Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?

[KingEric7]

To be fair it's the 95th min and past the minimum stoppage time, it's pretty much boot the fecking ball in the box and see what happens time not piddle around trying to play nice patterns.

Making yourself available for a pass in space when the man in possession has been closed down isn't playing nice patterns; that's how you go about attacking at any point in any game. Regardless, that clip is absolutely representative of our main issue in those areas. It's literally as if players are concerned about losing the ball to the extent that they will discourage play around the edge of the box.

Everyone is culpable of this to varying extents (even Van Persie and Rooney), and that's the main reason we're constantly finding ourselves repeatedly going out wide to Valencia and Young. It would definitely help if Carrick and Cleverley (or Fellaini or whoever) were more ambitious with their dribbling and play in possession, but nevertheless there are countless times whereby there is just a complete lack of activity in the area being discussed. It's when you look at how other teams play that you realise just how bad this part of our game is.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Making yourself available for a pass in space when the man in possession has been closed down isn't playing nice patterns; that's how you go about attacking at any point in any game. Regardless, that clip is absolutely representative of our main issue in those areas. It's literally as if players are concerned about losing the ball to the extent that they will discourage play around the edge of the box.

Everyone is culpable of this to varying extents (even Van Persie and Rooney), and that's the main reason we're constantly finding ourselves repeatedly going out wide to Valencia and Young. It would definitely help if Carrick and Cleverley were more ambitious with their dribbling and play in possession, but nevertheless there are countless times whereby there is just a complete lack of activity in the area being discussed. It's when you look at how other teams play that you realise just how bad this part of our game is.

I'm not saying it's not an issue but that clip needs background.

 

[noodlehair]

That's no more than an exaggeration. Today was one of Carrick's better games this season. No way did Hernandez play more of the balls you expect from a midfielder than Carrick.

If that was one of his better games then it says pretty much everything. He contributed next to nothing, apart from the ability to pick up the ball and take ages to do nothing with it.

 

[KingEric7]

I'm not saying it's not an issue but that clip needs background.

Yeah fair play.

Sorry, I get so aggravated about this aspect of our game that I'm not even watching the GIF or reading your post properly. I say that up there about it not being the main problem, but you're right in that stuff like that initial touch from Carrick and the dallying on the left wing is so annoying to watch. They're two on one with about 12 yards between them and 20 yards of space around them, yet somehow they end up under pressure.

So many issues with expression in this team.

 

[.Rossi]

Carrick was just there today, in the middle, standing around being a general nonentity. Yes he's very comfortable on the ball and yes he can contribute defensively but his biggest issue is he's a fecking pussy, simple as that. Now that SAF's gone he's reverted back to that comfort zone, he should be trying to improve our tempo and bring players into the game but he's just not willing to, I mean this against Sunderland sums up our midfield:



For me it's been telling how Fletcher has always looked better on the ball than either Carrick or Cleverley when's he gotten the chance this season simply because he's willing to play that short 10-15 yard pass forward to get someone on the half turn and going forward. If not for the paucity of options in the middle I do think Carrick would have been dropped by now, he had a brilliant year last year and I don't think he's looked anywhere near as good this year.

Great post.

 

[Rossa]

I don't think the no movement argument works. He had plenty of movement ahead of him today. So much so that the likes of Welbeck and Hernandez were able to take the ball directly off our midfield and pick out forward passes with relative ease. The problem is he's so insistent on taking his time.

When Javier Hernandez comes on and, in the space of 30 minutes, manages to play more balls from midfield to attack than you, despite being in the attack, that's a pretty good sign you should be doing a LOT fecking better.

Fair enough; I don't think Carrick played well yesterday, but for the most part he does and there tends to be little movement. Carrick at his best pings passes on one and two touches very well without taking time at all - he isn't at his best.

Hernandez was good yesterday though, don't you think?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He's been a right fecking pussy this season so far. He needs to get his finger out and give a feck.

 

[Name Changed]

He is too easy to walk by, as if he doesn't exist and he seems to be getting slower every week. Surely he can't be fit though? And that only makes it an even worse decision that an unfit Jones was played beside him yesterday.

 

[Gladiator]

A mixed performance from Carrick. I dont have much to say as I wasnt really paying much attention to what he was doing. It's hard to see everything when watching a game on first viewing. But despite the nice passes he played (he had some good first-time ones), I thought on some plays he was a bit off the pace and late to react. He has this tendency to drop deeper than needed. Is it really necessary to be close to vidic when Eto'o is chelsea's sole attacking threat in that area? Chelsea did try to thread balls through the middle but they looked to be direct and attack us down the wings as well through Hazard and willian.

Carrick seems to do well when our team is on the frontfoot. He is so good at winning the second ball or intercepting a pass that would usually lead to a break. But when it comes to when the opposition are on top of us, he sort of fades and from my observations, just drops too deep. Jones did him no favours yesterday but since this is the carrick thread, i'm just talking about carrick.

I think what hurts carrick the most is that he's not the most mobile of players. It's true that at times he didnt have much options off the ball but Chelsea also dropped their midfield line deep as if to encourage Carrick and Jones to do something on the ball. Both were reluctant to drive forward with it despite being in open space.

 

[MoneyMay]

How serious is the injury?

 

[Bojan11]

Was poor once again. Can't recall the last time he stamped his authority on a game this season.

 

[Godfather]

He's in his start of the season mode. Absolutely useless at this time

 

[Rozay]

We need to start having an eye on life after Carrick I think. All this need to find the perfect partner for Carrick shouldn't influence our business much. He will be 33 this summer, and has so far had an underwhelming season for a variety of reasons. If we see a good young midfielder, we should get him, and then worry about finding the perfect partner for HIM.

I just hope whoever replaces him has some more dynamism about him.

 

[Bloxy]

We need to start having an eye on life after Carrick I think. All this need to find the perfect partner for Carrick shouldn't influence our business much. He will be 33 this summer, and has so far had an underwhelming season for a variety of reasons. If we see a good young midfielder, we should get him, and then worry about finding the perfect partner for HIM.

I just hope whoever replaces him has some more dynamism about him.

he'll come good in the last 10 games as usual, but yes we really should be looking to replace him or at least what he brings to the team, which wont be easy if we don't have at least another mobile midfielder who are good on the ball.

 

[Rozay]

he'll come good in the last 10 games as usual, but yes we really should be looking to replace him or at least what he brings to the team, which wont be easy if we don't have at least another mobile midfielder who are good on the ball.

I don't know if he'll come good for the last batch of games as usual this time. Usually, he has a few months in the team playing poorly before it picks up. This year, with the injuries (could be another bad one tonight), come the end of the season he will not have that rhythm.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Has Tom Cleverley Space Jammed Michael Carrick?

Actually, that would be harsh on Tom Cleverley - who probably would have peformed much better than Carrick tonight. What the feck is wrong with him at the moment?

 

[Nighteyes]

Fletcher was easily worse than him.

 

[Rob Bowman]

Will be an interesting day as I am very worried about the extent of his injury...

 

[Escobar]

He's just not the player to step up and take control and boss. And that's what we need now in the middle of the park

 

[Rob Bowman]

Carrick was just there today, in the middle, standing around being a general nonentity. Yes he's very comfortable on the ball and yes he can contribute defensively but his biggest issue is he's a fecking pussy, simple as that. Now that SAF's gone he's reverted back to that comfort zone, he should be trying to improve our tempo and bring players into the game but he's just not willing to, I mean this against Sunderland sums up our midfield:



For me it's been telling how Fletcher has always looked better on the ball than either Carrick or Cleverley when's he gotten the chance this season simply because he's willing to play that short 10-15 yard pass forward to get someone on the half turn and going forward. If not for the paucity of options in the middle I do think Carrick would have been dropped by now, he had a brilliant year last year and I don't think he's looked anywhere near as good this year.

Okay I finally have a few minutes and can comment on this gif...

Let's start with some basic offensives principles, a balance of penetration, support, width, mobility, and improvisation is ideal for any offense to work well. If you think of Barca or Bayern in full flow you will see a nice balance of all those principles.

So here in the clip we have the wide man, Carrick in support (which is his primary duty) and then literally 5 United players static near the goal. Honestly what do you expect Carrick to do here? There is no point in him running forward as we already have too many bodies forward. I mean look at all the acres of space ion the middle. why is no forward United player coming back to the ball and filling that space?

So you want Carrick to drive the team and not look a "pussy"... sorry what exactly do you want him to do in that clip? Maybe Messi, Ronaldo, Robben or Ribery might be able to create something here with these team mates but other than that I fail to see what you see in this clip that is so bad on Carrick's part .

Far more importantly I see this clip showing the team problems. We are static and have no desire to move to support the man with the ball. Yes Carrick did not move for a give and go or anything else, but should he make that run and is covered, then the man with the ball will have literally no passing options visible. Carrick's primary job is support and finding a good pass. But to find a good pass you need a team mate running and moving to space... So where is that good pass he missed? I see no options, and that is the issue here in my mind, certai9nly not some primary problem with Carrick.

All the Carrick haters do not understand, that Carrick looked phenomenal when he had skilled team mates who would move for a pass. In fact Carrick has been the starting CM in United's most dominant period in their entire history and not because he is amazing but because he helps other players work together more effectively. It is a subtle skill but critical for any team lifting trophies, in fact every good team lifting trophies has a similar player. One who is not scoring loads of goals but helping others do it better.

Carrick in *NOT* a world beater, he is like many other holding CMs, he can make a team much better, but he will not win games on his own. Frankly I see an abject United team that does little off the ball in this clip or in general right now. I mean would Schweiny or Alonso be able to make something amazing happen if they were in the GIF and not Carrick... I doubt it. So you want to tell me what Carrick is doing poorly no worries, but at least work in the realm of realistic. He is what he is and he is very good at that, but he is one of 11 and frankly I see much bigger issues elsewhere on the pitch and I see it very clearly in that GIF.

Just my two cents... flames begin now...

 

[shaggy]

Absolute piss poor at the moment. A real concern. We need our senior players to stand up and be counted not do a Cleverley. Really disappointed in him.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Fletcher was easily worse than him.

Not a chance. Fletcher at least had some balls about his performance, was getting himself around and actually trying to move us forwards.

Carricks performance was incredibly lazy by his standards (a fair few underhit/overhit passes), and at no point did he seem to want to do the difficult thing... which was perfectly highlighted when, at one point, he just booted the ball out for a throwing when under a bit of pressure.

 

[Bloxy]

Okay I finally have a few minutes and can comment on this gif...

Let's start with some basic offensives principles, a balance of penetration, support, width, mobility, and improvisation is ideal for any offense to work well. If you think of Barca or Bayern in full flow you will see a nice balance of all those principles.

So here in the clip we have the wide man, Carrick in support (which is his primary duty) and then literally 5 United players static near the goal. Honestly what do you expect Carrick to do here? There is no point in him running forward as we already have too many bodies forward. I mean look at all the acres of space ion the middle. why is no forward United player coming back to the ball and filling that space?

So you want Carrick to drive the team and not look a "pussy"... sorry what exactly do you want him to do in that clip? Maybe Messi, Ronaldo, Robben or Ribery might be able to create something here with these team mates but other than that I fail to see what you see in this clip that is so bad on Carrick's part .

Far more importantly I see this clip showing the team problems. We are static and have no desire to move to support the man with the ball. Yes Carrick did not move for a give and go or anything else, but should he make that run and is covered, then the man with the ball will have literally no passing options visible. Carrick's primary job is support and finding a good pass. But to find a good pass you need a team mate running and moving to space... So where is that good pass he missed? I see no options, and that is the issue here in my mind, certai9nly not some primary problem with Carrick.

All the Carrick haters do not understand, that Carrick looked phenomenal when he had skilled team mates who would move for a pass. In fact Carrick has been the starting CM in United's most dominant period in their entire history and not because he is amazing but because he helps other players work together more effectively. It is a subtle skill but critical for any team lifting trophies, in fact every good team lifting trophies has a similar player. One who is not scoring loads of goals but helping others do it better.

Carrick in *NOT* a world beater, he is like many other holding CMs, he can make a team much better, but he will not win games on his own. Frankly I see an abject United team that does little off the ball in this clip or in general right now. I mean would Schweiny or Alonso be able to make something amazing happen if they were in the GIF and not Carrick... I doubt it. So you want to tell me what Carrick is doing poorly no worries, but at least work in the realm of realistic. He is what he is and he is very good at that, but he is one of 11 and frankly I see much bigger issues elsewhere on the pitch and I see it very clearly in that GIF.

Just my two cents... flames begin now...

Agreed on the part where no other United players are making themselves available. They're all just hoping for a good hoof into the box. What I cant understand is that we did that last year and we seem to be doing it this year again.

 

[arthurka]

Absolute piss poor at the moment. A real concern. We need our senior players to stand up and be counted not do a Cleverley. Really disappointed in him.

Apart from Smalling yesterday can you name me a player who played a decent game yesterday? Not glimpses or a half the whole game?
Carrick just got back from injury its not him its the team setup that is lacking.. We look lost and scared and our standout players from last year look a shadow of their former self.. But I get your point he isnt pulling anything atm but so are a bunch of players playing for us to..

 

[shaggy]

Apart from Smalling yesterday can you name me a player who played a decent game yesterday? Not glimpses or a half the whole game?
Carrick just got back from injury its not him its the team setup that is lacking.. We look lost and scared and our standout players from last year look a shadow of their former self.. But I get your point he isnt pulling anything atm but so are a bunch of players playing for us to..

He's still played 17 times overall this season, and looked well below last year's level. A midfield of Carrick and Fletcher should be more than enough to take hold of the game against fecking Sunderland at Old Trafford. Embarrassing.

 

[Decotron]

Absolute piss poor at the moment. A real concern. We need our senior players to stand up and be counted not do a Cleverley. Really disappointed in him.

Yep hes had a very slow start to the season. Its a bit embarressing to see fans turning on him (not directed at you btw). Heard a few barstoolers last night saying "I told you hes always been shite" etc

Its like they've been waiting in the shadows for him to play poorly. blind plastic fecks.

 

[Rob Bowman]

He's still played 17 times overall this season, and looked well below last year's level. A midfield of Carrick and Fletcher should be more than enough to take hold of the game against fecking Sunderland at Old Trafford. Embarrassing.

Yeah but last year we had Rooney and RVP... who do we have now?

That is my issue we have so little quality across the pitch... yes Carrick is not setting the world on fire but seriously we have almost nothing except an 18 year old kid around him of quality... .

 

[arthurka]

He's still played 17 times overall this season, and looked well below last year's level. A midfield of Carrick and Fletcher should be more than enough to take hold of the game against fecking Sunderland at Old Trafford. Embarrassing.

This I agree with.. Thats our problem, our players dont seem to be playing for Moyes so who knows..

 

[shaggy]

Yep hes had a very slow start to the season. Its a bit embarressing to see fans turning on him (not directed at you btw). Heard a few barstoolers last night saying "I told you hes always been shite" etc

Its like they've been waiting in the shadows for him to play poorly. blind plastic fecks.

Well they're cnuts. Other than Ashley Young, who I can't help but hate with a passion, I hate seeing our players perform like donkeys... and well below their level. Carrick's so much better than this, what the feck has happened with these players

 

[noodlehair]

He shouldn't be in the team at the moment, and it's been going on more than long enough that Moyes should be able to see that.

His performance last night was completely embarassing. He's the biggest spineless coward going at a time when we need people with character.

Since coming back from injury he's demonstrated he has absolutely zero character about him at all. I would be looking for a replacement for him and go back to Jones/Cleverley/Fletcher in the mean time, until he shows something to convince me otherwise.

We won 6 in a row without needing him before he came back, playing well in 4 of those games. How many have we managed to win since he's come back? About 1 game out of 8? It can hardly JUST be a coincidence. He's been our worst player in nearly all of those games with the possible occasional exception of Vidic.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yep hes had a very slow start to the season. Its a bit embarressing to see fans turning on him (not directed at you btw). Heard a few barstoolers last night saying "I told you hes always been shite" etc

Its like they've been waiting in the shadows for him to play poorly. blind plastic fecks.

For people to say shit like that is daft.

If anything, I'm more critical of him because we know the level that he can and should be operating at. This Carrick is a shadow of the bloke who was our best player last season... I'd say it's fair to say the majority of people are being harsh on him because we expect so much more.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I think some are too kind to Fletcher given the circumstances.

Its a terrible partnership because they both want to do the same thing.

Carrick has needed a partner since about 2009. Its not happened and its showing up the centre again.

Despite that the return of Wayne Rooney and van Persie will instantly improve Carrick. They actually have the ability to move and control a ball unlike Welbeck Hernandez and Kagawa last night who displayed some of the worst movement I've ever seen attempted. If they weren't unnecessarily dropping deep, they were standing on their heels in front of Sunderland's defence expecting him to make a 10 yard pass through 3 players.

The front four concerns me more at the moment.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Okay I finally have a few minutes and can comment on this gif...

Let's start with some basic offensives principles, a balance of penetration, support, width, mobility, and improvisation is ideal for any offense to work well. If you think of Barca or Bayern in full flow you will see a nice balance of all those principles.

So here in the clip we have the wide man, Carrick in support (which is his primary duty) and then literally 5 United players static near the goal. Honestly what do you expect Carrick to do here? There is no point in him running forward as we already have too many bodies forward. I mean look at all the acres of space ion the middle. why is no forward United player coming back to the ball and filling that space?

So you want Carrick to drive the team and not look a "pussy"... sorry what exactly do you want him to do in that clip? Maybe Messi, Ronaldo, Robben or Ribery might be able to create something here with these team mates but other than that I fail to see what you see in this clip that is so bad on Carrick's part .

Far more importantly I see this clip showing the team problems. We are static and have no desire to move to support the man with the ball. Yes Carrick did not move for a give and go or anything else, but should he make that run and is covered, then the man with the ball will have literally no passing options visible. Carrick's primary job is support and finding a good pass. But to find a good pass you need a team mate running and moving to space... So where is that good pass he missed? I see no options, and that is the issue here in my mind, certai9nly not some primary problem with Carrick.

All the Carrick haters do not understand, that Carrick looked phenomenal when he had skilled team mates who would move for a pass. In fact Carrick has been the starting CM in United's most dominant period in their entire history and not because he is amazing but because he helps other players work together more effectively. It is a subtle skill but critical for any team lifting trophies, in fact every good team lifting trophies has a similar player. One who is not scoring loads of goals but helping others do it better.

Carrick in *NOT* a world beater, he is like many other holding CMs, he can make a team much better, but he will not win games on his own. Frankly I see an abject United team that does little off the ball in this clip or in general right now. I mean would Schweiny or Alonso be able to make something amazing happen if they were in the GIF and not Carrick... I doubt it. So you want to tell me what Carrick is doing poorly no worries, but at least work in the realm of realistic. He is what he is and he is very good at that, but he is one of 11 and frankly I see much bigger issues elsewhere on the pitch and I see it very clearly in that GIF.

Just my two cents... flames begin now...

It was the 95th fecking minute, get it in the fecking box and yes he's a pussy, he's always pissing about playing safe passes. Miss me with the 'oh he's good when everyone is playing well' rubbish too, Fletcher's come back from a potentially career ending illness and shown far much more heart and drive than Carrick has. It's basics to pass the ball and move and create space and yes one player can start movements and play that has a knock on effect on the rest of the team.

 

[Rob Bowman]

It was the 95th fecking minute, get it in the fecking box and yes he's a pussy, he's always pissing about playing safe passes. Miss me with the 'oh he's good when everyone is playing well' rubbish too, Fletcher's come back from a potentially career ending illness and shown far much more heart and drive than Carrick has. It's basics to pass the ball and move and create space and yes one player can start movements and play that has a knock on effect on the rest of the team.

Like I said... amazing how crap he is yet he is the starting CM the most dominate stretch is United's history. But please explain technically or tactically what Alonso or Martinez would do different in that situation that would be sooooo much better.

But honestly that is what sports is all about now... instead of appreciating what players can do we knock them about for the one or two flaws they do have.

Carry on... .

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Like I said... amazing how crap he is yet he is the starting CM the most dominate stretch is United's history. But please explain technically what Alonso or Martinez would do different in that situation that would be sooooo much better.

But honestly that is what sports is all about now... instead of appreciating what players can do we knock them about for the one or two flaws they do have.

Carry on... .

Did you just compare him to Martinez, fecking hell. I think I've acknowledged his qualities before in this thread but Carrick is a pussy

 

[Aboutreika18]

We should have been looking at his future replacement a while ago.

It was unlikely that he'd keep up that level of performance last season given he was already the wrong side of 30.

 

[Rossa]

Like I said... amazing how crap he is yet he is the starting CM the most dominate stretch is United's history. But please explain technically what Alonso or Martinez would do different in that situation that would be sooooo much better.

But honestly that is what sports is all about now... instead of appreciating what players can do we knock them about for the one or two flaws they do have.

Carry on... .

Great post - your other one was even better.

Haters will be haters. If people actually think that Carrick is now a shit player, then they know very little. He offers little movement, and we know that. That means that the other players must move then. Messi will never score a lot of goals if you keep hoofing it into the box from wide, so you don't do that. Play to players' strengths.

 

[Devil may care]

He just hasn't gotten going this season with one thing and another and now he's injured again. Hopefully it's not too serious.

 

[Aboutreika18]

It's nothing to do with haters. He's been a complete non-entity in our midfield this season.

That could be because of his injuries, our over reliance on him last season, him declining as a player, him being a big giant wuss who can't grab control of games etc.

 

[Sam]

He's been terrible this season, absolutely woeful.

 

[Tribec]

Whilst turning in good performances in general over the past few years, I've had concerns over Carrick since the Barca cup final of 09. When he's being pressed or harried to play the ball he's more than likely to make a mistake and either mislay his pass or give it away. Against teams that don't press as much he can perform and has done very well. After 09, few sides picked up on the Barca way of playing, however increasingly after the 11 final we've seen more teams do so and Carrick's effectiveness in them is next to nothing.

Perhaps the lack of support in the midfield hasn't helped, but he hasn't been the most mobile of players ever, and after such a long term injury as he's just had, I've given him some slack, but he's just not looking as if he's going to pick his game up and he's looking slower every game. We do need to look for his long term replacement or we may have them at the club already, either way I can't see a long term future for Carrick, perhaps another season at the max.