I doubt Van Gaal cares about any of that. He's been around plenty of talented young players and most recently oversaw the rise of the likes of Kroos and Muller at Bayern. He knows how to bring young players along, so I'm not concerned. Adnan also strikes me as a more stable player than the likes of Pogba, in that he seems to be someone who will stay at one club longer than others.
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I doubt Van Gaal cares about any of that. He's been around plenty of talented young players and most recently oversaw the rise of the likes of Kroos and Muller at Bayern. He knows how to bring young players along, so I'm not concerned. Adnan also strikes me as a more stable player than the likes of Pogba, in that he seems to be someone who will stay at one club longer than others.
Go talk to a real Bayern fan, and he'll tell you that although LVG gave them their debut, he actually didnt want Alaba / Kroos and if it wasnt for their board Alaba Kroos wouldnt be at Bayern.
So what are you saying ? Van Gaal doesn't care about youth ? I'd imagine his career track record might dispute this.
No, he does, but lets not act as if because he has promoted much youth their is a guarantee that Adnan will be fine. I think Adnan will look up to his pal Pogba, he left United and it couldnt have gone better since, which club doesnt want him? He is now known as one of the biggest talents around and some call him even of the best midfielders around, wat Pogba has done is far more stable than just sit on the bench and dont get a chance.
Well that's true. The priority here isn't Januzaj - its the squad and the system that drives it. If Januzaj exhibits the quality his forum fanboys insist he has, I'm sure Van Gaal will find a way to leverage it in his system. Its what I like about Van Gaal - he seems to care less about the hype of individuals and more about whether or not each individual is a team player. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Like Fergie you mean
That's why he has the need to play RVP/Roo/Mata while its clear it doesnt work, about the 352 it will never work and I guarantee you that. Januzaj is not world class, but he is one of the best we have atm. For him to be relegated back to a place on the bench in a system that doesnt suit hem is frustrating, that's why if this continues a lot of people reckon he'll leave. LVG will find a way to leverage it in his system, what do you guys think? He is no God, the last good match he has had was against Spain, he is clearly struggling with this system.
Patently not true. If that was the case then why does it appear Mata, Rooney and RVP are undroppable?
Spot on.
We've played 3 league games so far. Hardly conclusive is it ?
No, but our formation seems designed in order to accommodate them.
Probably because they are. Who is going to displace Mata, a player who has been contributing and manufacturing goals since late last year. Doubt RvP is going anywhere and Rooney is captain.
Which isn't wrong, considering the quality of the players in question. However, there's nothing to suggest he'll persist with that formation forever to accomodate them, is there?
If that's the case, you've just debunked what you yourself said about putting the team first ahead of individuals.
No, you're right. And to be clear, my issue isnt with those three. I love them, actually. My problem is that we need to promote youth and quality, two things that Young and Valencia don't provide on any level.
Im resigned to this system and seeing Young and Valencia as wing backs, so that means Adnan only has a chance of playing as one of he top three.
Not sure if that makes sense...
I haven't actually - they are integral parts of the system which makes them undroppable. If they weren't, i'm sure they wouldn't be starting.
Incorrect. Our formation is designed to mask the lack of a genuinely world class midfielder (similar to the Netherlands losing Strootman to injury), quality wingers (attested by Van Gaal himself), centre-backs that are prone to lapses in judgement and injured defensive backs. He's also talked of an abundance of #10s of which Shinji has already departed and there might be others in the future. Believe that Van Gaal isn't one for reputations - neither one of Mata, RVP or Wayne are safe if they keep on under performing. There's conclusive evidence of that in Louis' past managerial trysts - Gomez, Toni, Riquelme and the like.
You cant have it both ways though. You cant say that we need to have a system which puts the team first, then at the same time say our front three players are undroppable. That's simply not a logical standpoint, as those two statements are contradictory.
We don't actually. We need to build a strong team, irrespective of where the players are sourced from. They could all be outside buys or youth players - where they come from is irrelevant. Young and Valencia are obviously not good enough, but still remain decent squad players to keep around to back up the newer signings.
Let's just say they are the least likely of all our players to be dropped (excluding our new buys). They are vital to Van Gaal's system (well maybe not so much with Mata, but he is important).
If we don't promote youth, the youth system itself will fail. If they cant believe that they'll be given a chance, we will end up with an academy as pointless as City's and Chelsea's.
Nevermind the old United adage of promoting youth, which is something our club's legacy is hugely based on.
Hate to break it to you, but our academy is pretty pointless.
We're likely about to sell/loan our two best prospects of the last 7-8 years. Shows it all really.
That's the reality of football in the sugar daddy ownership era. Clubs like United are forced to rely more on outside signings than their youth system in order to keep up with other rich clubs who are ostensibly buying their way to success through expensive signings. We failed to invest appropriately over the past five years, and are now suddenly scrambling to play catch up with other big clubs - probably to the detriment of youth players coming through, although we do have a few good youth players other than Januzaj who can make it.
I agree that this is likely, but It doesn't mean I have to like it.
Ultimately, everyone will agree that as long as we're winning it doesn't matter where the players come. But when we're not, questions will be raised, even if it only is three games into the season.
Again, I want to make it clear that my gripe is simple: any system that requires Young and Valencia to start and play a full 90 instead of a clearly, CLEARLY better player in Januzaj is messed up.
I know, it's true. But at what point does it become insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result?
By this I mean Young and Valencia. It would make far more sense by now to try someone unproven to be given a shot as they cannot possibly do a worse job.
I'd be shocked if Young and Valencia are considered as permanent starters. The only reason they are seeing a lot of playing time now is because they had a full summer tour to prepare under Van Gaal's tutelage, whereas Adnan didn't have the same benefit and needs to prove himself to Van Gaal, at which point he will play progressively more. Easy to forget he's still only 19.
Januzaj pass
Januzaj is - or should be - one of the biggest talents in world football. He is on the same level as the likes of Pogba and Sterling, and for me he needs to be playing every week - I don't care where, just get him on the pitch.
If we were to end up losing Januzaj then even for LVG I think the fans would very quickly turn on him - and frankly they would have a point.
If we were to end up losing Januzaj then even for LVG I think the fans would very quickly turn on him - and frankly they would have a point.
He does appear that way, but nothing shocks me. He's still just a kid, soon he'll have a complete mind of his own.
Is there even any concrete news that Januzaj is leaving?
Still better in terms of giving chances and trusting youth players than every other PL club apart from Southampton.
Both of whom have played a shit load of games during successful seasons for the club. So hardly pointless.
Pretty pointless.
We're talking about two players out of how many? Neither of whom have ever been anything other than squad players for us and both of whom are now apparently deemed not good enough and fit to move on.
It's not exactly a great advertisement for the quality of our youth setup.
We're not talking about just two players though. Evans is another one.
So we've three first team regulars who played a lot of football during title-winning seasons (five if you take into account the games that Giggs and Scholes played during the same period of time) who came from our academy. How many other PL winning clubs can say that? Before those three we had Fletcher, O'Shea and Brown who played a big part in winning the league and the Champion's League (alongside the perennial Giggs and Scholes). Again, how does that compare to other PL clubs?
That's just judging our academy on their influence while still at the club. Looking at the bigger picture, we've produced an awful lot of solid PL players who are having decent careers since leaving United. Who will have earned us a reasonable amount of money, when you add all their transfer fees together.
So, not really "pretty pointless" at all.
I didn't count Evans as that's not within a certain timeframe, though. Him and Fletcher were certainly good products of the academy.
Anyway, I wasn't comparing it to other PL clubs, I said it's pretty pointless, by the supposedly huge standards we seem to have with our academy. A poster was complaining that we're not really putting faith into it any more, but why put faith when it can't produce any top players for us? Adnan will hopefully be the exception to that.
You can argue all you want that we've still gotten more games out of academy players than plenty of other PL clubs have, and that's true, but I'm not sure how Tom Cleverley getting lots of games can be construed as good, really. We simply haven't produced an academy product good enough to be a regular first XI player for us in a long time.
I don't really see the academy as breeding ground for "stars", though. Not when we're talking about English/Irish players anyway, as they'll only ever be as good as the national team they might end up playing for (i.e. in recent years, not very). If our academy can keep churning out decent squad players that's still a valuable resource. In terms of potential stars, they're more likely to start their career in another academy and move to United when they're a little older. Januzaj and Rafael the most recent examples. Pogba, Rossi and Pique also being relevant. A pity their careers turned out the way they did but still reflects well on our academy that we "produced" them.
This might change if the quality of English player being produced in general is on the up. Liverpool have Sterling and the careers of Wilson, Rothwell, Mitchell and Pearson might follow a similar path. Time will tell.
This might change if the quality of English player being produced in general is on the up. Liverpool have Sterling and the careers of Wilson, Rothwell, Mitchell and Pearson might follow a similar path. Time will tell.
Not sure how reliable he is but he's followed by some high caliber Manchester based Journalists like Mike Keegan.
I think Januzaj should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
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