Spot on ^
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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Carrick is one of the coolest football player I've ever seen. When he's on form, he just brings calm, composure and organization to our team.
Amazing how after almost every game some can claim he was poor and others that he was excellent. He really polarizes opinions! He's the antithesis of a highlights reel player. Often a golden moment or two can define a performance for viewers and fans - and hugely sway a match rating - but Carrick is never going to be that player. His job is not to bomb past the midfield, he won't drive a 40 yard screamer, nor does he need to dive recklessly into challenges like a Scott Parker type. He's unappreciated and understated - continental in style - albeit not as dominating and consistent as we would all like. He's there to get on the ball in the midfield and spread it around, and defensively he's superb too.
He is slowly but surely finding his form. His midfield display (mainly his off the ball work) goes a bit unnoticed and thats why he's not as appreciated as an all action player.
Except this season he's been crap defensively and is "spreading the ball around" worse than all of our other midfielders and arguably worse than one of our centrebacks in Johnny Evans.
This is just plain bollocks. In the long argument above, some are saying Carrick had a good game, some are saying he did well but only in an easy game. Either are reasonable arguments. But your criticisms don't seem to have any relation to the actual game. He made one very bad mispass which led to a good Arsenal attack, and that was pretty much it as far as errors go. Otherwise he was, at the very least, very solid (and personally I think he was very good.)
Even Pete thinks he had a great game, for crying out loud!
There seem to be plenty who think he had a poor game in the match ratings thread.
Not that it matters, since redcafe has a habit of being completely wrong about things, or only noticing them 3 months after everyone else has.
I'm probably getting on his back more than usual and picking up on things I otherwise wouldn't, because I've become fed up with his shite performances so far this season, and lack of showing any noticable desire to do anything about it.
What I do now is he's capable of playing a LOT better than he currently is.
SAF isn't playing Scholes these days so Mr. Noodles had found himself a new target.
Carrick did his job pretty well in the Arsenal game. He wasn't the creator-in-chief (never has been), his job was to stop the likes of Arteta, Wilshire and Cazorla playing and he did that combined with Rooney and Cleverley. I agree that he hasn't hit his best form yet but to say he had a poor game is an exaggeration. May be you are watching him too closely in order to pick out faults in his game. Can that be a reason? Because I didn't see him doing too many things wrong. A missed pass here and there and that is all.
Are you sure your expectations aren't too high? If you are expecting him to be running around, hassling players, making tackes, you are going to be disappointed. May be you have DeRossi in mind while you are watching Carrick.
Carrick did his job pretty well in the Arsenal game. He wasn't the creator-in-chief (never has been), his job was to stop the likes of Arteta, Wilshire and Cazorla playing and he did that combined with Rooney and Cleverley. I agree that he hasn't hit his best form yet but to say he had a poor game is an exaggeration. May be you are watching him too closely in order to pick out faults in his game. Can that be a reason? Because I didn't see him doing too many things wrong. A missed pass here and there and that is all.
Are you sure your expectations aren't too high? If you are expecting him to be running around, hassling players, making tackes, you are going to be disappointed. May be you have DeRossi in mind while you are watching Carrick.
He is our 'water carrier', or whatever Cantona dubbed Deschamps to be.....
No he isnt. He is a good footballer who is capable at times of doing more than he does.
Water carriers generally only win the ball and play it simple. Carrick has more strings to his bow.
Regardless of whether you thought he was good or not, Carrick can certainly play better. Like our wingers, he's playing within himself and it's quite annoying to watch. For me, he's been average this season and as much praise as Rooney gets for adding to our play, Carrick can do his fair share as well. Some think playing a few misplaced passes isn't a big deal but when it comes to a player who nominally keeps us ticking, you can see how it upsets our rhythm.
I only had a problem with playing Scholes and Carrick together...have you noticed our obvious increase in performance level since we stopped doing this?
I think I also pointed out many times that Scholes was playing the better of the two. The problem is that Scholes is nearly 40 years old, and neither Cleverley or Anderson will cover him positionally, so a majority of the time he can't play in our current system.
I don't think I have Carrick confused with De Rossi. I think you've confused crap Michael Carrick with good Michael Carrick. He is in the worst form he's been in since he signed for us, imo. It's worse when watching him from the stands too. Every game I've been to this season people have been screaming at him to wake the feck up.
I generally agree with your points noods but you are going over the top with your criticism. He certainly didn't have a good game. His passing was wank but defensively he was ok. Not that it was a difficult task against that utterly shit arsenal side that showed up on saturday, but still
That's exactly it. There wasn't really any defending to do, and his passing was generally slow and sometimes also crap...ergo, poor performance.
To be fair, if a midfielder has a "wank" game with their passing, then they are not doing their job correctly and were probably shit.
He was shit, we were playing a really poor team and it was the perfect opportunity for him to run the game and exert control on the midfield, and he didn't do any of that at all.
I sometimes wish he had half of Rafael's desire.
He's been worse this season than that period around 2010-11 when almost the entire Caf seemed to want him out.
It's frustrating because he's an elegant player on form but a complete passenger when he's having an off-day.
It's frustrating because he's an elegant player on form but a complete passenger when he's having an off-day.
That pretty much sums up his career in general, doesn't change the fact we would be far worse off if he was out for any length of time. As we saw with Evra, having absolutely no competition for his place doesn't really inspire him to find his best form.
Evra has really upped his level since Buttner was brought in. Coincidence? Possibly, but i suspect not personally. A little fear or uncertainty regarding whether or not you will be picked encourages a bit of extra effort, if you are in every week whether you play crap or not, where is the incentive to improve?
Have you noticed that Rooney's return is the reason for the increased performance levels? He has been essentially playing as the third midfielder, dropping deep and helping the 2 CM's. We have been a much better team since his return. I am not denying that playing younger mids in front of Scholes has helped but Rooney has been the major reason.
Carrick hasn't been the best but he hasn't been crap either. He has had a slow start to the season and has performed his defensive duties well over the past few games. His passing was off in the last game but that is going to improve. I think he had a 85% success rate, which is not exactly wank.
I don't think we are ever going to have this Barca like mobile midfield unit that everyone wants under SAF. In this team, the job of the midfielders is to keep it simple and give the ball to the 4 in front of them to provide creativity and the goal threat. I keep making posts in the hope that we play 3 in the middle with Ando/Kag as the third midfielder but there is only a slight chance that is going to be adopted as a system under the old man's rein. I have also won zilch in football.
If we can keep Fletcher, Anderson and Cleverley all fit then Carrick does have competition for his place. We would be in a better position to deal with a Carrick injury now than we would have been at any point last season, for example. I know Fletcher is not up to PL speed yet and is being used in slower games, but having played the number of games he has, and if he was in a midfield three, he might just about manage it now. Or, Cleverson as a midfield two with Rooney playing nominally in midfield.
Basically, we are less reliant on Carrick now than we were, just because we have at least a few other fit midfielders at the moment, even if none of them do exactly what he does.
The last few games includes last week's game against Chelsea in which Chelsea were allowed to consistently run freely at our back four, scored two goals, and probably should have scored more. We were also carved open through midfield several times by the footballing might of Stoke.
This weekend, a midfielder who Carrick was supposed to be keeping an eye on scored against us after fluffing his first two shots and just being allowed to go get the ball and try again each time.
Rooney's made a huge difference going forwards no doubt, as Cleverley and Anderson have, and Van Persie settling in...there are loads of factors you could make an argument for I reckon...but defensively we've been no less suspect, and that's despite our forwards playing well, and our defenders generally playing well. We're simply miles too open all the time. Part of the problem is that Carrick isn't doing the screening job that he usually does so excellently. Teams are running past him or he's not getting close to people quickly enough. Chelsea last week was the best example thus far.
He's also the ALWAYS the one who's not moving when we're in possession. Sometimes that's ok as he deliberately hangs back and offers an out ball if we get into a tight spot. Other times though, he's just stood in a position where it's impossible for anyone to pass to him. This is something that he hasn't done in the past, or at the very least I've rarely noticed him do. It has become an annoying trait this season.
He looks to me like he's playing whilst carrying an injury or something. Either that or he's playing with very little confidence.
Playing him at centreback probably didn't help, but it can only be an excuse for so long when there are other people fighting for places in the team. Not Allowed, Fletcher, Scholes and Giggsy are all struggling for games and all have looked in decent to good form the last time they played.
Personally, I think the Deschamps/Carrick comparison is more flattering to Carrick.
He's a good player but has repeatedly performed poorly when the opposition presses high up the pitch. For that reason I find it almost impossible to rate him too highly.
We had majority possession and controlled the game for the first 35 minutes at the Bridge last weekend. During that period we had majority possession and didn't allow the Chelsea midfield and attack as much as a sniff. Their first real attempt came when around the 35 minute mark Mikel crossed the ball from the right and it hit Evans leg but fortunately touched the cross bar and went out. During the next minutes, Valencia went for two silly challenges and gave free kicks near our box. Young and Valencia were both guilty of losing possession and giving Chelsea the ball during that period. The game came from a horrendous challenge by Rooney on Hazard.
Chelsea's attacking trio of Mata, Oscar and Hazard are really good players and at some point or other were going to create chances. I didn't see them running blatantly running through the midfield during the game. I don't think blaming only Carrick during that continued spell of possession is the right thing. In the second half they came out all guns blazing and got a second but we started getting the control back in the game around the 55-minute mark which led to Ivanovic's foul on Young and the red card. We'll know what would have happened if Torres wasn't sent off but my money from the moment of Ivanovic's red was on United. But anyways, in a game of 60 minutes we had control for >35minutes while Chelsea were dominant for <25. This was away from home mind you.
Again, I don't know the reasons why another midfielder with defensive qualities was not brought but Carrick is our best bet. His only competition is Fletch, who has looked woefully out of pace so far and whose passing is no where near good enough yet to start a PL game. Giggs? You of all people are going to tell me that he should be ahead of Carrick?
I can't think of any reasons why Carrick would be low on confidence. Our attackers have bailed us out on occasions and we could much better in the midfield but all we haven't done too badly since the extra protection in form of Rooney has been back.
Not sure you can blame Carrick for allowing Cazorla to score when he's possibly picking up someone closer to goal and passed him off to someone else. Besides it was just a lack of concentration by the team entirely at the end that allowed Cazorla so much time from what I remember.
Bit harsh there. He's nowhere back to his best but he's mostly managed it well when he's played.
Excellent post. Sorry, only just read it but this neatly sums up Carrick's performance again tonight. For me he was probably our best player over the 90 minutes, screening the defence pretty well and rarely giving the ball away, whereas the mate I watched with was tearing his hair out and screaming for him to be replaced!
I've mostly defended Carrick, but today he didn't show up. Didn't remotely screen our defense, but obviously he wasn't helped by Scholes looking every bit of his 38 years old.
Zombie-Carrick showed up today.
Zombie-Carrick showed up today.
I don't think he can be blamed for today, he's never been mobile enough to do the running of two.
Have to agree. I don't understand how such a gifted player can so consistently under perform. Michael Carrick is capable of so much more than what he produced today. Even the defensive work he did last weekend against Arsenal wasn't there today. Its very disappointing when you consider that as recently as against Newcastle away he was even pinging the ball about first time and now he seems to not even have a picture in his mind of what he wants to do with the ball. I really don't understand it.
It was exactly how I expected him to play alongside Scholes.
Thought he was one of our better players personally, don't think he can be blamed for us going to get caught on the counter, I can't think of anyone out there who can cover the whole midfield defensively themselves, that defensive weakness is a consequence of playing such a wide system and using Scholes, even with a clev/ando you'd see a similar weakness if not as sever simply because that system allows lots of space for the opposition to move in to.
On the ball I thought he was one of the few who tried to actually do something beyond going through the middle, didn't all come off but I'm happy for him to misplace some if he's trying to create. Generally his passing was good and he was calm defensively when needed.
On the ball I thought he was one of the few who tried to actually do something beyond going through the middle, didn't all come off but I'm happy for him to misplace some if he's trying to create. Generally his passing was good and he was calm defensively when needed.
Thats because he spent probably the entire game trying to screen Paul Scholes.
That's the problem, no one could screen the whole midfield with a partner that can't offer much protection and in such a wide system. Can't think of one player at a top club who does that.
Once again I thought he was good today. He's the cog that keeps things ticking over. I can't see how you can say he didn't show up. He made 133 passes today, which will be in the top 5 for a single game at the end of the season. For all the criticisms people have of him, week after week he performs his main function very well. We are a possession based, extremely attacking side, so it's vital to have a player like him in there doing exactly what he does every week. I accept that he didn't screen well today, but the work he does with linking our play up is so efficient, that overall his performance was still good.
Carrick and Scholes combo can certainly still work. As was shown against Spurs, not against these type of teams. You'll get burnt everytime. The wingers being off form only compounds the problem.
Against Spurs they were murdered till Rooney was brought on to help them out.
Giggs's playing left wing didn't exactly help them and when it was evened up in the middle they destroyed spurs just as much in the second half. It's not a combination that's for every game but it certainly still can work if the attackers actually use the ball when they give it to them.
Sorry mate, I worded it strangely but I totally agree with you. I said it doesn't work against teams like Tottenham
There's no way anyne can honestly think Carrick played well in that game. He was utterly pathetic.
There's some kind of Scott Parker syndrome going on with him and you lot...he can spend the entire game completely failing to do his job, but as long as he passes the ball a few times and is so far out of position that he's not actually on the tv screen, he played "quite well"
Can someone explain to me what exactly it was that Carrick did well yesterday?
He provided less protection to the back four than Wayne Rooney and offered the sum total of feck all when we were in possession...every single attack went through Scholes...every single Aston Villa attack went past Michael Carrick.
If he was a new player who we'd signed in the summer he'd have been relegated to the Bebe Basement by now.
It doesn't work against any team. There are just teams who we can sort of get away with it against.
A bit like how putting Macheda in goal wouldn't work in any game, but you might get away with it at home to Reading providing they didn't get any shots on target all game.
There's some kind of Scott Parker syndrome going on with him and you lot...he can spend the entire game completely failing to do his job, but as long as he passes the ball a few times and is so far out of position that he's not actually on the tv screen, he played "quite well"
Can someone explain to me what exactly it was that Carrick did well yesterday?
He provided less protection to the back four than Wayne Rooney and offered the sum total of feck all when we were in possession...every single attack went through Scholes...every single Aston Villa attack went past Michael Carrick.
If he was a new player who we'd signed in the summer he'd have been relegated to the Bebe Basement by now.
It doesn't work against any team. There are just teams who we can sort of get away with it against.
A bit like how putting Macheda in goal wouldn't work in any game, but you might get away with it at home to Reading providing they didn't get any shots on target all game.
Hm good point noods. We do get away with it tbh