Afghanistan
- Thread starter Sherzad
- Start date
I have spoken to a close family member who actually did 3 tours in Afghanistan and asked him whether he was surprised at the latest situation.
He had been based in the south end said that he was not at all surprised. Because it was very rural with mostly poppy farms. They were very poor and resented the destruction of their crops with little alternative and hated the soldiers.
The people of the south saw little or no benefit from the coalition forces.
He had been based in the south end said that he was not at all surprised. Because it was very rural with mostly poppy farms. They were very poor and resented the destruction of their crops with little alternative and hated the soldiers.
The people of the south saw little or no benefit from the coalition forces.
Do you really honestly thinks those in pentagon doesn't know about this? Any veteran generals worth their salt have predicted the outcome, even outsiders knew what's the likely outcome. For a nation who took pride on their intelligent and their #1 Military you'd think there'll be someone with a sane head reminding them about this back there.
They know it'll feck up, they know it'll take years and years to stabilize the country, that's exactly what they're after, a 20 years long war without end to profit.
It's about time the american masses do something about this endless warmongering while so many problems back home left unaddressed
Might surprise you to know that not everyone looks at this from an American viewpoint.
a miserable failure by the US armed forces and by their allies. What a bunch of irresponsible idiots. They have wasted 20 years of so many men and women - literally for nothing.
What a pointless, catastrophic war and loss of countless lives. The coalition went in there, fecked up the country and basically the whole region, pulls out and everything is as before. But people won't be bothered, as it's too far away for them to grasp what's actually happening there. I mean, no one talks about the war against Iraq anymore, even if it's well known nowadays that the US intelligence knew that these weapons of mass destruction never existed. People just don't care as long as it doesn't affect their lives.
Is it really only a failure of the military. Or a failure of the governments to try to ensure that the withdrawal of troops did not result in the total failure of those Afghan who they trained to be in a position to not capitulate so incredibly quickly.
Obviously the failure of those who make these decisions, be it governments or military. It's a failure by everyone involved.
Apparently the taliban have started to enter kabul mostly unchallenged...
A taliban delegation was with the Chinese government for talks a week or two ago...
Basically its over as far as I can see... probably a mostly peaceful surrender and hand over of power ... perhaps another saigon type ececuation
A taliban delegation was with the Chinese government for talks a week or two ago...
Basically its over as far as I can see... probably a mostly peaceful surrender and hand over of power ... perhaps another saigon type ececuation
Correct. They all knew that this was how it was going to end. As another OP said it is not that every Afghani is corrupt but when the Top is rotten and if you cannot get anything done without corruption then it becomes obligatory to do things that way or else nothing is done.
Would the Afghan Army had fought if better led? You bet they would. Why was it able for the Sri Lankan government to beat the LTTE? Main reason was they had the Political Will (They made it their biggest priority) and then installed military leaders who were competent and gave them the political support no matter what to finish the fighting. The Taliban never gets half as much support financially or logistically like the LTTE got.
Do you know how much money companies like Haliberton, Supreme Fuels, etc made out of this mission? Billions. This is a money spinning machine for lots of people. Money that American tax payers paid.
The comparisons with Saigon are being brought up in the news already!!
What a fecking mess, both the American Government and the UK government will have more blood on their hands after this.
Coming from Indonesia, it's not as simple as a good leader.
A good leader with 60% good people can do wonders, a Good leader leading 70% corrupt people won't get anywhere. They have to have a collective clean culture as a nation and that's the hard part.
It was not pointless to those profiting of this.
Yes, unfortunately, it was just all about the money. Nothing else, never was. What a shame those soldiers have been used for solely monetary interests. I doubt that's what they signed up for.
But nowadays George Bush is a funny and nice guy, because he's friends with the Obamas and cracks jokes at funerals. feck that guy in particular.
I know its the daily mail but fook me, having had a look at their comments on the afghan stories this morning. Most popular comments along the lines of how many taliban have made it onto our shores pretending to be refugees and all Afghans that are fleeing are cowards....
I am seeing videos of people rejoicing on social media and welcoming the Taliban. The joy on their faces seems to suggest a lot of support from the masses. It's not what's being reported in the Western Media. Over the last 20 years, only the corrupt, the elites and warlords have benefited from the billions spent/wasted.
The Afghan army has no conviction or desire to fight their own. It's of no surprise a group with very little training, not much in the way of logistical support or weapons can easily overrun the army and police. Whatever your opinions on the Taliban they have conviction in their beliefs and that conviction is leading them to take over again.
Going there was never a problem for me. It needed done and was a worthy cause. Much good was done. The problem was the execution. Isolationalism is never the answer.
Taliban propoganda showing happy people wanting them there after claiming to represent the majority for the last 8 years or so, who’d have thought????? The reason the western media don’t show that shit is because it’s not representative of the truth. People are fecking terrified and in panic. If they show resistance or unhappiness they can also be arrested or shot.
this whole ”taliban is merciful, the people love them” is bs. (On the whole)
Taliban propoganda showing happy people wanting them there after claiming to represent the majority for the last 8 years or so, who’d have thought????? The reason the western media don’t show that shit is because it’s not representative of the truth. People are fecking terrified and in panic. If they show resistance or unhappiness they can also be arrested or shot.
this whole ”taliban is merciful, the people love them” is bs. (On the whole)
I know of a person (UK) with absolutely no experience of security prior to going off to Afghanistan where he proceeded to open a security firm. He came back after a few years flush with money. Talking to him he confirmed it was as simple as sending invoices and money just dropped into his account. No questions were ever raised as to what he was securing or the amounts claimed.
Or perhaps the group that has been fighting since 2005~, has inflicted scary casualties on the coalition in that time requiring troop surges and then still inflicting more casualties - actually may have logistical support, weapons, and training, huge support from ISI and others as well as decades of being hardened for battle....
Really good video for anyone like myself who may not understand the basics behind why Afghanistan is so hard to conquer.
As one of the comments says, I learned more from that video than from anything I've seen in the news over the past 20 years combined.
I have always maintained there will be horrific crimes committed by the Taliban with no central command. There are also offshoots of the group, and crime gangs pretending to be Taliban. However, to say the Taliban are all nasty with no support from the masses is somewhat naive.
I am sure all sides will be busy with their PR machinery.
Representative of the truth.
What truth? Whose version of truth?
You think the western media has been representative of the whole Afghanistan issue? Compare what's happening today with all the previous lies about how they have things under control, it's obvious to me who's not telling the truth.
watching the news today and how fast the Taliban has taken over the country.
I have watched the news over the years, US and UK made a big deal about training Afghan forces, giving them equipment and how they had at one stage almost eradicated the Taliban.
US pulls out UK pulls out and the Taliban take over with weeks.
hat happened to all the training.
Like most, I only know what happens by way off the news, but it looks like that the Taliban roared and the Afghan security forces gave up and ran away, is that me just reading the situation wrong ?
I have watched the news over the years, US and UK made a big deal about training Afghan forces, giving them equipment and how they had at one stage almost eradicated the Taliban.
US pulls out UK pulls out and the Taliban take over with weeks.
hat happened to all the training.
Like most, I only know what happens by way off the news, but it looks like that the Taliban roared and the Afghan security forces gave up and ran away, is that me just reading the situation wrong ?
Presumably all that equipment is now with the taliban?
They never have the full support of the people.
If we're talking about forces the taliban persist 20 years against the best fighting machine out there with only ak47 and alot of heart.
Compared to how the US led afghanistan just drop down their weapon and welcome their liberator.
Fear of no fear people fight their oppressor since the dawn of history. Resistance and rebel with risk of slow death doesnt deter past rebellion.
Maybe the majority of afghanistan just doesnt want the US there and who can blame them
Of course they have support; but attempting to claim that people are rejoicing en masse is just rubbish. We don't need imposters to see how the Taliban treat women, traitors, non muslims, and various others they simply don't like. Nor do we need them [or western media] to see the absolute chaos and panic there. The same people as always will accept them, just as others revile them.
I'm less than 1 minute in and it's factually BS. It mixes cliches, half truths, and irrelevant BS to sound somewhat authoratitive. Pashtun tribes united to create Afghanistan in the first place.
Sky pretty much said this, Bagram Air Base has been handed over with a shed load of the stuff.
May be this is true.
US Officials and Biden must have known this would happen, the cynic in me says yes and he allowed it, so he could go in all guns blazing.
Russia will take control via proxy.
You can train soldiers, but you can’t guarantee their country pays them their wages on time, or that they are committed to actually fighting when their own lives are on the line or if their nation calls on them to defend the country. The Afghan Army always operated under the mindset that foreign forces would always be there to prevent failure. Once an announcement was made that foreign troops were leaving by a specific date, the Army knew the Taliban would simply plan accordingly, which made it much very hard to justify continuing to fight.
Your sentences literally make no sense when combined. I assume you're essentially saying that Afghanis all wanted the Taliban back to liberate them, and were just waiting for the Americans to leave, so they could welcome them back.
You go from "taliban persist 20 years with only ak47 and a lot of heart" (Untrue in every sense. Taliban Mk2 for all intents and purposes didn't exist pre2005. They have never been this poor untrained force people claim)
to : "Compared to how the US led afghanistan just drop down their weapon and welcome their liberator." which I assume refers to the Afghan army dropping their weapons to welcome their 'liberator' the Taliban. (Not going to start going into this, but yea, you are batshit if you think the Taliban is their liberator)
"Fear of no fear people fight their oppressor since the dawn of history. Resistance and rebel with risk of slow death doesnt deter past rebellion." (The oppressor being those tribes that oppose pashtuns? Enemies of the Durrani empires? Enemies of the Mughals? The USA? No idea what this even means.)
"Maybe the majority of afghanistan just doesnt want the US there and who can blame them" (The majority of Afghanistan isn't the Taliban, and the US aren't there regardless any more. They withdrew)
Cheers, now this I can understand.
It just seen like 20 years of US and UK interaction has been a total waste of time.
An expert on Sky News, says that all the Taliban want to do is grown all the Heron it can and sell to to everybody, its not that simple is it ?
20 years training the Afghan Army….50 years, 100 years heck even 1000 years
Doesn’t matter how long we’ve been helping to train their forces, It’s not the training…..it’s the deal being offered
The Taliban simply offer a better package than the Afghan Army for its fighters
with no American or UK forces present, the deal looks enticing and the Afghan Army soldiers will mostly take it
not all of them, but enough to see the Talibans rise be quick and easy
The Afghan government were very corrupt. Plenty of reports about them, from drug trafficking, to the army raping boys, incompetence, officials living in palaces and NATO paying Talibans not to attack them (Italians). I've read a Twitter of an ex worker who said she found it impossible to work with Kabul government due to the bribery and scamming involved and their treatment of women.
I suspect a lot of truths are going to come out.
It's been a problem for decades honestly, even locally. Goes like this in many many examples:
- US takes positions
- builds outposts for the Afghanis to hold, the ANSF move in.
- The Taliban conducting a whisper campaign that they were coming at x y time and day for a few weeks. Those found there will be defeated, executed and their family in danger. Those gone will be at no risk
- Afghanis abandon post
- US retakes position
Repeat...