Bullshit. He just lacked a proper partner. His quality has been apparent for almost the entire time with us.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
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Bullshit. He just lacked a proper partner. His quality has been apparent for almost the entire time with us.
Well I criticised him at the time. I dont mind putting my hands up to say fair fecks to ya Carrick, you've pulled it round. It needed doing though.
Last couple of months Valencia has been fantastic but thought he was very poor for large part of the season so couldn't put him player of the season at the moment maybe if he keeps it up untill may though. Could also say similar for Carrick he wasn't poor but for some reason I still can't get my head around he wasn't given a start in the league for about the first 11 games I would have to say he has been our best player but he is also a player I have defended always said he never needed replacing in our midfield he just needs the right players in there to get the best out of his game.
Lulz. I love this. The same thing always happens.
- Most posters are completely over-critical of a player, want him replaced, being completely hyperbolic about his form.
- Certain posters defend him, point out that he's not been playing that bad, and has the quality to succeed.
- Player shows that that's true.
- "Oh well he was shit, you're an idiot for saying I told you so just 'cos he's playing better".
See Berbatov, Carrick, Evans. See De Gea by next year. Happy to say I've defended them all.
I'd also like to see a time pointed out where Carrick was "completely ineffectual". He's always been defensively effective, bar the odd mistake, it's the drive and ambitious passing that he adds when his confidence is up.
Fixed.
I've always been a fan of Carrick, so much so that I was a bit disappointed when we signed Hargo because I thought it meant Carrick wouldn't get as much game time. Glad to hear he's extended his contract with us, he's got a wealth of experience and has been one of the players who has really stepped up his game to keep the team ticking over during our season-long injury crisis.
Yep, this is exactly how I feel about Carrick. Even when out of form he still offers great defensive stability, just lacks the tools to be a real threat offensively. He was still always very good at reading the game, making interceptions, and retaining possession. He basically lacked a sense of adventure going forward and that's why most people were so critical of him.
Are people seriously doing the whole "We were right to slate him!" schtick now that he's having his renaissance?
Some of us advocate the notion that class is permanent... hence why it's funny to say "sell Giggs".
Some of us advocate the notion that class is permanent... hence why it's funny to say "sell Giggs".
So we can't criticise players when they play badly then? Yeah you get the odd nutter in here, but most of the posters on the Caf are reasonable people. For example, here are some of my comments on Carrick from this thread
How is any of that kneejerkish?
How is any of that kneejerkish?
There's a big difference between criticising a player and wanting to sell a player. Or at least their should be. And it's not like Carrick wasn't showing form around the time people wanted him sold, he was just after controlling the game against the second best side in the league home and away and people just ignored it to suit their agenda...
I still don't understand how people can call him ineffectual, he's started 35+ games in every season he's been here. If he was that bad he wouldn't have been in the team so often, surely. And he would have been sold instead of given a new contract.
So we can't criticise players when they play badly then? Yeah you get the odd nutter in here, but most of the posters on the Caf are reasonable people. For example, here are some of my comments on Carrick from this thread
How is any of that kneejerkish?
Dunno about "kneejerkish" but some of it is plain stupid. The bit about a boulder, for starters.
Carrick was always good, and has done his job to a tee for most of the period posters on here used him as a scapegoat and wanted him replaced. He has always shielded the defense superbly and made sure our team has a clear shape and defensive stability.
The thing he lacked in the period of his supposed "poor form" was a player in an advanced position so he had other options than the sideways passing he was slated for. Now he has Rooney wanting the ball from that position ahead of him. He always had the ability to play as he does now, but lacked the proper partner or system. There is a difference between seeing this as the problem and believing that its simply been a matter of him being in supposedly "poor form", when that was never the case.
Carrick adds the same things he has always done. His form might be a bit better, but its much more a case of the system being more suited to bringing out the best of him. Thats why its ridiculous to claim that you were right in seeing that he "used to be ineffective".
The thing he lacked in the period of his supposed "poor form" was a player in an advanced position so he had other options than the sideways passing he was slated for. Now he has Rooney wanting the ball from that position ahead of him. He always had the ability to play as he does now, but lacked the proper partner or system. There is a difference between seeing this as the problem and believing that its simply been a matter of him being in supposedly "poor form", when that was never the case.
Carrick adds the same things he has always done. His form might be a bit better, but its much more a case of the system being more suited to bringing out the best of him. Thats why its ridiculous to claim that you were right in seeing that he "used to be ineffective".
Yeah I agree that Rooney playing where he is does make a big difference. Not just for carrick but the other midfielders too. However I think it's still fair to say that whilst carrick in previous seasons has always been a reliable shield he hasn't always done enough in games, and for me started to take a back seat to his other midfield partner be it scholes or fletcher. For a player of his ability and a first choice midfielder at this club he could have done more. I've always thought he had a confidence issue. He seems to be overcoming it and showing how good he really is, which is brilliant for him and us.
Carrick has definately improved this season. That's not to say he was shit before, but fans were right to question his form and rightfully expect more from him. His performances have recieved such plaudits this season precisely because of the contrast to last. He isnt being widely praised because fans have suddenly developed a new sense of appreciation for a Carrick-type player, and that those on here who never criticised him were right all along. He's geneuinely improved, so is getting the recognition his good form deserves.
Theon, haven't seen you in a while.
Yeah I agree in that his performances have improved. But I think he got a lot of unfair stick in previous seasons and was taken for granted at times. I think this season has highlighted more than ever what the difference is between having real midfielders, and stable partnerships makes in a team. I think people have noticed more what carrick brings to the team just from a defensive point of view let alone what he's been doing outside of that, and he's been doing the defensive side all his time here, but probably not received all the recognition for it he should have. As you know better than most I've always said that our midfield is much better than people think, if we can just get them fit.
I think it's quite obvious by now that a considerable amount of people on the caf are only able to appreciate Carrick's attacking traits. He's always provided the team with great shape and mobility but those are traits that go unnoticed.
Carrick has put in bad performances, sometimes in subsequent games but I've always thought he was one of the most consistent performers and the length of his 'bad' form was terribly overstated.
Carrick has put in bad performances, sometimes in subsequent games but I've always thought he was one of the most consistent performers and the length of his 'bad' form was terribly overstated.
Aye, but you're an eternal optimist Ash!
Defensively I actually think is where he's improved the most. He's always been exceptional positionally in defense, breaking up play and making interceptions. But that came at the expense of closing down and making tackles I thought, he would remain disciplined and not get 'stuck in' etc. Alot of fans crticised this as being lightweight, which was a fair accusation to throw at Carrick and when you consider that many fans would compare him to Keane, unfavouravly, this stand-off approach to defending wasn't attractive. It annoyed me at times to be honest, it seemed like he lacked the determination or mentality to win the ball and given his quiet nature a lot of people took this as being weak etc. This seasons been completely different, granted his passing has improved but it's his attitude change which has impressed me most, he's made the most tackles per games than any other player bar Rafael, and predictably has the highest interceptions per game.
Whether his closing down is a result of tactical instruction or a new attitude by Carrick I'm not sure, but he's putting himself about far more frequently and winning the ball all over the pitch. In addition this hasnt come at the expense of positional indiscipline and so he's consequently still shielding the defence and making interceptions. So I agree there was great defensive work done before, but there has been some clear improvements.
Then of course theres the passing improvements, which havent been consistent in my view. He'll play a much more expansive game one week and then revert in other games, or not do it to the same extent. I'd be happy for his pass completion rate to drop into the 80%'s if he maintained his more direct passing at times, because he has the ability to pull in off.
He's probably player of the year so far, him or Evans for me who I thinks been remarkable this season given the defensive injuries.
I felt that Carrick was somewhere between mediocre and poor for 2.5 seasons. Obviously not every single game or even every single month, but on balance I felt that as fans we should expect a lot more from our main central midfielder than we got for an extended period.
Fergie's "fantastic player", can mean anything from "backup player who will contribute positively 10-15 games a season" to Cristiano Ronaldo at his peak.
He was hardly going to come out and say "If there was a player available at a bargain price who could replace him during his current lengthy poor spell of form he'd have been consigned to the bench".
Again I felt that he was particularly poor for one season, whilst being somewhere between not quite good enough and just about good enough on the whole for at least another season-1.5 (again not game by game or even month by month, but on the whole).
Personally I also felt that during this mediocre at best stage (particularly toward the mid part of last season) he was never going to return to being a real asset to us. Particularly as he was 29 years old and in my opinion hadn't shown the qualities that he was primarily purchased for on a consistent basis since 2008-2009. At this point in his career he should have been leading by example, but instead looked like a scared teenager often when he came up against real pressure administered by quality (and sometimes pressure administered by donkeys). The lack of any real backbone was more than worrying.
It was for this reason that me, along with the majority of United fans I spoke to thought he should be used as a squad player in slower paced games when he was more effective, whilst we brought in a different player to fill the obvious gap in central midfield.
I'm delighted to admit that he has had an unbelievable resurgence this season and has been one of our top 2-3 performers. It has saved us at least £20m and has in my opinion not only paid off any faith Fergie gave him, but also got Fergie out of jail in terms of neglecting central midfield this Summer.
Also I doubt many people would argue with his contribution 06-08.
Let's get realistic. Carrick has looked good this season but has looked poor for the last two. I can't believe the amount of "class is permanent" type posts we are getting when last summer a lot of people wanted him sold, and pretty much everyone agreed (and still do) that we needed to strengthen central midfield.
Carrick has his role to play and whilst he also relies on having a good partner in the middle, and in a 4-4-2 we can't afford the luxury players like sneijder and nasri in the middle, Carrick was never exactly setting the world alight even within his more limited role in the side. He was in poor form, he is now in good form, not really much cause for debate is it?
Carrick has his role to play and whilst he also relies on having a good partner in the middle, and in a 4-4-2 we can't afford the luxury players like sneijder and nasri in the middle, Carrick was never exactly setting the world alight even within his more limited role in the side. He was in poor form, he is now in good form, not really much cause for debate is it?
Ah yeah, that was an interesting moment.
Yeah he has picked up a bit defensively, as you say he's a bit more forceful. But I do think he was doing a lot of this in the past but because people were obsessed with what each of our midfielders was doing attackingly it often got overlooked.
His passing has definitely picked up and I think this goes back to his confidence. Too often in the past I think he was content to sit back and play it simple when he should have been doing a lot more. As you said he's got the range and the vision. I reckon going in to this season he's realised that he needs to be doing more and he's finally showing his full capabilities much more frequently.
As I've said to you before I think having Rooney where he is though, having that link makes a big difference in how much our midfielders can get forward and we're looking much better for it.
Def agree that he's been our best player so far this season.
I'd actually say that his ability to control a game is where he's improved the most. He was always decent at it, but never really anything more than just decent. He couldn't simply walk into any game against most opposition teams in the league and dictate the tempo for us.
This season though, he has been able to do that and it's been one of the most impressive aspects of his game. He has been controlling the tempo against a wide variety of opposition: even against some of the tougher opponents in the league.
This season though, he has been able to do that and it's been one of the most impressive aspects of his game. He has been controlling the tempo against a wide variety of opposition: even against some of the tougher opponents in the league.
/thread
The criticism of Carrick all stems from losing 2 finals to Barca and Carrick taking a while to play into form after an injury.
And this is all ridiculous.
Fergie and the coaching staff got it all wrong tactically in both games. Playing 2 forwards was suicide. Carrick was outnumbered and could do nothing.
Every other midfield that Carrick has faced in Europe, Carrick has pissed on.
And this is all ridiculous.
Fergie and the coaching staff got it all wrong tactically in both games. Playing 2 forwards was suicide. Carrick was outnumbered and could do nothing.
Every other midfield that Carrick has faced in Europe, Carrick has pissed on.
Carrick tends to get "overrun" when the other team plays a high-tempo, pressing game. He's been great the past few weeks, and deserves all the plaudits he's been getting, but I'm wondering what will happen when we next face such a team.
In any case, wonderful to see him back to form, he's played a huge part in getting us back into the title race.
In any case, wonderful to see him back to form, he's played a huge part in getting us back into the title race.
As a monumental Carrick fan and one of the biggest contributors to this thread, I'd like to have my say.
Those who criticised his form at points over the last couple of years were right to do so. Carrick's performance levels weren't up to the level he's capable of. You only need to see his form now to realise this.
However, it is the severity of the criticism that was wrong in most quarters; people calling for him to be sold were ridiculous.
At his best, as he is now, he's one of the best in the world.
Those who criticised his form at points over the last couple of years were right to do so. Carrick's performance levels weren't up to the level he's capable of. You only need to see his form now to realise this.
However, it is the severity of the criticism that was wrong in most quarters; people calling for him to be sold were ridiculous.
At his best, as he is now, he's one of the best in the world.
Oh and the whole 'he struggles when pressed' argument is bollocks - basically a couple of matches vs Barca - second of which he was one of the better players and first of which he was one of many poor performances.
Sorry, DFreshKing closed the thread for further comment.
Jurors, you will dismiss this testimony.
Dunno what the argument is here because I can't really be bothered to go back and read beyond this page, but are people suggesting that Carrick didn't in fact go through a prolonged spell of awful form?
He was (rightly) criticised by United fans because he was playing way below the standards he set for himself during his first few seasons at Old Trafford. Sure, he usually adds something to the team, even on his off days, but his form was pretty much shite up until about October. Are people disputing this?
Since then, he's looked like the Carrick of old and, once again, actually appears to possess set of bollocks, playing with drive and attempting passes that he was shying away from just a few months ago.
He was (rightly) criticised by United fans because he was playing way below the standards he set for himself during his first few seasons at Old Trafford. Sure, he usually adds something to the team, even on his off days, but his form was pretty much shite up until about October. Are people disputing this?
Since then, he's looked like the Carrick of old and, once again, actually appears to possess set of bollocks, playing with drive and attempting passes that he was shying away from just a few months ago.
No mate, the joke is on the muppets that were "gutted" he signed a contract extension and wanted him sold, not the people who thought he suffered a couple of blips in form.
You cant say he has always been great defensively, therefore any criticism of him has been unwarranted. He's not there just to shield the defence. He's a midfielder ffs. They have to help us attack the other team, as well as help us break up their play.
Please dont rewrite history. I havent seen a single Carrick 'critic' not state how happy they are that he's playing great. If posters hated the player and not his form then he would still be getting stick no matter what.
Please dont rewrite history. I havent seen a single Carrick 'critic' not state how happy they are that he's playing great. If posters hated the player and not his form then he would still be getting stick no matter what.
Not really, it's nigh on impossible to give him stick because he's been almost faultless and our best player since December. You'd have to be unbelievably thick to do so.
Ahh fair enough.
Well considering that there are some absolutely shite United fans on here that doesn't exactly surprise me...
Having said that, his form had been mediocre for so long that he started the season behind Anderson, Cleverley and possibly Fletcher in the pecking order - and deservedly so - so I'd say it was more than a few blips in form, as you put it. Still, fair play to him for showing fight and and finding his feet again. He's clearly our most important midfielder when he's in this sort of form.
Everyone should be glad he's back enjoying his football and playing confidently because, well, whenever Carrick plays well the rest of the team seems to follow suit.
Yet he finished the previous season playing superbly in centre mid alongside Giggs so that kinda shits in the face of that argument.
Well yeah, I'll give you that one, those 2 looked good together, especially in Europe, but I still say that Carrick wasn't showing the kind of form he had in his first 2/3 seasons, or indeed the kind of form he's showing right now.
Right now he's playing superbly, last season he was pretty much just going through the motions and continuing to look a bit short on confidence. Hardly a controversial argument, no?
Anyway, I haven't got any stats available to verify this, but he was benched for a few games at the beginning of the season wasn't he? Hence behind the others in the pecking order...
I think he was superb at the tail end of last season, playing just as well as he is now. Earlier on in the season he had a slump for sure.
Well it wasn't down to poor form, as you agree yourself, he played very well at the tail end of last season with Giggs.
It was probably more due to the following that has been posted on numerous occasions in this thread:
SAF on Carrick in 2009.
OK, well let's just agree to disagree, I don't think either of us are gonna change each other's minds.
What?
But we agree don't we? You said he started the season 3rd or 4th choice due to poor form, but then you agreed that he finished the season in good form?
What are we disagreeing on?
Yes. His first game of the season was against City in the Charity Shield, we dominated and he played well. His first league game was against Bolton and the same happened. Other than that he played against Benfica, Basel, Leeds and Chelsea up until October. He played well against Benfica, was a centre back against Leeds and played 30 mins against Chelsea (and iirc he did nothing wrong there). He was influential going forward against Basel but wasn't his usual self defensively, just like every other player that day really.
So if you want to be critical, one poor game and one mediocre game at worst...pretty much shite indeed.
I agree that Carrick is mint.
And I disagree with anyone who ever suggested he should be sold.
And I disagree with anyone who ever suggested he should be sold.