Ajax - Man Utd | EL Final Build-up Thread

[el3mel]

TBH, I'm starting to think this Ajax is starting to be a bit overrated due to their 4-1 win over Lyon. It seems any young side who scores a lot of goals will take so much hype these days.

They're good team but definitely not Barcelona.

 

[Sunny Jim]

They barely beat Legia Warsaw over two legs, that speaks volume about their quality.

 

[Moiraine]

Ajax results this season in Europe.

2016–17 Champions League 3rd Qualifying Round

Greece PAOK 1–1, 2–1 20.6
Play-off Round

Russia FC Rostov 1–1, 1–4
2016–17 Europa League Group stage

Greece Panathinaikos F.C. 2–1, 2–0

Belgium Standard Liege 1–0, 1–1

Spain Celta de Vigo 2–2, 3–2

Round of 32

Poland Legia Warszawa 0–0, 1–0
Round of 16

Denmark FC København 1–2, 2–0
Quarterfinals

Germany FC Schalke 04 2–0, 2–3
Semifinals

France Olympique Lyonnais 4–1, 1–3

I think form guide is a bit irrelevant in a Final, especially after the experience of EFL Cup.

Southampton's form leading upto the final, was:-

Sunderland 0-4 Southampton (Prem)
Southampton 1-3 Westham (Prem)
Swansea 2-1 Southampton (Prem)
Southampton 0-5 Arsenal (FA Cup)
Liverpool 0-1 Southampton (EFL Semi)

But they battered us and quite honestly, we were lucky to win the final. Lets not make too many assumptions and wait and see who turns up on the day. If we play to our full potential, we will win it.

 

[Dante]

They'll be at their best and we'll be at our best. That's the bottom line. I'd ignore everything else, because both teams will be fully focused and fully rested.

I'm confident we'll win.

 

[3KDré]

I will be furious if we lose in honesty.

 

[kopviolator]

They barely beat Legia Warsaw over two legs, that speaks volume about their quality.

Maybe. But we barely beat Anderlecht over two legs so our quality is not that special either. In any case, it's a final - a one off. Anything can happen.

 

[Dante]

But this isn't like Anderlecht. And it's not just a one-off.

We've been preparing for this one game for weeks, and we won't be mired in fixture congestion like we were earlier in the competition. This is an almost unique match where both sides will be more ready than they've ever been before.

The team with the better quality is going to be the favourite in a way that you wouldn't get for a normal final. Thankfully, that's United.

One thing's for sure, though. I'm more confident with Mourinho as manager than just about anybody else in world football.

 

[Heista]

I think comments like 'United always play bad' and 'Ajax's laundry lady has better positional awareness than Paul Pogba' to be either stupid or a WUM.

I opted for WUM as don't think anyone can be that much of an idiot unless you think otherwise?

I must admit I dont know why some people always need sharp edges around their opinions. People will miss the message and counter the sharp edges.

I understand your reaction as yesterday I replied to somebody who was winding me up as well in this thread.

As an Ajax fan I can only see one option not happening this game and that is that United will lose easily.
I think United can have an easy game.
I think Ajax can make it tough on United.
I think Ajax can win it.

There's so many factors that can play a role, that it's just baffling to see some fans here believe they will get an easy win, even if it is an option.
- Ajax youthfulness, naivity or fearlessness
- Ajax already out of competition, rested or too much time in between.
- United able to rest players, letting the competition down, not gaining momentum.
- United risking to play players in coming matches.
- Will Ajax pressing work?
- Will United try to dominate the match, Ajax are comfortbale to counter.
- Will United leave the ball to Ajax, we are comfortable with posession.

And thats just leaving out chance and the referee.

All in all it makes an interesting match and as I like United and am a fan of Ajax, I just hope we can be respectful of eachothers club.

We will never be the giants we once were, but our (I know people dont like the word here) philosophy, our willingness to try youth and our history should earn that at least.

 

[Heista]

TBH, I'm starting to think this Ajax is starting to be a bit overrated due to their 4-1 win over Lyon. It seems any young side who scores a lot of goals will take so much hype these days.

They're good team but definitely not Barcelona.

I hardly see any overrating here...
There's maybe 3 people here expecting a win for Ajax.

But besides that, did you even watch the highlights of Ajax vs Schalke and Ajax vs Lyon and their returns? If not, how can you say they are overrated and hyped? And if you did, what is your own opinion?

 

[AdNani]

---------------------------------Romero--------------------------------------
Valencia----------Smalling--------Jones----------------Darmian
----------------------Herrera---------------Pogba------------------------
Mkhitaryan----------------Mata---------------------------------Martial
--------------------------------------Rashford--------------------------------

Is the line up i hope to see, we've simply got better players than them, just go out and be bold and win the fecking thing.

More likely well see lingard than Martial though.

 

[el3mel]

I hardly see any overrating here...
There's maybe 3 people here expecting a win for Ajax.

But besides that, did you even watch the highlights of Ajax vs Schalke and Ajax vs Lyon and their returns? If not, how can you say they are overrated and hyped? And if you did, what is your own opinion?

I'm not saying they are bad either. They are a good team, but they aren't Barcelona. I don't think anyone was giving them much attention till that win over Lyon I think.

United are still the favorites to win and any other result will be a surprise.

 

[TheReligion]

---------------------------------Romero--------------------------------------
Valencia----------Smalling--------Jones----------------Darmian
----------------------Herrera---------------Pogba------------------------
Mkhitaryan----------------Mata---------------------------------Martial
--------------------------------------Rashford--------------------------------

Is the line up improve to see, we've simply got better players than them, just go out and be bold and win the fecking thing.

More likely well see lingard than Martial though.

Id play Blind over Smalling but yes like Mata in the top of a midfield three

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I just want to fast forward to this game now.

 

[Water Melon]

They barely beat Legia Warsaw over two legs, that speaks volume about their quality.

There were so many games this season, when we did not even barely beat much much weaker teams. There were games where we did not convert a single chance out of 10 clear cut ones. We had Ibra, Rojo, Bailly during those games. And we were extremely lucky not to concede a sucker punch against Celta at OT. It is a final, and while United are clear favourites, one deflection can decide it all.

 

[peridigm]

Id play Blind over Smalling but yes like Mata in the top of a midfield three

It will be Smalling and Blind unless Jose decides to use Blind at LB over Darmian. Have we seen Blind and Jones partner at CB? I think we've seen every pairing except those two. Too late to tinker with it now.

 

[pocco]

TBH, I'm starting to think this Ajax is starting to be a bit overrated due to their 4-1 win over Lyon. It seems any young side who scores a lot of goals will take so much hype these days.

They're good team but definitely not Barcelona.

This is whats happening I think.

I've heard on here that every team we have played in the last 3 or 4 rounds could beat us and how people are nervous. In the end the quality of opposition that we have faced hasn't really got any better. Nobody mentions the aecond leg result of the Ajax vs Lyon fixture. I heard before that tie that Ajax were not as good away from home and that turned out to be the case, they almost let a great lead get overturned! We absolutely should be winning this no matter how crap we've been. We have more experienced and talented players and a great manager.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Fellaini is definitely starting this game and proably deseves to tbh.

 

[Blind]

I think it's worth mentioning Ajax's bench, they have players like Kluivert and Nouri who can really make a difference. Not ideal for a tiring defence who can't defend a lead.

 

[Zii]

Just win it. I don't care if aliens appear and score for us, just fecking win it or this forum and the fanbase will explode Beyond anything Arsenal fan TV has seen.

There will be blud.

 

[Womp]

Just win it. I don't get if aliens appear and score for us, just fecking win it or this forum and the fanbase will explode Beyond anything Arsenal fan TV has seen.

There will be blud.

This place is depressing as feck when we win, can't imagine it if we lose the final

 

[el3mel]

This place is depressing as feck when we win, can't imagine it if we lose the final

If we lose, I think I'll take a break from the forum for some week as it will be unbearable

 

[Android1974]

I think he will like to throw ajax off their game. Just like conte had no answer to his tactics. Peter Bosz is known to play one way and one way only that is his way. He doesnt change his way to his opponents. That is why jose will maybe put a change in. I remember him playing defenders in midfield at real, also inter he used eto on the left. Pretty sure there will be some surprise. I think we might see-
---------Romero---------------
---Jones--Carrick----Blind----
Valencia---------------------Darmian
-------Herrera----Pogba--------------
------------Fellaini--------------------
------Rashford----Lingard------------

The chelsea formation basically with maybe carrick /smalling as the players interchangeable. I would play martial ahead of Lingard(championship level player who scores in finals) but i think jose will go for this. Safety from Ajax attacks and then pace upfront.

He put center-backs in midfield (like Tuanzebe against Tottenham) when he was facing teams superior or at least offensively superior to his, namely that Barcelona. Not Ajax, for C… sake! He's a reactive manager and tends to exaggerate the caution, specially when in fitness inferiority with all the games and few players fit we had, but not in a situation like this. It would be so disappoint, can't see it really.

 

[Android1974]

I don't really get that, history is history otherwise he woulda said biggest game in years or biggest game of the season would he not ?

Seems a lot of you Reds are very very confident of winning this game

Not as confident as Klopp was of beating Sevilla, though. But yeah, confident because we're the better team. And we have a manager who usually wins the finals, instead of just the participation prize.

 

[beergod]

Would honestly start Darmian and Blind at CB right now

I'd say the same, but then I remember that someone has to play at LB.

 

[MullerUtd]

If we lose, I think I'll take a break from the forum for some week as it will be unbearable

If we lose to Ajax, this forum will most likely crash anyway.

 

[Heista]

This is whats happening I think.

I've heard on here that every team we have played in the last 3 or 4 rounds could beat us and how people are nervous. In the end the quality of opposition that we have faced hasn't really got any better. Nobody mentions the aecond leg result of the Ajax vs Lyon fixture. I heard before that tie that Ajax were not as good away from home and that turned out to be the case, they almost let a great lead get overturned! We absolutely should be winning this no matter how crap we've been. We have more experienced and talented players and a great manager.

Away at Schalke we defended a 2-0 lead. Which could have been 5-0 and nobody would have said the score would have been a wrong view of the game.

We got 2-0 behind. In extra time we got 3-0 behind and we were down to 10 men. We made it 3-2 and won. But yes. Nearly bottled it.

Away at Lyon we were far superior in the first half, but we conceded a very soft penalty (it wasnt a penalty) and were a bit off our game and conceded another goal in the last minute before half time.
Second half they scored a deflected header that went between legs of the goalie.
Referee could have and ahould have sent off two of their players but in the end we were down to 10 men. But we still managed to hold on and not concede the equaliser.

Thats what happened.
So even without people mentioning the returns, what is the hype you think is going on? Who is doing the hyping? Because theres really few people here expecting an Ajax win. Theres a little more people nervous and expecting a tough match. So what is hyping?

I'd call us better than Celta and better than Anderlecht but that doesnt mean the game will get tougher for United.

If anything I would say it's fairer to say that Unied is being hyped to expecting an easy win than that Ajax is being hyped to win it.

And saying the Lyon away game is not mentioned is a joke right? I see people here claiming an easy United win and not talking about your home games against Anderlecht and Celta.

I guess it's just what you wanna take outnof this thread.

I expect a tough match on both sides, with an uncomfortable win for United. Or is that hyping Ajax too much?

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Your winding yourself up :/

How else do you explain that pathetic post?

Lost the plot like a brat, you don't like people correcting you or putting you straight on your myopic posts.

How can I be put straight on this by TheRelligion who has no clue about the opposition? On a rainy wednesday night in Stoke it might be about the physical strength of Pogba and the tactical set up of that day. But it if it's all about the players and Mourinho's tactical genius, the fact that Anderlecht wasn't trashed but almost got through needs some explaining. When it comes to the positional game and fluency Ajax is on a different level from Anderlecht. The difference in quality between the players isn't that great either, but that's not the main problem United faces. If someone like TheReligion has no idea about the nature of the dangers United is facing, he's not in the position to be condescending about my footballing knowledge.

 

[finndt]

Fellaini is definitely starting this game and proably deseves to tbh.

That would be nerve wrecking. He gets booked early on and then you'll be sh'tting yourself watching him fouling and fouling again and again, ignoring the fact that he's on a yellow.

 

[Maradona10]

I know he is banned for transfer related news(well he doent pose direct info) but he is dead right on contracts.
That will be huge motivation for players and staff.

 

[strangeways]

That would be nerve wrecking. He gets booked early on and then you'll be sh'tting yourself watching him fouling and fouling again and again, ignoring the fact that he's on a yellow.

Yeah refs love booking him as well

 

[Ixion]

I know he is banned for transfer related news(well he doent pose direct info) but he is dead right on contracts.
That will be huge motivation for players and staff.

I'd like to think those things have no bearing on the player's motivation to win a game like this.

 

[Maradona10]

I do hope we can win "clean". I mean UEFA's integrity will be called into question if we get a dubious decision as we assure UEFA of lot of viewership and revenue. I am very sure they wont do anything and may go out of the way to insure ref is "fair". Also they might have an ulterior motive to keep us in Europa to increase viewership and importance of the competition that many dont give a feck about unless a big team is involved.

 

[Maradona10]

I'd like to think those things have no bearing on the player's motivation to win a game like this.

If you were told you'd win 2 million pounds if you won a match you would put in extra effort. I know winning trophies should be enough motivation but some players are motivated by money and i am sure their agents will let them know about the moolah.

 

[TheReligion]

How can I be put straight on this by TheRelligion who has no clue about the opposition? On a rainy wednesday night in Stoke it might be about the physical strength of Pogba and the tactical set up of that day. But it if it's all about the players and Mourinho's tactical genius, the fact that Anderlecht wasn't trashed but almost got through needs some explaining. When it comes to the positional game and fluency Ajax is on a different level from Anderlecht. The difference in quality between the players isn't that great either, but that's not the main problem United faces. If someone like TheReligion has no idea about the nature of the dangers United is facing, he's not in the position to be condescending about my footballing knowledge.

Does it not rain in Stockholm? Let's hope we get a storm so Pogba can unleash his strength on the Ajax midfield.

 

[cyberman]

How can I be put straight on this by TheRelligion who has no clue about the opposition? On a rainy wednesday night in Stoke it might be about the physical strength of Pogba and the tactical set up of that day. But it if it's all about the players and Mourinho's tactical genius, the fact that Anderlecht wasn't trashed but almost got through needs some explaining. When it comes to the positional game and fluency Ajax is on a different level from Anderlecht. The difference in quality between the players isn't that great either, but that's not the main problem United faces. If someone like TheReligion has no idea about the nature of the dangers United is facing, he's not in the position to be condescending about my footballing knowledge.

Have you seen the absolute nail biters Ajax have had in their second legs after taking healthy leads into them? Where does that fall into their tactical brilliance?

 

[Daley020]

Anyone who had seen them play on a regular basis... what kind of team are they like actually? What kind of playing style are they used to? How many international players have they got in their team? Who is their main striker/player? If you could pick a similar team in the premier league, who would it be?

I've seen every Ajax game this season so far and it is impressive to see how they adjusted their strategy compared to the last 4 seasons that Frank de Boer was coach.
Beginning of this season the new coach, Peter Bosz, convinced the whole team too learn a new playing style with extremely high pression and attacking football.

This means when they suffer ball loss, they have to put high pressure on the ball with the 5 nearest players and recapture the ball within 5 seconds. It is great to see the '5 second rule' work out so well this season, also against strong(er) opponents like Schalke and Lyon. They literally didn't knew what happened to them in their matches in Amsterdam.

When they lose the ball, within 5 seconds someone recaptures the ball or they have to make a (minor) offense.

All of the Ajax' staring 11 are internationals;

Goal:
GK - Onana; was 3rd keeper at Cameroon so decided to skip Africa Cup this year so he could mantain his #1 position in goal at Ajax.

Defence:
RB - Veltman; is international in Holland but didn't play very much as international because of the great season Feyenoords Karsdorp has.
CB - Sanchez; international of Columbia, played almost every quali game for them this year.
CB - De Ligt; only 17 and great potentional he was invited for a few matches. Made some slips that resulted in goals so after 2 games he was on the bench again.
LB - Riedewald; international for Holland but mostly on the bench.

Midfield:
CDM - Schöne; International for Denmark, always in starting 11.
CM - Klaassen; International for Holland, played every game this season.
CM - Ziyech; decided to choose Marocco over Holland but in clinch with coach of Marocco. Didn't play Africa Cup and whole nation was pissed for that.

Attack:
RW - Traoré; Burkina Faso international, played Africa Cup this year and was in Team of the Tournament.
ST - Dolberg; made his debut for the Denmark squad this year and played a few games because of his breakthrough at Ajax.
LW - Youness; German youth international hasn't made his debut for Die Mannschaft yet..

 

[AN17]

It's one thing to say Pogba has been underwhelming at times or United haven't been able to bring out his best in a disjoint XI that lack players complimenting/covering each other and another to question his footballing intelligence and awareness to a decent albeit inexperienced bunch of players at Ajax. If they were as intelligent and aware about game management and situation, they wouldn't have needed the last minute scrambling both at Schalke and Lyon after being comfortably ahead going into the second legs. Compare that to an underperforming United side fatigued by cramped fixtures who were never in a comfortable and well ahead position at any point yet managed to go through.

 

[podurban2]

@Daley020 Cheers for that info.

 

[NinjaZombie]

How can I be put straight on this by TheRelligion who has no clue about the opposition? On a rainy wednesday night in Stoke it might be about the physical strength of Pogba and the tactical set up of that day. But it if it's all about the players and Mourinho's tactical genius, the fact that Anderlecht wasn't trashed but almost got through needs some explaining. When it comes to the positional game and fluency Ajax is on a different level from Anderlecht. The difference in quality between the players isn't that great either, but that's not the main problem United faces. If someone like TheReligion has no idea about the nature of the dangers United is facing, he's not in the position to be condescending about my footballing knowledge.

I agree with the gist of your original post but the comments about the Ajax tea lady having more positional awareness than Pogba and your stating that we "always play bad" is what got you the reactions you're getting.

There is a way to put your point across without going into daft, tactless hyperbole.

 

[redsunited]

When our first choice midfield 3 is in place, we can beat or at least draw any pressing team. We can beat them in their own game with those 3 in getting the ball back and counter attacking. Whoever partnering Sanchez in CD will be the target of Rashford as the other player is in red card suspension.