Alex Telles - SIGNED for United

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In a weird way, the lower the fee is talked down to, the more you feel this is a totally pointless signing.

Surely you buy players with the potential to oust current starters, or young players with potential. Not mid level squaddies. We have loads of those already.
 
mazhar13 said:
If you add extra bodies in any bit of communication, that communication tends to get delayed. I've seen this in corporate work environments on many occasions. Each body in the middle will have their own view of the matter and provide their own feedback accordingly. The little bits of constant back-and-forth in between different people add up the time it takes for a message to get through at the end of the day.

Example (with a bunch of hypotheticals based on my experiences in a corporate work environment; get ready for a block of text):
  • United give their demands to our third-party representative via, say, email (15 million Euros).
  • The email is read after, say, one hour (because they're busy with other matters as well).
  • Our rep then sends an email back stating that Porto may not accept that and that they'd accept something like 25 million Euros. That email is read by United after some time (because United are also busy with work and not just twiddling their thumbs). Whoever's negotiating this on our end comes up with a counter-proposal that is then sent up to Judge, who then provides his feedback. After some more work, the proposal is sent to Woodward. After some more work, the proposal is sent to Joel Glazer. After some time (and updates via feedback), Joel approves on a new proposal.
  • We then send this new proposal over to our rep. Rinse and repeat this until we come up with something that the rep's happy enough with.
  • Our rep then sends this bit of info over to Porto's rep via email. Porto's rep read the email after some time as well.
  • Porto's rep comes back and then provides their feedback. We go back into the same communication loop highlighted previously. Rinse and repeat until Porto's rep is happy with something.
  • Porto's rep then sends this to the club. The club provides their feedback, and the info is eventually passed all the way back to United. Rinse and repeat until we come up with a deal that Porto are happy with.
  • We finally submit a formal offer to Porto, which they'd accept once they see said offer.

If you want a footballing example of this, see the Koulibaly transfer saga. Napoli and City aren't directly dealing with each other; both clubs are going through Koulibaly's agent, and that's slowing down the talks.

Contrast this to a situation without intermediaries. United send an offer directly to Porto. Porto acknowledge the offer. Porto then goes through the deal on their end and provides feedback to United. United then offer a counter-proposal (after some internal assessments). Rinse and repeat until Porto are happy with something that we offer.

Why does going to agents take longer? Agents themselves have some idea of what the other party could accept, and we'd need to come to an agreement with them before something gets back to the club. If we negotiate directly with the club, however, we'd get instant feedback of what they'd want instead of what agents think they'd want. Fewer bodies => more direct and transparent communication => fewer delays

Hopefully that explains it. If not, then let me know what's contentious for you.
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Or:

Umberto the Porto rep rings Clifford the United rep

Umbero: Hi Cliffy, how's it hanging mate, d'ya remember 24 months ago you inquired about the availability of Telles?
Clifford: I do mate, if I remember correctly you said £60m and he's yours, and I started laughing, in fact I couldn't stop
Umberto: Yeah sorry about hanging up, the line wasn't great and ..... Anyhow he's available for £30m now
Clifford: Nah not interested mate we've moved on to other targets and at least Luke Shaw is trying bless him
Umberto: But i've said you can have him for £25m, payable over 5 windows
Clifford: Honest mate we're not interested
Umberto: It's not even a gamble at £18m, he'd be a star in England
Clifford: Gotta go mate me Mams on the other line, stay safe, talk soon.
 
rotherham_red said:
If we got him and Sancho to add to VdB, I'd be much more optimistic about his arrival but a backup LB and a decent midfielder is not going to do much of anything for us unfortunately.
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So, basically you're saying you'll only be optimistic if we sign Sancho?
 
You pay what we want, we won't pay what you want. Simple.

I think I could be just as useless a negotiator as we have at the club.
 
Fitchett said:
Exactly! Especially when we are reported to be asking more for the guys we are trying to offload. Ffs!
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Might be due to the fact that squad depth will be more important than ever this season when we're playing at least twice a week for the next 8+ months
 
Rolaholic said:
Might be due to the fact that squad depth will be more important than ever this season when we're playing at least twice a week for the next 8+ months
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We have no squad depth. Ole only like are starting 11 and maybe 3 others and he is correct in that assessment.
 
laughtersassassin said:
We have no squad depth. Ole only like are starting 11 and maybe 3 others and he is correct in that assessment.
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Exactly why we should be looking to be bringing in new players before the end of the window especially at positions of need like LB.

It'll be quite the long season if we continue with the same depth or lacketherof that we had last year when we scraped by
 
I don`t get this, €20m for Telles is a good deal, even in these times?
Have we allocated all our money to the Sancho deal and there is simply no money left?
 
Sandikan said:
In a weird way, the lower the fee is talked down to, the more you feel this is a totally pointless signing.

Surely you buy players with the potential to oust current starters, or young players with potential. Not mid level squaddies. We have loads of those already.
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You say that but when Shaw inevitably misses matches, we will have a natural left back to replace him.

It might also allow Brandon to play right back (and finally shed off TFM / Dalot).

Telles also gives us an actual attacking threat from the left flank. If I have to see one more sideways pass from our left wing/backs, I'm going to break my TV :lol:
 
DevilRed said:
You say that but when Shaw inevitably misses matches, we will have a natural left back to replace him.

It might also allow Brandon to play right back (and finally shed off TFM / Dalot).

Telles also gives us an actual attacking threat from the left flank. If I have to see one more sideways pass from our left wing/backs, I'm going to break my TV :lol:
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I just have low faith in our board to make the right calls, even after starting to get things right with Maguire, Wan Bissaka and Bruno.It probably doesn't help that the press make so much nonsense up about us, which increases the idea that we're utter clueless buffoons in our approach to things.
 
Telles is a no brainer at that price, he’s far better than Shaw, his attacking ability from left back is superb, he’s worth every penny at around £18m
 
Gordon S said:
I don`t get this, €20m for Telles is a good deal, even in these times?
Have we allocated all our money to the Sancho deal and there is simply no money left?
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I hope this is the case, but think it's just porto trying to get couple more mil out of it
 
Loon said:
So, basically you're saying you'll only be optimistic if we sign Sancho?
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Not necessarily Sancho or bust but a RW who can spot Greenwood and has enough about him that he can provide something in his own right would be great.

Someone like Brooks or McNeil I'd be equally delighted with. Add in Sancho at a later date and we'll have top quality back up for the latter when Greenwood inevitably moves to the middle.
 
Our negotiating tactics are quite strange at times. When it comes to outgoing transfers, especially for our squad players, we refuse to accept anything less than what we deem them to be worth. On the other hand, when approaching other teams for players, we're only willing to pay what we think they're worth and nothing more. So one thing for us, and one thing for every other club? Is this supposed to be a sensible strategy?
 
This club infuriates me. Are we really that skint due to COVID? I read we have lost £100m. If so, fine. But if we are, why oh why have we been briefing for weeks and months about spending big money? Surely that only builds resentment in the fan base?
 
Higgy74 said:
Telles is a no brainer at that price, he’s far better than Shaw, his attacking ability from left back is superb, he’s worth every penny at around £18m
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And yet our negotiators want 20M for Smalling while telling Porto that Telles is only worth 12M. Double standards by them.
 
Gordon S said:
I don`t get this, €20m for Telles is a good deal, even in these times?
Have we allocated all our money to the Sancho deal and there is simply no money left?
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Should have loads of money considering we're not signing him.
 
Can we get any transfer done. Ed is just lowballing everybody so we dont sign anybody and he can say he tried. More no value in the market bollocks.
 
mazhar13 said:
If you add extra bodies in any bit of communication, that communication tends to get delayed. I've seen this in corporate work environments on many occasions. Each body in the middle will have their own view of the matter and provide their own feedback accordingly. The little bits of constant back-and-forth in between different people add up the time it takes for a message to get through at the end of the day.

Example (with a bunch of hypotheticals based on my experiences in a corporate work environment; get ready for a block of text):
  • United give their demands to our third-party representative via, say, email (15 million Euros).
  • The email is read after, say, one hour (because they're busy with other matters as well).
  • Our rep then sends an email back stating that Porto may not accept that and that they'd accept something like 25 million Euros. That email is read by United after some time (because United are also busy with work and not just twiddling their thumbs). Whoever's negotiating this on our end comes up with a counter-proposal that is then sent up to Judge, who then provides his feedback. After some more work, the proposal is sent to Woodward. After some more work, the proposal is sent to Joel Glazer. After some time (and updates via feedback), Joel approves on a new proposal.
  • We then send this new proposal over to our rep. Rinse and repeat this until we come up with something that the rep's happy enough with.
  • Our rep then sends this bit of info over to Porto's rep via email. Porto's rep read the email after some time as well.
  • Porto's rep comes back and then provides their feedback. We go back into the same communication loop highlighted previously. Rinse and repeat until Porto's rep is happy with something.
  • Porto's rep then sends this to the club. The club provides their feedback, and the info is eventually passed all the way back to United. Rinse and repeat until we come up with a deal that Porto are happy with.
  • We finally submit a formal offer to Porto, which they'd accept once they see said offer.

If you want a footballing example of this, see the Koulibaly transfer saga. Napoli and City aren't directly dealing with each other; both clubs are going through Koulibaly's agent, and that's slowing down the talks.

Contrast this to a situation without intermediaries. United send an offer directly to Porto. Porto acknowledge the offer. Porto then goes through the deal on their end and provides feedback to United. United then offer a counter-proposal (after some internal assessments). Rinse and repeat until Porto are happy with something that we offer.

Why does going to agents take longer? Agents themselves have some idea of what the other party could accept, and we'd need to come to an agreement with them before something gets back to the club. If we negotiate directly with the club, however, we'd get instant feedback of what they'd want instead of what agents think they'd want. Fewer bodies => more direct and transparent communication => fewer delays

Hopefully that explains it. If not, then let me know what's contentious for you.
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Are you alright?

Agents are there to speed things up, not slow things down. I deal with agents all the time. Despite getting a bad rep, they are a value add in most cases. (We will park the issue of fee size to one side).

Stop defending who have shown to be terrible at their jobs.

I deal in contracts worth more than all but perhaps 10 Premier League clubs. You don’t have to explain how long a phone call or email takes.

Regardless of that, even jumping through the rings of fire you’re setting up... it doesn’t take this long to get things done.
 
If Thiago was around £27m with a year left on his contract then this should be well under £20m unless there's competition. If we are interested let's hope we can strike a good deal for once.
 
Frosty said:
This club infuriates me. Are we really that skint due to COVID? I read we have lost £100m. If so, fine. But if we are, why oh why have we been briefing for weeks and months about spending big money? Surely that only builds resentment in the fan base?
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We are definitely going to incur some significant losses this year. I can only imagine what this will do to other clubs who rely even more on matchday income and TV revenue.

Who knows. Maybe Ed was waiting for this announcement and will go into the last week of the window firing off take it or leave it bids :lol:

One can dream.
 
Ralph1386 said:
And yet our negotiators want 20M for Smalling while telling Porto that Telles is only worth 12M. Double standards by them.
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Not really. Smalling is a PL Champion with 10 years experience playing at the top level, a ton of England caps, spent last season playing in Serie A where by all accounts he had an excellent campaign and has a couple of years left on his contract. Telles is playing in a lower standard league, flopped during his brief tenure at Inter 4 years ago, has 1 charity cap and can negotiate a free transfer in just over 3 months.
 
To be fair, if he's pushing actively for a move, if Porto can't afford his wages, and if he's off next summer anyway then feck them, stick to £12m. You know they'll take it even if it takes a couple more days.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Are you alright?

Agents are there to speed things up, not slow things down. I deal with agents all the time. Despite getting a bad rep, they are a value add in most cases. (We will park the issue of fee size to one side).

Stop defending who have shown to be terrible at their jobs.

I deal in contracts worth more than all but perhaps 10 Premier League clubs. You don’t have to explain how long a phone call or email takes.

Regardless of that, even jumping through the rings of fire you’re setting up... it doesn’t take this long to get things done.
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Why are you taking this personally? I'm not trying to undermine or offend you.

I am not looking to defend the club. Rather, I am showing how we slow down the process even further as our leaders would want to approve every transaction that they'd come across. The agents should be representing the club and giving us a deal that we'd be happy with, but I doubt that our club leaders would not want to be out of the loop. They're the source of the delay, not the agents. Ideally, the agents would take care of business for us and give us whatever, but the fact that we take long to approve deals is where the problem arises.

My point is that agents themselves aren't necessarily to blame for our talks slowing down. The fact that we add more bodies in the line of communication, however, will add delays as our club higher-ups will want to remain in the loop before committing to a proposal. The Koulibaly saga is especially interesting; you have one agent representing everyone, and neither City nor Napoli want to budge.

I use my corporate experiences as an example because my higher-ups want to be constantly aware of what's going on without ever taking in the full picture. I imagine that to be the case with United's higher-ups as well.
 
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This deal is a must. More output from LB is needed and Shaw isn't gonna provide it.
 
Jimmy Greenhoff's Chest said:
Not really, the Thiago transfer dragged on for weeks, with Liverpool allegedly not wanting to pay up, we were meant to be interested, then Liverpool decided they could pay after selling Brewster. It took a lot longer than the proposed Telles transfer has taken so far.
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He's still a Liverpool player?
 
VP89 said:
To be fair, if he's pushing actively for a move, if Porto can't afford his wages, and if he's off next summer anyway then feck them, stick to £12m. You know they'll take it even if it takes a couple more days.
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That extra 5m we get from ONE match day. I understand we won’t have a full stadium soon but that’s how quickly we can make it up.
 
RDCR07 said:
That extra 5m we get from ONE match day. I understand we won’t have a full stadium soon but that’s how quickly we can make it up.
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Thats sales, not profit. Doubt we make much more than £1.5m profit per game.
 
Gandalf said:
Not really. Smalling is a PL Champion with 10 years experience playing at the top level, a ton of England caps, spent last season playing in Serie A where by all accounts he had an excellent campaign and has a couple of years left on his contract. Telles is playing in a lower standard league, flopped during his brief tenure at Inter 4 years ago, has 1 charity cap and can negotiate a free transfer in just over 3 months.
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Yet we can't play him as first teamer when we desperately need a good defender alongside Maguire.
 
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