Basically cider, there are a bunch of people who don't care how much is coming into the club. That is irrelevant to them. They concentrate solely on what is going out.
I doubt that will ever change.
I doubt that will ever change.
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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Similarly you've got to be concerned with people who manage a business based on interest only in revenue.
There are a lot of exceptional items in running United at the moment and that's helped the Glazers whilst also fuelling MUST's campagin. Bizarre, yes, but the MUST guys can spin how they want and so can the pro-Glazers.
The bigger concerns are the disappearing waiting list and the anomosity caused. People won't get behind the Glazers because of the debt, the ACS and the ticket prices as well as the lack of big names signed since the departures of Tevez and Ronaldo.
Reading that article actually raised an interesting point.
The goodwill amortisation is the amount that they paid more than they should have done as fair value for the club. 15 years at £35m = £525m. The article states that they paid, in total, £790m for the club. How does the fair value of the club get set at £265m? Who do they have to justify the figure to?
The other interesting thing - how the f*ck do Bayern generate so much commercial revenue? £46m more than us!
I dunno really. I know there was always an element of anti-Glazer out there but did you honestly see a great deal of it during the period 2006-2009 (and most of the things you mention were going on during that period)?
Personally, I think MUST's campaign is starting to run out of steam now. People are waking up to the fact that they mostly talk a lot of shit. No one likes someone who just sits there moaning all the time, stinking the place out. It's ok for a while to highlight problems but when it's constant negativity about everything, it's just boring - especially when the reality isn't backing up half of what they are saying.
I think there will be big spending in the Summer no matter how things go on the pitch this season. A good showing though (at least one trophy) and a few big name signings in the Summer and I think we'll be back to where we were before this year.
Some of the more passionate anti-Glazers will maintain their stance but the in-betweeners will just get back to concentrating on the football, I think.
I just think something really drastic will have to happen (such as us "doing a Liverpool" - which is highly unlikely) for us to see protests as intense as those we saw during the peak of the G&G campaign again.
£66m!
The period 2006-2009, while seeing a great period in our success, saw a lot of fans priced out. My cousin finally gave up his ticket having followed United all over Europe for United for as long as I can remember. No kids to support but simply couldn't justify paying over a total of a grand on home tickets alone. Plenty more similar stories in the same period.
It's a usually disappointing completely anti-MUST view that you've come out with. They don't talk shit, they just over-egg the negative side,just like you and others blindly dismiss the negatives and focus on EBITDA and revenue.
There will be a big spend because there has to be or Joel will have gone back on his word to Rooney and there will be mass boycotts.
Sorry, yes, misread the row. feck, even worse!
So, all these "priced out fans" could suddenly afford to come back for the back end of last season? You know the point I am making and you're completely ignoring it.
I disagree. MUST do talk shit. Often. Yes, I know I probably talk a lot of shit too but this, to me, is just two blokes putting the world to rights over a pint in the pub. MUST, on the other hand, have their shit put in newspaper articles and appear on the telly talking shit and then mobilise their troops on the back of their shit.
I don't think that I dismiss the negative side, I know all about the negative side but, obviously, when you're debating something, you debate your side of the argument. I don't just make shit up though. Well... not deliberately, anyway.
You seem to be assuming that at the end of this season, there was going to be no spend and the Rooney situation has forced the Glazer's hand. I'm going to have to call bullshit on that one, I'm afraid. What will happen next summer is the same as has happened every summer at United. Fergie will take stock of the situation and bring in the necessary rectruitments.
To me, the assurance Rooney wanted was that we CAN compete for the best players and remain competitive. That doesn't mean the Glazers have to spunk £100m on players next summer in order to remain "true to their word". Who is bought and how much is spent will be entirely down to Fergie.
All me, you and Rooney need to know is that the money is there and that the manager can get whoever he wants to get without (unreasonable) restriction.
What did Joel say to Rooney then?
Look, you fat scouse cnut you've got us over a barrel so we'll pony up now but we'll flog you to City for £80M in the summer.
Rooney shouldn't have signed in that case. I mean if I were him, a greedy selfish cnut, I would've ran down my contract....and moved on a free.
That was the bottomline, his actual words were: 'Wayne you are the spearhead of a new era of United success lavishly funded by us and we'll buy the best players in the world to complement your unique talents'.
Nah...they might well flog him, but they won't flog him to City. It'll be Real or nowhere.
If what I was told today about how the next TV deal is going to be structured turns out to be correct then the potential media earnings of the top 5-6 clubs in the PL will increase enormously and because of their vast worldworldwide fan base United would benifit the most.
Ignoring it? You've completely ignoring my point about your lot not being interesting in costs and only revenue but conveniently moved on.
They've made a couple of errors, but they've rightly flagged up the ACS, ticket prices andthe debt situation. Together with the Glazer ownership itself costing nearly half a billion quid, they've flagged up a fair bit that needs raising. What they don't seem to understand is that there are two sides and they aren't simply polar.
People have seen Ronaldo and Tevez leave and no big names arrive. Combine that with the ticket price rises that have taken place since their arrival and you can appreciate their concerns. Rightly they're playing on the lowest common denominator - ticket prices have gone up and the quality has gone down. They don't give a shit about the off field situation unless it's impacting on the team. MUST are claiming that the Glazer ownership is impacting on the situation. It's not shit, it's a valid argument.
You dismiss with arrogance.
Rooney to me wanted the assurance that we WILL compete for the best players. What good is there being no change in personnel and a bigger bank balance?
URR, i've always factored costs into my calculations.
What you are saying about losing Ronaldo and Tevez and not replacing them with 'big names' is just transfer muppetry. I can understand the want for big names at the club, but i cannot understand the sulk some people get in if the names they want do not arrive.
During the Glazer ownership a huge amount has been spent on players, nobody batted an eyelid until we sold Ronaldo because squad investment was very good.
Listen to what SAF tells you. He's never had any problems acquiring money for players.
The problem with a lot of people is that they want us to buy just anybody to prove that there's money there, but SAF doesn't work that way. He wanted David Villa but he wasn't going to leave Spain; the money was there - is there - in the bank should we have been able to sign him, but we couldn't; no fault of the Glazers that.
If you're not happy with our transfer dealings then complain about SAF, not the Glazers. Me, i choose to trust the manager, as i always have done; has he won thirty trophies, or what?
Listen to what SAF says and trust him, he deserves that. If he's lying to us all then we'll soon find out, but until then can you not just trust what he says and take it at face value? At the end of the day, he is the master team-builder, not us.
What you are saying about losing Ronaldo and Tevez and not replacing them with 'big names' is just transfer muppetry. I can understand the want for big names at the club, but i cannot understand the sulk some people get in if the names they want do not arrive.
During the Glazer ownership a huge amount has been spent on players, nobody batted an eyelid until we sold Ronaldo because squad investment was very good.
Listen to what SAF tells you. He's never had any problems acquiring money for players.
The problem with a lot of people is that they want us to buy just anybody to prove that there's money there, but SAF doesn't work that way. He wanted David Villa but he wasn't going to leave Spain; the money was there - is there - in the bank should we have been able to sign him, but we couldn't; no fault of the Glazers that.
If you're not happy with our transfer dealings then complain about SAF, not the Glazers. Me, i choose to trust the manager, as i always have done; has he won thirty trophies, or what?
Listen to what SAF says and trust him, he deserves that. If he's lying to us all then we'll soon find out, but until then can you not just trust what he says and take it at face value? At the end of the day, he is the master team-builder, not us.
I've heard nothing about this and I can't see the smaller clubs agreeing to such a deal. Have you got a link? Anyone else know anything about this?
You think that Rooney would have just taken their word for it and signed on the dotted line? The same Rooney who was adamant that he wouldn't. Maybe there are clauses written in his contract, whereby if United don't spend X amount, then there's a penalty they have to pay. Is that even allowed?
It's pretty obvious to me that the Rooney contract situation was about positioning for more money and had feck all to do with 'ambition'.
I ignored that because it's old ground now - discussed to death. The point I was making was that MUST's campaign is running out of steam. A decent season ahead and a couple of big signings in the summer and things will get back to something resembling normality.
I know what you're saying about the people who have found that they can no longer afford to go and their disappointment about this isn't likely to be massively improved whatever happens but I genuinely don't believe that the number of people who have been "priced out" is as great as some would have us believe. I think it was 26 at last count. (ok, I just made that bit up)
It would be an even stronger argument if it was based on more than one Summer's transfer activity and one season where we did slightly worse than two fantastic seasons previous to it.
At this moment in time, we can only assume that Fergie chose not to spend the money because it is still there. Why would the Glazers tell Fergie he can't buy any players and then just leave the money in the bank for over a year?
Indeed. You tell me.
No, Fergie's in charge. We're not allowed. Just sit there, shut and pay your money. Cider says so. Seriously, though, assuming Wayne was genuine in voicing his concerns and that was the reason for him being reluctant to sign, what would you expect to have been said to change his mind?
So you do talk shit at times. You have no idea how many have been priced out and that includes the casual Carling Cup/CL group stage goers.
Two summers (three windows). I'm a bit more positive that others, was pleased we'd signed Hernandez but I remain concerned about the overall quality of midfielders. While all could be described as good, it's concerning that the best two have often been Giggs and Scholes this season. Presumably Wayne feels similar but we'll never know for sure.
But we've got Hernandez, Valencia and Smalling (with Obertan and Bebe for the future) for what could have been £130m net spend. Surely you can see what people are getting at when they look at it from that point of view? We even got the Ronaldo money all up front so cash flow isn't exactly an argument against it.
Huh?
There's £164m in the bank. Why hasn't Fergie spent any of it?
I don't want to put words in your mouth, that's why I left the question open for you to answer.
What's the point in stockpiling a load of cash and no change in personnel? What do YOU think it is?
SAF's waiting for the right personnel at the right time.
Everyone was quick to have a go at Rooney for disrespecting the manager and the club, and rightly so, and yet many on here do the same day in day out.
Personally, i respect SAF. When he says that he'll buy when the time is right and that there are no restrictions on him then i believe him. He deserves that trust.
feck what Rooney thinks. feck what MUST think. SAF is the man we should be listening to, not Rooney, not Duncan Drasdo; if you think SAF's a liar then you're no better than either of the above when it comes to disrespecting United.
You mean you made that up about Joel then?
I think you are way over doing how much effect these regulations are going to have on Premier League teams - I cant see the type of issues you describe coming to pass. Teams will adapt, the rules will change anyway and like I said, I believe they will be good for football in general. Time will tell if your fears are founded.
If these regs were in place 5 years ago then Roman would never have bought Chelsea in the first place.
If anyone thinks that any new regulations will affect Real Madrid or AC Milan they are naive to the point of rank stupidity.
To be fair, I think there should be a special rule for AC Milan to allow them to be good again.
Well they definitely wont affect Manchester United and that is all that matters to me !
Amen.
I know not a lot of people around here like Martin Samuel but here's an article that sort of backs up something I was saying earlier this week about the Glazers vs PLC.
Put aside your personal distaste for what you believe Rooney might have done this week and read the first few paragraphs of this.
What benefits do the Glazers bring?
Put aside your personal distaste for what you believe Rooney might have done this week and read the first few paragraphs of this.
What benefits do the Glazers bring?
I don't know. We know what it could be used for:
Stadium improvements - south stand. Unlikely, due to the current fall in demand for tickets, but still a possibility
Debt repayment - obviously, not all of it, as doom mongers would suggest, but it's not clear when the carve-out can be taken for me, so potentially £95m could go "straight upstairs".
Squad enhancements - essential, on so many levels. Crowd appeasement obviously one of them, P.R. another, essentailly proving the doubters wrong.
Working capital - general expenditure
Likely a combination, with the biggest unknowns being the carve-out and dividend taking. We know there needs to be money spent in the transfer market if we're going to challenge for the title. The question is how much will be needed to acquire players on Sir Alex's list. When you consider that players will have to make room in the squad system, total spend could be a fair bit higher than net spend. Time to start the rumour mill on inbound and outbound!
Without a doubt, quick decision making, TMRD.
Were it not for their timely intervention, we might have had a right ugly mess P.R. wise. Thanks to the new streamlined decision-making facility, the Glazers could act preemptively and nip the dispute in the bud. The problem sorted soon as it emerged. Otherwise, it might have lingered and festered over a number of months without resolution, get leaked to the press, became a farce....
We might have had headlines like:
'Angry mob threatens Wayne Rooney at his home'
'Rooney V United Saga is player power gone mad'
'Wayne Rooney's disrespect to fans and team-mates will not be forgotten'
'Rooney: United lack ambition'
And so forth.
But thankfully all that was avoided. Yep, the Glazers deserve credit.
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Fair enough Redjazz.
But perhaps we could have seen the worst headline of them all... "Rooney joins City"?
As you say, the SS development isn't going to happen any time soon - as you point out, demand has peaked as it is so there's no point adding another 8,000 seats or whatever that will rarely get filled at current price levels.
Working capital? Hmm... doubt it, this is surplus cash. The RCF can cover cashflow dips... we don't need £160m in the bank every season to see us through the leaner months.
The carve-out and dividend remains the mystery but even if they do take the £95m, that still seems to leave something in the region of £70m and I can think of no reason whatsoever why at least £50m of that couldn't be spent on players.
The point is, you (and many, many others - including myself, to be fair) said things like this:-
So, we might all believe that there's a need for squad investment, the money is there and Fergie hasn't touched it. Which, suggests to me that Fergie didn't feel the time was right over the last couple of summers (this money has been there since Ronaldo left). Whatever his reason for this was, it wasn't a lack of money and it is virtually impossible to argue that it was. Seems to me that some of us have lost a bit of faith in Fergie's judgement.
Most of us here have not lost faith in Fergie's judgement. Many felt his hands were tied. It took a Rooneygate and the subsequent negative reactions all over, for the owners to give in.
How have the owners given in?
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