After looking it up I know was a croqueta is. I didn't know there was a name for that, its my favourite move.
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I know it doesn't. I just don't agree with you about these two players.
Ability? Then its Mata. He's had a couple of bad games. He still has more ability than Januzaj. He's shown that for United.
He hasn't shown his ability for us and i doubt he will. When i say ability i'm talking about what the particular player brings to the team. What Adnan does and can do is more important.
Mata's record been more impressive for us since he joined by Jauzaj's. Not saying hes been great, just better than mr over rated. I'm not going to keep coming back to this thread and rezponding because the unfounded Januzaj love is baffling.
You'll be dearly missed, downtheplughole.
Your hatred for him influences your opinion on him. therefore you are just as ridiculous as these so called "fan boys". When criticising a player, at least perform it with a neutral perspective or attempt to.
You yourself counted 14 out of those 15 incidents where he lost the ball, yet you still go on to say "he lost the ball about ten times." Here are also some other clear incidents which you missed in the video as well:
1:30 Bad pass to Welbeck, goes out of bounds resulting in Chelsea's goal kick
5:30 Bad pass resulting in Chelsea regaining possession (which is edited out to make him look better)
5:44 Gifts the ball to Cech
And this is all without including even more losses of possession which the video maker decided to edit out. And then it is easy to see why they said he lost the ball a massive 22 times against Chelsea (yes "lost" as in transfer possession).
Unfortunately, it is impossible to explain the philosophy in a single post. You could write a whole book on it.
But (part of this philosophy) I can tell you this; The philosophy is the be all, end all. When we win trophies, when we enjoy lots of success, it will not be because we have better players, not because our star players played better, not because our transfer windows are good, not because of legendary man management skills but because our philosophy(which in a way though, affects all those other factors) is better and we live and die by it.
That's because context is important. I listed times where you yourself might count it as a loss of possession. For example, I listed a great cross as one of those instances even though I wouldn't count it. I also listed a time where he was given the ball (a difficult ball to deal with) where if he came up with possession of the ball he would have been praised for it.
And what instances did he edit out?
The ball didn't go out at 1:30.
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...r-stats/154976/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
At 5:30 it wasn't that bad a pass. It was practically a 50/50, and there is no way of knowing if it resulted in Chelsea possession. It could have been kicked out for a United throw in.
At 5:44 the cross gets deflected and goes into Cech's hand rather easily. That one is a loss of possession.
It's just silly to say that he lost the ball 22 times because he didn't. None of the stats say so. The vid doesn't say so and since when does anyone count every cross or pass that doesn't end up in a player's head or feet a loss of possession where a player should be crucified? A cross is a great cross if it's put in a great area regardless of whether it finds a teammate. A pass can be put in a great area where the defender kicks it out. It counts as a misplaced pass, but it doesn't result in the other team's possession. A cross can be deflected out for a corner, but in your mind it's a loss of possession because it wasn't counted as accurate in statistics.
Di Maria is a great example. He puts in great crosses match after match and they don't always find a United player. In your mind he should be criticized for these crosses because it was a loss of possession, but that's not how football works. Nobody is going to have a 100% cross rate nor should they decide when to cross based on the absolute certainty it will find a teammate otherwise nobody would cross. Valencia is an example where the stats do tell the whole story because he constantly drills his crosses. There is no variety and no thought into his crosses.
Anyways I'm done with this silly argument. You'll never understand that a pass or cross that doesn't find a teammate doesn't automatically result in the other team's possession and you're the only one who thought he wasn't one of United's best players that match as the MOTM thread I linked clearly showed he was. A game vs Chelsea at 18 isn't going to make or break Januzaj, nor does it show that it's impossible for him to do well in a LVG team in the future.
His philosophy refers to a number of things. Playing style, the way he conducts trainings, the way he talks to players, the way he analyzes the performances of the players, coaching staff, and himself, the characters of the players, etc...
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Not gonna watch the whole match again to find out exact times, but there are instances such as @54:30 (match time) which is yet another loss of possession, typical for video makers to edit those out.
You say the ball didn't go out at 1:30. That is just trying to be technical because it doesn't make a difference. Sure, Welbeck managed a touch before the ball went out but doesn't change the fact that it was a bad pass by Januzaj and his fault that we lost possession, not Welbeck's.
You say that there is no way of knowing if the pass at 5:30 resulted in Chelsea's possession and that it could have resulted in our throw in. Except there is a way of knowing (watch replay if you don't remember), and it did result in Chelsea's possession and it didn't end in our throw in. Once again typical of video makers to edit it to make it look not as bad, so don't assume things. Just because he loses the ball 18,19,20 times instead of 22 doesn't make it much better.
You say that a pass or cross could be deflected for a corner, not necessarily ending in another team's possession. Except that in the instances we did point out, his passes did end in another team's possession, his crosses did end in another team's possession. Furthermore you say that a cross is a great cross if put in a great area regardless of whether it finds a teammates. If only that was true, a beautiful cross but one sent in when no teammate is in the penalty box would be great? Furthermore, as I have said before crossing is an art of quantity, not quality, usually something a player does when they have no other ideas. 1.6% of crosses resulted in goals in 2011. And one significant factor of this is the very fact that most crosses don't even reach teammates. You would have realized by now that we don't play with a David Moyes philosophy, there will not be another Fulham repeat.
Di Maria is indeed a good example because for the great player he has indeed been subtlety criticized for those "unnecessary losses of possession" as LVG put it. May I ask how many of his crosses has resulted in a goal for us so far? Zero, I believe is the answer. I remember particularly in the game against Everton: the one time that Di Maria decided to not cross the ball, Falcao scored his first goal for us. Valencia is also a good example, look where the cut outside, drill in cross, one trick pony is now in the world of football.
Nice to know that you are done with this "silly argument." As I said in my very first post, he doesn't have the mindset for the philosophy. This was further evident in the West Brom game which at least brought some people to their sense. The "young lad" who likes to "take his man on" and "send some good crosses in" may excite a mid table team and fulfill their philosophy. But this is Manchester United.
All this shit for a 19 year old making his way at United, bloody hell.
Am I in RAWK? 
I can't stand players who keep the ball for a little bit longer than they need to - often they just run into trouble or stop the attacking flow - Januzaj is one of these players. He's on a mission to make an individual impression, which is suicide. If he can concentrate on creating assists and helping the team - he'd be a big selection headache for LVG.
It's bewildering. I'm pretty much at a loss to read what people like World's Game have to say about Adnan. It's just brutal... A kid not even twenty years of age who has shown so much is getting shredded by keyboard wankers.
Well, I'm sure those issuing the completely over the top criticsm are qualified to do so...
I was questioning myself for a second too. O_oAm I in RAWK?
He seems to do this more when he's not the main man.
I think he's struggling with the quick shift which has seen him go from hugely-hyped key player to squad player within months.
It's as if he feels the need to over impress, whereas he's better off playing his more natural game.
With all of the goings on at United, it's a bit of a Zaha situation again. Just not as extreme.
To be honest I also thought this about him during his first team appearances last season, he needs to learn that sometimes the pass is the better option. Although I do like the fact he has the confidence to take on teams by himself. He just needs to find that balance, and improve his decision making and he will be a devastating player hopefully for us in the not to distant future.
Yeah, he likes to slow the game down and take a extra touch instead of letting the ball go early. That's just his playing style so far.
Looks bad when he's not beating players lacking confidence and match fitness or getting double teamed.
He's better when he's allowed to roam in than asked to run the line out wide too which is a mistake LVG made for me. Should have allowed the 3 behind RVP to roam around freely but it was all too rigid.
Pogba turned 19 while he was at United. He had only played a couple of first team minutes (7 sub appearances). Then he went to Juve. Januzaj turned 19 last season and put in a lot of great performances as an 18 year old. If you were to compare both at 18 years old, Adnan is more established by the same age. Pogba broke out as a 19 year old who turned 20 in the 2nd half of the season 2 years ago. This season is Adnan's season as a 19 year old so how is it fair to say that Adnan can't be at Pogba's level? What I'm saying is that people should wait a bit before writing off Adnan's talent.
It's still very early in the season and his career. People need to show more patience before making a sweeping judgement.
so you and i are saying the same thing basically .i.e. adnan is young and needs time and patience.
pogba didnt get an opportunity to shine as an 18yr old. But when he was given the opportunity as a 19yr old at juve he did very well. yes he turned 20 near the end of the season in march but by then he had made a sizeable impact which inlcuded winning goals in matches and a couple of wonder strikes (the one against udinese in particular was insane).
You are right when you implied that it might be too early to start estimating if januzaj is in the same class as pogba, but januzaj needs a lot of game time, as much as last season, to keep improving as a player and he wont get that with performances like monday night. sterling now and pogba in the past have benifited from getting games, but they also kept their place in the side by not letting their performance levels drop. I didnt see pogba have a stinker for Juve to date like Adnan had on monday.
Basically the additonal point im making (in addition to the point both of us are making) is that adnan will not get oportunities like pogba and sterling if he continues to squander away chances to start games. Players like Mata are not performing well, and apart from di maria there is no other world class winger in our squad. The time is perfect for him to take his chance, world class talents have always taken the opportunity and cemented their places as starters. Adnan is only 19, but so is Sterling. he needs to take his opportunites.
His style where he takes longer on the ball was probably more suited to how we played last year. Teams would sit deep against us, soak up the pressure and counter attack as they knew most of the time we would cross it and it wouldn't create a goalscoring chance. With the opposition inviting us onto them, it was hard to play with any tempo, mainly our fault, but it meant Januzaj had time on the ball and could slow it down and then beat his man which made him look very good.
Now we are attacking the opposition with pace or at least trying to so he just needs to adapt to a counter attacking system or a more intricate, fewer touches style where the ball is moved quickly. I've no doubt he will develop into a key player for us, Mata being there doesn't help him in terms of playing time, but he's young and can no doubt learn of him, this season will be tough for him, game time may be limited unless there's mass injuries or we go with 4-3-3 more but he will get used to LvG's system and develop into the player we think he can be.
It's very rare for a player with his vision, technique and weight of pass to be able to beat a man as well, he has some of the features of Mata & Di Maria combined. Excellent passer, short and long, can put the ball through the eye of the needle and can weigh in with goals but Januzaj has the ability to stand his opponent up and beat him either side with pace or agility which is an excellent skill to have and something only Nani has provided in the last 4-5 years. He just needs to add consistency to his game and iron out his flaws which will come in time no doubt.
Now we are attacking the opposition with pace or at least trying to so he just needs to adapt to a counter attacking system or a more intricate, fewer touches style where the ball is moved quickly. I've no doubt he will develop into a key player for us, Mata being there doesn't help him in terms of playing time, but he's young and can no doubt learn of him, this season will be tough for him, game time may be limited unless there's mass injuries or we go with 4-3-3 more but he will get used to LvG's system and develop into the player we think he can be.
It's very rare for a player with his vision, technique and weight of pass to be able to beat a man as well, he has some of the features of Mata & Di Maria combined. Excellent passer, short and long, can put the ball through the eye of the needle and can weigh in with goals but Januzaj has the ability to stand his opponent up and beat him either side with pace or agility which is an excellent skill to have and something only Nani has provided in the last 4-5 years. He just needs to add consistency to his game and iron out his flaws which will come in time no doubt.
Nice to see some sanity return to this thread today.
Sanity is overrated !
Interview with Januzaj on MUTV -
Been hearing some rumours on the grapevine that he might be sent to Ajax for a loan spell. Can't recall where I picked it up but thoughts?
Too expensive for Ajax according to VDS. Apparently.
If we felt the need to loan him out, can't think of a much better club to loan him out to. Ajax would be perfect for him with their style of play and the level they're competing at.
Considering how well Ajax is doing financially, it should not be the case. But then again, we bought jack this period and lost our good players, so there's that.
Adnan is apparently on pretty high wages, relatively speaking - that's what VDS is hinting at, at any rate. I guess it's a matter of wage structure and whatnot - if there's anything to it at all, that is.
Wait and see I'd guess. But I would love to see it happen. Better for Adnan and better for Ajax.
Yes - it's not the worst club to send him to on loan, that's for sure.
I Think this could be a very good opportunity for all parties should the rumour be true. If so we could perhaps agree to pay a portion, if not all of his wages, as we are doing with Nani. I'm not really happy with the idea but in Adnans case it could be a worthy investment.
Might be doing well financially by Eredivisie standards (great to hear by the way, would love for Ajax to be able to compete a bit more on the European scene) but I doubt they can afford even modest EPL wages.
Aye - I agree. This season it'll be very difficult for Adnan to make much way here, I reckon. Normally I'd be against loaning our most promising youngster rather than giving him whatever minutes he can get - but this season is exceptional and Ajax would be perfect for him, you'd think. Give him a chance to develop his game under coaches who know their football - and get plenty of first team experience for a great club.
So, yes - if it's just about the money we should definitely offer to cough up parts of his wages. If there's an interest here surely a deal can be struck - relations between United and Ajax should be excellent at the moment.
Hope he starts on Sunday, dropping him after one poor game isn't going to help his confidence.
But carrying players who aren't performing against Chelsea could be really bad. Although it's not like many others are impressing that much anyway.
You could say that for Januzaj, Mata, and RVP. Honestly none of those players have earned a start vs Chelsea so none of them should feel unhappy should they be benched.
I think he should start declining Belgium call ups if there are u21 matches during the international break because he's not getting playing time there. He needs all the playing time he can get.
The performance against WBA was probably caused by a lack of confidence and playing time. Bringing out the best in him will be one of LVG's big challenges.
Not sure when we'll see him given another chance to be honest, we have tough games and I think LVG will look to tough playersclike Valencia and Fellaini instead.
A loan could work well, we'd prob have to pay half his wages but small price to pay if he comes back a useful player.
A loan could work well, we'd prob have to pay half his wages but small price to pay if he comes back a useful player.
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