twitter/Wiki/forums etc but a reputable Austrian News site. Obviously got their wires mixed.
Click to expand...

Yes but no one really took much notice of that article - it was only when it started appearing all over twitter and other forums that people started to think there might be some truth to the rumour. It is the 'there is no smoke, without fire' type of thinking.


Ole's_toe_poke said:
Which is exactly why I take every one of your posts as absolute horse shit.
Click to expand...

I'm the exception that proves the rule :)
 
Even if it was paid off with fresh debt, so what?

It would still indicate that the interest rates on the debt are being lowered over time through refinancing which is good business.

Despite the credit crunch and the bad economy, the Glazers' business strategy seems to be working quite well.

I look forward to watching this thread continue to develop over the next few years. I predicted back in the beginning that the Glazers would be proven right in time.

An unpopular stance, I know, but to quote Aristotle, "a greater friend to truth."
 
No one with half a brain even contemplated it being true. Many sports journalists did however.
 
There are yet some journo's tweeting about it. One guy even said that "Epson" did not deny it :lol:
 
Ferguson said:
Even if it was paid off with fresh debt, so what?

It would still indicate that the interest rates on the debt are being lowered over time through refinancing which is good business.

Despite the credit crunch and the bad economy, the Glazers' business strategy seems to be working quite well.

I look forward to watching this thread continue to develop over the next few years. I predicted back in the beginning that the Glazers would be proven right in time.

An unpopular stance, I know, but to quote Aristotle, "a greater friend to truth."
Click to expand...

Spot on.

There will be a lot of tails between legs skulking back over the next few years as the Glazer model proves to be perfectly viable; it's the increasingly desperate stance of those that will not give up on their outdated prejudices that will bring embarrassment upon the fanbase.

Oh well. Let them be miserable in their ignorance.

United will never die. I've no doubt that the club can survive a few cringeworthy zealots trying to put a downer on each and every one of our achievements.

feck 'em.

We've got a football team to support, let's just ignore the bullshitters and continue doing just that.
 
I notice 'certain individuals who shall not be named' have very notably avoided this thread since the PIK news broke a few days ago, their silence speaks volumes, one individual especially, tails between legs is a very apt description.

You certainly find out who the people who really care for the club are and those who just want to be proven right at its expense in such discussions.
 
Allforone said:
I notice 'certain individuals who shall not be named' have very notably avoided this thread since the PIK news broke a few days ago, their silence speaks volumes, one individual especially, tails between legs is a very apt description.

You certainly find out who the people who really care for the club are and those who just want to be proven right at its expense in such discussions.
Click to expand...

For some of us, it was never about point-scoring. We just wanted to get the truth of our situation.

Behind all the doom and gloom, it was a preposterous suggestion that the Glazers would come in and deliberately harm the club.

I've been accused of being a Glazer-lover in the past and perhaps this is true because my greatest fear now is that they sell the club to a bunch of gimps.
 
TheMancRedDevil said:
For some of us, it was never about point-scoring. We just wanted to get the truth of our situation.

Behind all the doom and gloom, it was a preposterous suggestion that the Glazers would come in and deliberately harm the club.
Click to expand...

Where would we all be without your modesty, humility and care of the club. Nowhere presumably.
 
Allforone said:
I notice 'certain individuals who shall not be named' have very notably avoided this thread since the PIK news broke a few days ago, their silence speaks volumes, one individual especially, tails between legs is a very apt description.

You certainly find out who the people who really care for the club are and those who just want to be proven right at its expense in such discussions.
Click to expand...
I miss the miserable old feck. He makes for good sport. I'm supposed to be meeting him sometime too.
 
TheMancRedDevil said:
I've been accused of being a Glazer-lover in the past and perhaps this is true because my greatest fear now is that they sell the club to a bunch of gimps.
Click to expand...

Me too. I've never been a fan of the Glazers, I've just defended them against morbidly unreasonable critics, but with events in recent weeks (Rooney saga, SAF's repeated high praise, excellent growth, PIK's paid off, no dividends taken etc.) I think that that's changed; I now consider them to be pretty decent football club owners; I'm very pleased about that. The greatest, and perhaps only, threat to the club now is that MUST's relentless hate-campaign somehow throws enough spanners in the works to force the owners into looking for a buyer, because who knows who we'd end up with as owners if that were to happen? There are loads of bad candidates out there that might fancy running a football club, yet MUST's short-sighted and fundamentally flawed strategy is to expose us to these potentially disasterous eventualities.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Me too. I've never been a fan of the Glazers, I've just defended them against morbidly unreasonable critics, but with events in recent weeks (Rooney saga, SAF's repeated high praise, excellent growth, PIK's paid off, no dividends taken etc.) I think that that's changed; I now consider them to be pretty decent football club owners; I'm very pleased about that. The greatest, and perhaps only, threat to the club now is that MUST's relentless hate-campaign somehow throws enough spanners in the works to force the owners into looking for a buyer, because who knows who we'd end up with as owners if that were to happen? There are loads of bad candidates out there that might fancy running a football club, yet MUST's short-sighted and fundamentally flawed strategy is to expose us to these potentially disasterous eventualities.
Click to expand...


Personally, I have come to this conclusion:

1. The Glazers are actually very good for Manchester United. The debt is not ideal but it is being handled well. There are plenty of funds availible if Sir Alex needs them and all he has to do is ask if he identfys a player he wants and they will give him what he needs. The Club's profits are growing every season.

2. The Glazers are not good for the fans. Prices are going up and the ACS causes alot of stress and financial worry for some fans who don't feel they should be forced to buy a ticket for a game they might not be able to go to or might not want to go to.

3. Points 1 and 2 are contradictory. The Glazers being good for the club but not for the fans is oxymoronic. The Fans are a part of the club and it should be a happy trinity of Owner's - Management and Players - Fans.

If the team is doing well and the fans are happy but the finances are not then the club is not in good shape. If the Finances and Team are doing well but the fans are suffering, like is the case now, then the club is not in good shape.

It shouldn't be a matter of The Club and it's fans being seperate parties it should be The Club and it's fans, United.

4. This is where MUST are going wrong. I could understand their original fears about the Glazers, they were an unknown entitity seemingly loading a load of debt on a debt free club for their own personal gain. The fans that MUST represent were scared that they could lead our club "down the road to ruin".

They spent the last 5 years with blinkers on, looking to force the Glazers out.

The problem is, we have found out more and more about the situation and while fans views have started to adapt, MUST is still stuck in 2005 trying to force out a set of owners who are actually running a very good operation.

What I believe MUST should be doing now, is using tact, form a relationship with the club and try to make the fans situation alot easier. Heavy handed tactics will get nowhere with the Glazers, they're quite happy to take the money put into their pocket with by the fan's left hand while their right hand puts up a fight.

I really think that if MUST are going to continue to ignore the real issue's just so they can keep on trying to get Drasdo's mysterious business associates in charge of our club, then there needs to be another organisation that is actually trying to look after our interest's and actually speak for us fans.
 
I enjoyed this snippet from Martin Samuel in the Daily Mail:

Questions were asked this week after the Glazers repaid their controversial PIK loans (without using club money, the gloomy forecast of various experts and opportunists).

Some people are never satisfied, though. 'Where did they find £220million? At what interest rate did they borrow it? When does it need to be paid back?' asked a newspaper that was losing £100,000 a day last year, but somehow kept publishing.

The answer is simple: mind your own business. Since when was a say in the interest arrangements of a private company included in the price of a season ticket?

Turn up, don't turn up. Cheer the team, boo the team. But this level of interference was never part of the bargain, no more than the Glazers would have the right to ask any Manchester United supporter how he afforded the price of admission.
Click to expand...

MARTIN SAMUEL: Ancelotti not calling the shots at Chelsea - it's Abramovich holding the smoking gun | Mail Online

His whole column is very good actually. Worth a read.
 
They will never engage in conversations with MUST. How many of us can float an idea to form a group and try to engage in conversation with Glazers? I mean NESV did with RAWK and we are definitely more reasonable lot than them
 
To be fair why should the Glazers communicate or answer any questions put forward by MUST an organisation that has spread disgraceful vitriol and plain and simple lies for 5 years regarding their ownership, now all of a sudden they demand the glazers tell them whats happening and where moneys coming from after previously being more than happy to make up their own minds and spew agenda driven propaganda to every media outlet on the planet, i agree with everything Martin Samuel said in that article on the previous page, none of their business.

If someone who'd accused me and my family business of lying when quite clearly we hadn't been the last thing id want to do is entertain a friendly question an answer session with said people, id tell them to get fecked myself.

I like the fact the Glazers dont run to the tabloids every week, i dont want Uniteds owners becoming some rent a quote news source just to satisfy a linchmob like MUST, they run the club the way youd expect ie behind closed doors, they don't interfere with the manager unlike certain other owners and they do their business without any fuss, they're very professional and so far have done everything they said they would.

Sir Alex has backed them and thats good enough for me, he after all works with them and knows a lot more about them than anyone on here.
 
Allforone said:
To be fair why should the Glazers communicate or answer any questions put forward by MUST an organisation that has spread disgraceful vitriol and plain and simple lies for 5 years regarding their ownership, now all of a sudden they demand the glazers tell them whats happening and where moneys coming from after previously being more than happy to make up their own minds and spew agenda driven propaganda to every media outlet on the planet, i agree with everything Martin Samuel said in that article on the previous page, none of their business.

If someone who'd accused me and my family business of lying when quite clearly we hadn't been the last thing id want to do is entertain a friendly question an answer session with said people, id tell them to get fecked myself.

I like the fact the Glazers dont run to the tabloids every week, i dont want Uniteds owners becoming some rent a quote news source just to satisfy a linchmob like MUST, they run the club the way youd expect ie behind closed doors, they don't interfere with the manager unlike certain other owners and they do their business without any fuss, they're very professional and so far have done everything they said they would.

Sir Alex has backed them and thats good enough for me, he after all works with them and knows a lot more about them than anyone on here.
Click to expand...

Well we don't have to spread vitriol, just ask very normal questions and assurances over basic issues. It'll be daft to say we can't ask questions about Man Utd as Glazers are the owners. It's in their best interests to keep their customers (fans in this regard) happy.

We are not trying to supplant them, we are trying to get into meaningful dialogue with them with our concerns.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Well we don't have to spread vitriol, just ask very normal questions and assurances over basic issues. It'll be daft to say we can't ask questions about Man Utd as Glazers are the owners. It's in their best interests to keep their customers (fans in this regard) happy.

We are not trying to supplant them, we are trying to get into meaningful dialogue with them with our concerns.
Click to expand...

Thats fair enough but the problem is MUST have alienated the Glazers with their continued propaganda campaign, like i said if you owned a company/football club whatever and a section of its followers spewed ridiculous lies and bile about you and your family for 5 years having made up their own minds on anything and everything your going to do would you then be willing to happily sit down with these same people and answer their questions, after you've just shown them up to be idiots and the actual liars of the piece?

I personally wouldn't id do my talking through doing the job i said id do from the off, had MUST taken this stance or indeed given the Glazers a chance to show their intentions on certain issues like the PIK notes maybe from the start we wouldn't find ourselves in this situation, as it is 5 years of agenda spin has caught up with them and now we are where we are.
 
All the more reason why we need an alternative to MUST, but who's going to form them? We can. We spend at least 10 hours a week arguing about it.

Put that 10 hour into doing something constructive.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Well we don't have to spread vitriol, just ask very normal questions and assurances over basic issues. It'll be daft to say we can't ask questions about Man Utd as Glazers are the owners. It's in their best interests to keep their customers (fans in this regard) happy.

We are not trying to supplant them, we are trying to get into meaningful dialogue with them with our concerns.
Click to expand...

Bollocks.
 
I think you raise a very good point fishfingers15. You can't blame the Glazers for not talkin to or acknowledging MUST but I'd like to see something constructive. They own the place and they're entitled to do as they choose but the fans are very big stakeholders and currently for one reason or another have very little recourse to get their points across in a constructive manner.
 
I can see it now: must and the glazers sitting around a table, the glazers giving positive answers about their running of the club and drasdo and co saying "fair enough. We're satisfied you are good for united and will stop making shit up about you. We're very sorry for our hate campaign and hope we can all get along in the future".
 
Personally I don't think it yet the right time to be setting up any new supporters groups. I estimate it'll be a couple of seasons or so before MUST's influence drops to nil; we on here know that they're a joke, but the press are yet to fully acknowledge the reality of the situation and so for the wider fanbase it will likely take a lot longer to cast off those outdated prejudices and preconceptions. It'll come though, and in a few seasons time MUST will be little more than a somewhat embarrassing memory; I think only then will it be fruitful to try and engage the owners in a civilised manner, because until then anyone attempting such will likely only be met with suspicion and a continuation of the seige mentality taken up by the Glazers to combat their over-zealous aggressors. In the meantime we should simply carry on what we've been doing and let the caf be our outlet; it seems to have worked thus far; the poisonous, blinding hatred has been isolated to a crackpot minority and, on the whole, people here seem much more open to reasoned discussion, understanding and analysis than has ever been the case in the past. This is a healthy, progressive midset that will need to be encouraged further if we hope to ever reach a point at which the fans and the owners can work together to ensure the club's future is a bright and successful one for all parties: fans, players, managerial staff and owners. The hate-campaign must come to an end, only then can we begin to repair the damage its caused. If you have not done so already, cancel your MUST membership.
 
What do you expect MUST to sit around the table and talk to the Glazers about? Their entire point of being is to gain fan ownership of the club. There's only so many times you can go back and forth with "Sell the club to the fans" "No" "Please?" "No" etc...
 
lynchie said:
What do you expect MUST to sit around the table and talk to the Glazers about? Their entire point of being is to gain fan ownership of the club. There's only so many times you can go back and forth with "Sell the club to the fans" "No" "Please?" "No" etc...
Click to expand...

Nobody expects MUST to sit around a table and talk with the Glazers. Nor can MUST ever expect the Glazers to sit around a table and talk with them. I expect MUST to go be quiet over in a corner somewhere whilst others do the talking. MUST played the game and lost; they can do the honourable thing now and back-down, or they can become increasingly ridiculous and desperate and fade out that way; which option they choose is up to them (my guess would be they'll go for option B). Either way though, their time has most certainly passed.
 
I agree, although I'd like to see groups like IMUSA, who are supposed to concentrate on fans rights, come to the fore now. The issues regarding the ACS and the rights of the fans should be at the top of the agenda, not some ideological dream of a group of fans owning a billion pound football club.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.