Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?

If Carrick was serious about playing for England he would never have made such an ultimatum in the first place. Once he had changed his mind he should have left nobody in any doubt that he was available and willing to be a team player. The parallel you are trying to draw with RVP is ridiculous in the extreme; the dynamic is completely different.

What ronnie says...

A new manager should check to see who his available to him. Not go off some half story under a previous manager.

It's all about your ideas on man-management, I think the best managers travel to France to check on their players' state of mind, the best managers go that extra yard. If Rooney retires from England in a year and I was to take over the England job in 3 years and Rooney is still in top form for United, guess what I do....
 
How is Carrick supposed to know what Hodgson was told and what Hodgson thought the situation was that he should have known to call and clarify the situation?

It was always Roy's responsibility to find out if what he had heard about Carrick was real and if that situation had now changed.

Correct.

Managers manage, players play.
 
If managers are suppose to manage, why is it Roy just figure this out (bold added by me)...

http://www.eatsleepsport.com/Intern...n-hails-veteran-duo-1455455.html#.UCz69qPYKIw

Hodgson hails veteran duo
Last Updated: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 14:34

Veteran midfielders Frank Lampard and Michael Carrick won praise from boss Roy Hodgson after England's friendly win over Italy.

The Three Lions gained revenge for the penalty shoot-out defeat to the Azzurri in the quarter-finals of Euro 2012 earlier in the summer.

Lampard, 34, and 31-year-old Carrick both missed the tournament and while the duo have been the subject of criticism at the highest level, Hodgson dubbed their display in Berne, Switzerland as "outstanding" post-match.

He added: "You don't become a really good player overnight. You have to play an awful lot of football at the highest level.

"They've done that internationally and for two very important club sides.

"The quality of their play was very good and it was good for the youngsters to have those around them showing that composure on the ball."


Lampard and Carrick will now hope to stay in Hodgson's thoughts when the qualification campaign for the 2014 World Cup starts against Moldova next month.

England fell behind to a Daniele De Rossi header on 15 minutes but equalised through Phil Jagielka before Jermain Defoe popped up with the winner 10 minutes from time.
 
Carrick told the FA that he didn't want to go unless he was in the starting line-up. That's a pretty poor attitude and if I was a manager I wouldn't look favourably on that.

From today:

"There was some confusion because some people had thought I had said that if I wasn't going to play, I didn't want to be there (with England).

"That was certainly not the case and anyone who knows me, knows I am not like that."

He goes on to say that he was nowhere near playing under Capello, and that was the issue. Can hardly blame him all things considered, Barry, Parker, Gerrard, Milner and Lampard would've all had to have died in order for Carrick to get a game under Fab.
 
Always thought it didn't fit his persona to demand a starting spot. My initial reading of what was said before the tournament was that carrick had made himself unavailable to capello but not actually retired. And from my reading it sounded to me that carrick would only ever have been a squad/stand by player for hogdson which is why he didn't contact him. I think he was always going to take Barry Parker lamps and Gerrad if possible and has brought him back in after seeing us fail largely for lacking someone like carrick. You can say hogdson was told some dodgy info but ultimately he should have found out for himself and the fact that he didn't and obv didn't think of asking him to reconsider reinforces my belief that he would unlikely have picked him in his first choice squad.
 
Always amazed me that despite being a fixture in a team constantly challenging for titles and getting to European finals, he couldn't get in the England team. A guy that gets praise from some of the best midfielders in the world and the European press gets overlooked for Gareth fecking Barry and Scott "throws his body in the way" Parker.

James Milner was getting more games at centre mid than Carrick, that's just taking the piss.
 
we cannot get away with playing carrick in the middle like barca can with mascherano or busquets (or in the future song). We don't have enough ability to keep possession pinned in the opposing half for 65-70% of the game.

Vidic should've man-marked fellaini instead of letting carrick as evryone knows carrick is a bitch when it comes to the physical side of things.

Also, even little things like when to step up, when to move wide to pick up a player, getting not caught ball watching, etc are things that CB's innately know but carrick is lost there.
 
We can't shit on Carrick really, hes been asked to do a job and there wasn't much else he could have done. Doesn't matter where you play, Fellaini the lamp post will out muscle most players in football let alone Carrick trying to play center back.
 
Vidic got beaten by fellani as well and it wasn't just carrick, he dicked on everyone. The real crime though is not winning the second ball more which both the midfield and defence are guilty off.
 
Have to admit that Carrick got beaten to the ball a few times last year that were crucial. I've never seen a 6'1" lad who is such a powder puff when it comes to marking.

I think if he played CB in a system with less emphasis on maurading wingbacks I think that he'd be a much better CB, plenty of cover. It was blatantly obvious he isn't a natural CB when a few times in a row he tried to head to a player and the ball ballooned 30 yards behind them off his head. Then Vidic to a skytowering monster clearance and nodded it back inside 10 yards on a dime for Carrick.

I hope we get some fit defender's soon. I also don't know why Carrick wasn't the one playing out of defence.
 
One thing for sure we shouldn't play Carrick as CB away from home, at OT against the likes of Wigan we might get away it but not against a big physical team.
 
If Carrick is not the midfield we usually draw and lose.

Big influence this man. Also indicates the lack of cover for him.
 
Well it depends on the protection in front of him. Scholes and clev might keep the ball for more than half the game but what they do when we don't have the ball, from a defensive point of view is the important one, and neither really offered enough protection.
 
If Carrick is not the midfield we usually draw and lose.

Big influence this man. Also indicates the lack of cover for him.

Today was more a case of put Carrick in defence and we lose. I'm surprised at how easily Fellaini toyed with him. Sure, Fellaini is a big fellow but Carrick's not small himself. Problem is he's as physically imposing as Paul Scholes. Can't blame I guess.
 
Vidic got beaten by fellani as well and it wasn't just carrick, he dicked on everyone. The real crime though is not winning the second ball more which both the midfield and defence are guilty off.

Vidic got beaten once or twice. But beat Fellaini to the header once as well. They didn't contest many really. Carrick though was taken to the cleaners. And I disagree about the midfield bit. Carrick was such an anonymity against Fellaini that the latter either was able to take the ball on his chest or head the ball perfectly to his team mates. It's not as if Carrick put him under pressure and it gave other midfielders a chance to get a foot in. Fellaini had complete control over what he was doing.

But as I said, Carrick can't be blamed. He is a bit of a timid player. He's not going to change that overnight for one game.
 
Vidic got beaten once or twice. But beat Fellaini to the header once as well. They didn't contest many really. Carrick though was taken to the cleaners. And I disagree about the midfield bit. Carrick was such an anonymity against Fellaini that the latter either was able to take the ball on his chest or head the ball perfectly to his team mates. It's not as if Carrick put him under pressure and it gave other midfielders a chance to get a foot in. Fellaini had complete control over what he was doing.

But as I said, Carrick can't be blamed. He is a bit of a timid player. He's not going to change that overnight for one game.

I dot agree personally. Well I agree carrick is timid somewhat, but then it's not exactly like Valencia was dominating anyone. I do think though that the midfield, or rather having a midfielder who is solid defensively would have made a big difference. Fellani was winning things to easily but another string midfielder could have helped double up on him, could have organised people better, could have taken up a better position to stop their passes or even to just drop back to effectively a 5 at the back when we were really under the cosh.

I don't think either scholes of clev did or can really do those things. Scholes is reckless and lacks the speed/strength, and clev lacks the experience of it and as I've said before, he gets drawn to the ball and can leave space to exploit as a result.
 
Vidic got beaten once or twice. But beat Fellaini to the header once as well. They didn't contest many really. Carrick though was taken to the cleaners. And I disagree about the midfield bit. Carrick was such an anonymity against Fellaini that the latter either was able to take the ball on his chest or head the ball perfectly to his team mates. It's not as if Carrick put him under pressure and it gave other midfielders a chance to get a foot in. Fellaini had complete control over what he was doing.

But as I said, Carrick can't be blamed. He is a bit of a timid player. He's not going to change that overnight for one game.

Under absolutely no pressure. That is the part that baffled me. We're not talking dogged backtracking last ditch headers. It's as though everybody just stood off Fellaini in the opening exchanges and he decided 'well.. Nobody is challenging me I am going to just bring the ball down.'

It continued throughout the game. It was utterly ridiculous. He made everyone look incompetent with their head bar Vidic. But I suppose that is what happens when your most imposing midfielder is playing in Central Defence.. Wait a minute.. That doesn't make sense?...
 
I'm sorry but I really dislike Carrick. I just don't feel he is good enough for MU.

Am I alone?
 
I'm sorry but I really dislike Carrick. I just don't feel he is good enough for MU.

Am I alone?

Yes. You are. If anything, this game reinforced just how much Carrick needed to be in midfield, winning the second balls from Fellaini's chest-downs rather than in defence trying to have some physical battle with him

Carrick is our best midfielder. Get used to it.
 
We didn't have to play him and Valencia on the same side of defence when Vidic is comfortable either side. In fact, we didn't have to play Valencia in defence at all. We just decided to, because for some reason we seem to think we're so great we'll get away with it.

Also, is ther no one else at all who can pretend to fill in at centreback other than Carrick? I mean, I know he reads the game well, but on the other hand, when it comes to stepping up to his actual responsabilities in that position, he's utterly pathetic, which makes the reading of the game somewhat pointless. Would a young player get further chances to play there if they hid away from trying to do their job?

Everton just went at him and Valencia again and again in the first half, and Carrick was literally trying to hide behind team mates while Valencia clearly had no fecking idea what he was doing.

Meanwhile, Rafael sat on the bench fiddling about with his thumbs.
 
We didn't have to play him and Valencia on the same side of defence when Vidic is comfortable either side. In fact, we didn't have to play Valencia in defence at all. We just decided to, because for some reason we seem to think we're so great we'll get away with it.

Also, is ther no one else at all who can pretend to fill in at centreback other than Carrick? I mean, I know he reads the game well, but on the other hand, when it comes to stepping up to his actual responsabilities in that position, he's utterly pathetic, which makes the reading of the game somewhat pointless. Would a young player get further chances to play there if they hid away from trying to do their job?

Everton just went at him and Valencia again and again in the first half, and Carrick was literally trying to hide behind team mates while Valencia clearly had no fecking idea what he was doing.

Meanwhile, Rafael sat on the bench fiddling about with his thumbs.

Like who? The choices seemed to be limited to him or Wooton (or one of the other kids).
 
We didn't have to play him and Valencia on the same side of defence when Vidic is comfortable either side. In fact, we didn't have to play Valencia in defence at all. We just decided to, because for some reason we seem to think we're so great we'll get away with it.

Also, is ther no one else at all who can pretend to fill in at centreback other than Carrick? I mean, I know he reads the game well, but on the other hand, when it comes to stepping up to his actual responsabilities in that position, he's utterly pathetic, which makes the reading of the game somewhat pointless. Would a young player get further chances to play there if they hid away from trying to do their job?

Everton just went at him and Valencia again and again in the first half, and Carrick was literally trying to hide behind team mates while Valencia clearly had no fecking idea what he was doing.

Meanwhile, Rafael sat on the bench fiddling about with his thumbs.

No Jamie Redknapp, he wasn't.
 
Like who? The choices seemed to be limited to him or Wooton (or one of the other kids).

Id have prefered a kid to be honest. What's the point in playing someone in a position if they're going to be too much of a coward to play in that position?

Not that it was all down to Carrick...we shouldn't have played him and Valencia next to each other. Why the feck do we think we can get away with doing something like that in a tough away game? Could City get away with shoving a midfielder at fullback when they've already got a midfielder next to him at centreback?

Also, we did nothing to compensate in other areas of the pitch. Our midfield was too slow (again), and kept fannying around in the middle of the pitch when we had room out wide on the break. Scholes got booked and then kept shirking out of challenges/interceptions, and seemed to be the only one in that area of the pitch with any presence at all.

Nani and Rooney looked nowhere near the pace of the game.
 
Id have prefered a kid to be honest. What's the point in playing someone in a position if they're going to be too much of a coward to play in that position?

Not that it was all down to Carrick...we shouldn't have played him and Valencia next to each other. Why the feck do we think we can get away with doing something like that in a tough away game? Could City get away with shoving a midfielder at fullback when they've already got a midfielder next to him at centreback?

Also, we did nothing to compensate in other areas of the pitch. Our midfield was too slow (again), and kept fannying around in the middle of the pitch when we had room out wide on the break. Scholes got booked and then kept shirking out of challenges/interceptions, and seemed to be the only one in that area of the pitch with any presence at all.

Nani and Rooney looked nowhere near the pace of the game.

There were some shocking performances no doubt, but I'd excuse the bloke playing out of position due to injuries.
 
Id have prefered a kid to be honest. What's the point in playing someone in a position if they're going to be too much of a coward to play in that position?

Not that it was all down to Carrick...we shouldn't have played him and Valencia next to each other. Why the feck do we think we can get away with doing something like that in a tough away game? Could City get away with shoving a midfielder at fullback when they've already got a midfielder next to him at centreback?

Also, we did nothing to compensate in other areas of the pitch. Our midfield was too slow (again), and kept fannying around in the middle of the pitch when we had room out wide on the break. Scholes got booked and then kept shirking out of challenges/interceptions, and seemed to be the only one in that area of the pitch with any presence at all.

Nani and Rooney looked nowhere near the pace of the game.

'Coward' is extraordinarily harsh. Carrick isn't, nor was he ever, an aggressive player. His strengths as you have mentioned lie elsewhere. But I'm sure the decision to play him ahead of a kid who plays CB was based on his experience at this level being enough to get him through. And if Fellaini hadn't had the game of his life it might well have done. Or if the players you mentioned (or others) had been on their games.

It was just a rough day at the office. I don't think there's a lot you can read into it.
 
we missed him sorely in the middle today, as it was attack after attack. we should get an oldie backup defender, someone with a good injury record, as backup to Jones, Evans, Rio and Smalling.

someone who is good enough but willing to sit on the bench when needed, but experienced.
 
'Coward' is extraordinarily harsh. Carrick isn't, nor was he ever, an aggressive player. His strengths as you have mentioned lie elsewhere. But I'm sure the decision to play him ahead of a kid who plays CB was based on his experience at this level being enough to get him through. And if Fellaini hadn't had the game of his life it might well have done. Or if the players you mentioned (or others) had been on their games.

Is it really that hard to just arc up and get stuck in? I know he's not aggressive but this lack of aggression can show as a weakness in his game.

It's like saying a player is not an attacking fullback. It doesn't mean they spend the entire game camped next to the CB. Carrick really does need to grow a pair of balls if he is going to play as a CB in this system.

There is just no room for error the way we are set up at the moment.
 
I'm sorry but I really dislike Carrick. I just don't feel he is good enough for MU.

Am I alone?

Given your comments about Carrick, I assume you are blind, so can understand why you'd need to ask that.
 
Carrick isn't strong in the air. He isn't exactly weak, but he's not going to be able to beat strikers who are very good in the air to important balls. Nor should we expect him to.

The first thing I thought when the Rio injury was confirmed is that Fellaini would score a header with Carrick defending him from a set piece, it's just too obvious, it happens to Carrick nearly every time he plays at center back, the other team put their best header of the ball on Carrick and eventually get their goal.

In such a situation if Carrick really is a better option than Wootton or M. Keane, then we need to score at least 2 goals.
 
Carrick isn't strong in the air. He isn't exactly weak, but he's not going to be able to beat strikers who are very good in the air to important balls. Nor should we expect him to.

Then why is he playing CB? I agree that he's not strong in the air but I disagree he's actually horrible in the air and especially marking tightly.

If he's playing at CB then he should be expected to be good in the air. Even if one of the other padawans are in there you're not going to be saying. 'Oh he's a young'n I am not expecting him to be good in the air' you'd be saying 'fecking come on son. Puff out your chest and show what you're worth.'

I think Carrick is getting away with being very poor at tight marking and quite poor at attacking headers here personally. But the quicker we get him back into that midfield the better. For the whole team, not just the defense.
 
Who else would you have put there ghali? Kinda shaky handing Wootton his debut against Fellaini. I reckon if Ferdinand were fit he wouldn't have coped much better. The way Fellaini batters players physically Rio wouldn't be able to defend 100% as he hasn't been that way for a long time.

The faults in the game lied with the attack. The defense did as well as they could with two midfielders in defense and Scholes + Cleverley (who isn't exactly a tactical mastermind when the opposing team has the ball) in front of them. Vidic kept Jelavic quiet and Evra didn't have to do nearly as much defending as Valencia. In hindsight perhaps it would have been better having Vidic on the right side.