On what evidence? he's not been very good this season. Although, that could be just down to form, rather than a sign that he's declining.
Alex Song?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
On what evidence? he's not been very good this season. Although, that could be just down to form, rather than a sign that he's declining.
Potentially. He's been dreadful this season, though, so we'll have to wait and see.
I think if we get some good options for CM, who maybe might be able to challenge Carrick for a spot, Carrick might get back to his best. His style of play shouldn't really be affected by age so I don't think he's in decline, I just think this season he's on autopilot with very little inspiration and motivation. If we can get things on a roll again, I'm sure he can become a key player in the side, again. Even now with a poor season he looks a level above the other options anyway.
Yaya Toure was the same in his final season at Barcelona, looked so bad. He's obviously nowhere near as good but I thought City were taking a risk for a player who barely plays and looked poor when he did that last season. As it turned out it took barely any time to shake the rust
Song is quite possibly the least disciplined defensive midfielder I've seen. A good player, he's better than what we've got, but our midfield needs elite acquisitions, not a 'defensive midfielder that is actually just a pretty good all rounder. He's neither, or. We need a creative, dynamic ball-playing midfielder foremostly, the Gundogan's, Kroos' or even Ander Herrera's of this world.
I was talking about Carrick.
Yeah that's my issue with him. Neither here nor there and not really a great all round complete footballer either. Obviously good enough for us at his best but given what we have I wouldn't go for him.
What we have is not as good as Alex Song, Barcelona's reserve
I think Song would be a decent option. I assume he wouldn't cost a fortune and although he's a defensive player his technique is actually rather good and he made goals for RvP at Arsenal.
The fact he's not playing at Barca is because they have the excellent Busquets, who is not only a good player, but is a homegrown player. Plus I suspect even having more than defensive midfielder in the squad, never mind team, is considered uncouth at Barcelona.
The fact he's not playing at Barca is because they have the excellent Busquets, who is not only a good player, but is a homegrown player. Plus I suspect even having more than defensive midfielder in the squad, never mind team, is considered uncouth at Barcelona.
All a player needs sometimes is a new environment and manager/system to bring out the best in them. Song was always going to be an afterthought at Barcelona.
My problem with Song is less his quality and more the type of player he is. "Not top quality defensive midfielder who is actually more of an all rounder" is a role Fellaini has nailed down for the foreseeable future, regardless of how he actually does. Until he proves conclusively that he can't fulfill that role adequately for us there really isn't room for Song.
I suspect Moyes would love to play them together. Hes a miles better passer than Fellaini, its no more negative than Fletcher Carrick
He'l be back on form soon. Him being poor this season is no big surprise considering how we've played. With his style of play, he can play for us 2 yrs easy.
We have enough squad players. We need some actual quality in the central midfield. Song in terms of quality is nothing more than Fellaini, Fletcher or Cleverly.
Cleverly is not going to be sold. He is a home grown talent, who I still think can grow into a effective squad player.
The club has sold home grown talent before and will continue to do so, if that's the reason you don't think he will be sold you're living in dream land. He will be 25 by the time the new season starts, he should be established by now and but he's nowhere near it, in fact he's still seen as potential
.Ok let's say Cleverly isn't sold. That leaves us with a 33 yo Carrick, Fletcher who has been out for a long period and understandably isn't the same player he was, Fellaini who we've just signed, and Anderson who will more than likely be sold.
So what happens if one of our star midfielders gets injured or when suspension comes along, that's not even taking into account resting players.
So yeah, we need more squad players as well as first team starters.
Replacing Cleverley with Cameroonian Cleverley doesn't sound like a very smart idea.
Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher & Cleverley are good options along with another world class signing, and probably adding Powell to the mix. An injury troubled season for Carrick doesn't mean he is done for. Age of 33 is not too old in a role he is deployed in.
Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher & Cleverley are good options along with another world class signing, and probably adding Powell to the mix. An injury troubled season for Carrick doesn't mean he is done for. Age of 33 is not too old in a role he is deployed in.
Feck home grown talent. Personally I'd love it if Cleverley got canned. We've wasted years on the basis of sentimentality and the guy has time and again shown the lack of cojones. If we had been ruthless at the right time, we wouldn't have ended up with a midfield of almost 33 Carrick, 40 year old Giggsy, 3 years out of football Fletcher, fat Ando, Cleverley and the big guy. Utter shambles.
And just for the record Song is waaay better than Cleverley.
And just for the record Song is waaay better than Cleverley.
Would've been happy with him or Luiz Gustavo ahead of Fellaini if it happened last summer. Now we have to look at the absolute highest quality possible and as arrogant as some may take it (particularly resident Gooners or dippers) we have to seek out better players than Alex Song.
Agreed. The sooner we get rid of Cleverley the better for everyone!
I agree. He is defensively shocking for a 'defensive' midfielder.
I have to say one thing and I think the resident Gunners will back me up. There's this whole misconception that Alex Song is purely a "defensive midfielder" - don't know where that stems from. He's a kind of an all rounder who is good at a lot of things. He offers energy, presence, good passing and decent defensive contribution. He isn't a Bender or Martinez. People who say he's a poor player or a Barcelona reject are doing him disservice. It's just one of those cases where a player doesn't fit into their system. It happened with Ibra, even Sanchez to a certain extent under Pep and Tito - and most of us would take them at United in the blink of an eye. Song may not be as illustrious as those two but he's be a huge upgrade as a 3rd/ 4th choice midfielder. It's a great deal when noobs like Javi Garcia are being signed for 16m.
Just to clear the misnomer of Song being a "defensive midfielder" who is poor at tackling, here are some stats that he's more than a defensive midfielder. I might even class him as box-to-box in his last year at Arsenal.
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Not too shabby for United I think. When you consider that Tom Clevz has accounted for a world beating 2 goals and 3 assists since his debut for us. And this whole notion that we should only sign the elitest players is what has gotten us to this point. It's better to take baby steps than to wait for years for a giant leap. What happens if we can't sign Gundogan, Vidal, Kroos, Koke ? And by that time Song's gone too.. We'll be left with the same shite midfield as this season's.
Just to clear the misnomer of Song being a "defensive midfielder" who is poor at tackling, here are some stats that he's more than a defensive midfielder. I might even class him as box-to-box in his last year at Arsenal.
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Not too shabby for United I think. When you consider that Tom Clevz has accounted for a world beating 2 goals and 3 assists since his debut for us. And this whole notion that we should only sign the elitest players is what has gotten us to this point. It's better to take baby steps than to wait for years for a giant leap. What happens if we can't sign Gundogan, Vidal, Kroos, Koke ? And by that time Song's gone too.. We'll be left with the same shite midfield as this season's.
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No there not, you seem to think this 'World Class' signing will never get injured, suspended or rested.
Cleverly is not united standard, Fletcher isn't the same player he was and Carrick will be 33.
Has little to no experience playing at the highest level, he has it all to prove. If he does return next season he will be used as a bit part player. However I hope he does stay as he looks like a decent prospect.
No one said he is done for, but at 33 he's going to need rested more and will pick up injuries more easily.
You seem to have it in your head that players never get injured, we have had to resort to playing a 40 yo and a CB as our midfield partnership on more than one occasion this season.
We need to improve the squad as well as the starting 11.
I'd rather us take the risk on Gundogan.
If Song was the best we are able to get then by all means sign him. I'd just rather we spend money on someone who is top class, rather than repeat the same mistake we've made and stockpile a bunch of average to decent midfielders.
If Song was the best we are able to get then by all means sign him. I'd just rather we spend money on someone who is top class, rather than repeat the same mistake we've made and stockpile a bunch of average to decent midfielders.
We should have gone for him instead of Fellaini. No real point going for him unless we're intending to sell two out of Cleverley, Fletcher and Carrick.
Not going to happen as we need to keep our 8 home grown players in a 25 player squad. As it is, when Ferdinand and Giggs retire we'll be up against the limit.
What risk? The risk that we'll be 99% likely to be chasing him all summer only for him to stay or move to Real Madrid or something instead ala Fabregas? No champions league football, no title challenge, it'll be hard to get him to want to leave Dortmund (who are in a better situation) let alone pick us over all the teams interested.
If we could get him it would be amazing. We wont get him
(1) Fletcher
(2) Carrick
(3) Cleverley
(4) Smalling
(5) Jones
(6) Evans
(7) Rafael
(8) Zaha
(9) Rooney
(10) Welbeck
M Keane and Lingard would need to be added to the squad if they are still here. Enough home grown players. Anyways, it's a max 17 non home grown players rule rather than a 8 home grown players rule.
(2) Carrick
(3) Cleverley
(4) Smalling
(5) Jones
(6) Evans
(7) Rafael
(8) Zaha
(9) Rooney
(10) Welbeck
M Keane and Lingard would need to be added to the squad if they are still here. Enough home grown players. Anyways, it's a max 17 non home grown players rule rather than a 8 home grown players rule.
I rate him, in hindsight he'd have been a good addition over the summer.
The risk is because of his reported back problems. In the Gundogan thread, there are quite a few people who are hesistant of signing him because of those issues even though he is amongst the top 5 midfielders in world football.
Yeah we probably won't have Champions League football, but did that stop good players from going to City or Monaco when they didn't? We can easily do what those clubs did and offer good wages and whatever we offer will be a huge improvement of what he makes at Dortmund, who don't offer the best wages in the football world.
City and Monaco offered a lot more money than anyone else.
Are we going to offer more money and wages than Monaco, PSG, City, Chelsea and Real Madrid?
We'd have to make him another Wayne Rooney
Song is a better player then Cleverley.
I am secretly hoping we will be signing Song. Terrific player who solves a lot of problems in midfield thanks to a broad skillset.
A much better player than Cleverley.
A much better player than Cleverley.
No thank you.
May be, marginally. Our problem is that we don't need a marginal improvement in quality, we need a proper player this time around. Unfortunately, Song is not that player, neither strong defensively nor creative.
Song is streets ahead of Cleverley. He'd walk into your midfield.
Have you seen him play or are you just making assumptions ? Song would be a massive massive improvement on Tom. And no he's not Cameroonian Cleverley. Why would anyone even say that ? He's better than all of our midfielders infact, Carrick's recent decline now-withstanding. Barcelona don't sign midfielders who're "marginally" better than Cleverley of all people. Watch his matches in Arsenal's 2011-2012 season especially ones like his performance vs Barcelona in Willshere's breakout match.
Oh dear. There's some revisionist nonsense on this forum. Cleverley is nowhere near the level of Alex Song. It's not even close. Song was able to dominate a midfield. Clevs disappears and you consider him on par with Song? Based on what? And with that I'm not saying we should or should not sign him, I'm just taking issue with you thinking somehow you can compare Cleverley to Song.
How is Song only 'marginally' better than Cleverley? 
Song is a midfielder who was consistently improving and had his best season in a free midfield role in 2011/2012, at the age of what? 24, 25? Which is reasonable for a midfielder. He probably hasn't progressed this past couple of years but he's a very good midfielder who would be a great acquisition for us. Very clear improvement on Cleverley, and I like Cleverley.
Song is a midfielder who was consistently improving and had his best season in a free midfield role in 2011/2012, at the age of what? 24, 25? Which is reasonable for a midfielder. He probably hasn't progressed this past couple of years but he's a very good midfielder who would be a great acquisition for us. Very clear improvement on Cleverley, and I like Cleverley.From Dembele to Wanyama to Colback and Huddestone have all been mentioned here as players who would walk into our midfield. So, please forgive me for not buying that argument.
I agree there is a lot of revisionist nonsense on this forum. It is the only place in the world where a players stock rises by virtue of not playing. When was the last time you saw Song play? Or should I buy the argument of the guy who posted above you, that Barcelona buying him is stamp on his quality?
It's not like Cleverley has never had a decent performance for us. He was very good in his limited appearances in 2011-2012 season, before he was heckled by Davies and was injured for most part after that. Even last season, i.e. 2012-2013, he played very well in games before February. City, Chelsea, Real were some his good performances. He somehow dropped off after that Real game and this season has been brutal on him. Though the whole team has massively underperformed this season and there should be collective blame on the players rather than the habit to pick out a couple of usual suspects.
Song had one decent season and then he was sold off the Barcelona. In that season too he hardly shined as a defensive midfielder, in fact that was the weakest part of his game. So, forgive me for not being thrilled at the idea of him joining our midfield ranks.
I wasn't comparing the respective roles of the players but the overall quality. Which in my opinion is not that different.