Adam Wharton - looks destined for big things.

McLvnsMuse said:
There are more mentions of Wharton in other player threads than his own. I encourage folks to actually watch him more before we accede to the crazy transfer fees being suggested.

Not saying he’s a bad player. Far from it. It does feel like people are idealizing Wharton without actually seeing him play.

That’s how you end up with crazy valuations and unnecessary fan pressure to “make it happen”
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McLvnsMuse said:
Watched that game. He wasn’t even the better CM for Palace and Brentford made the pairing look a bit meh
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Hooked at halftime. He’ll come good but he’s not the savior the fan base crave right now. Certainly not at the prices suggested.
 
McLvnsMuse said:
Hooked at halftime. He’ll come good but he’s not the savior the fan base crave right now. Certainly not at the prices suggested.
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I feel like people were more took by the concept or idea of Wharton — a young English holding midfield to sit beside our other young English midfielder and “sort out midfield for the next 10 years”. Would’ve never worked.
 
Prefer us to go for Baleba at Brighton who seems to really be coming on leaps and bounds this year.
 
McLvnsMuse said:
Hooked at halftime. He’ll come good but he’s not the savior the fan base crave right now. Certainly not at the prices suggested.
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Well Kobie and mostly Eriksen rolled into town and showed him who's the boss.
 
It’s really strange how eager people are to write off young players; going by what we’ve seen this season, Mainoo isn’t worth any of the praise received last season, either.

At least give these youngsters time to find their feet amidst newfound levels of pressure and attention before declaring anything.

It’s actually a vital component to assess. Adjustment, adaptation and overcoming adversity, so lets see how things unfold before excitedly striking very young talent off.
 
Fortitude said:
It’s really strange how eager people are to write off young players; going by what we’ve seen this season, Mainoo isn’t worth any of the praise received last season, either.

At least give these youngsters time to find their feet amidst newfound levels of pressure and attention before declaring anything.

It’s actually a vital component to assess. Adjustment, adaptation and overcoming adversity, so lets see how things unfold before excitedly striking very young talent off.
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Is anyone writing him off? The hype around him on here in the summer was absurd and people were saying some daft things, that people rightfully called out.
daba said:
Prefer us to go for Baleba at Brighton who seems to really be coming on leaps and bounds this year.
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He's fantastic on the ball, but a liability tackling wise. Not a great game against Forest today. Another one who needs more time.
 
Lash said:
Is anyone writing him off? The hype around him on here in the summer was absurd and people were saying some daft things, that people rightfully called out.

He's fantastic on the ball, but a liability tackling wise. Not a great game against Forest today. Another one who needs more time.
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I think my post was pretty clear in stating why comments about his start to the season, eagerly playing him down, are not particularly sound.
 
Lash said:
Is anyone writing him off? The hype around him on here in the summer was absurd and people were saying some daft things, that people rightfully called out.
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It's just the internet age, unfortunately. I feel people are always so desperate to be the first off the mark to make a thread about a semi-promising player, or be someone who championed them early days, so they can gleefully quote themselves down the line if they turn into a worldie. I'm not necessarily saying it's the case here, but I've noticed it a lot on here in recent years.
 
Robbie Boy said:
It's just the internet age, unfortunately. I feel people are always so desperate to be the first off the mark to make a thread about a semi-promising player, or be someone who championed them early days, so they can gleefully quote themselves down the line if they turn into a worldie. I'm not necessarily saying it's the case here, but I've noticed it a lot on here in recent years.
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As OP states, thread was made because he didn’t have one yet despite being one of the stories of the season.

Turning on young players after a few games, when the pitfalls they face are well known and part and parcel of development for most, will never not be absurd, no matter who is in the firing line. You mention the internet age, whilst seemingly unawares that twitter and its ilk are what has the masses do this, given it’s a very modern phenomenon to not give youngsters and new players to the league the grace periods and dips that used to be accepted as common sense growing pains.
 
Fortitude said:
As OP states, thread was made because he didn’t have one yet despite being one of the stories of the season.

Turning on young players after a few games, when the pitfalls they face are well known and part and parcel of development for most, will never not be absurd, no matter who is in the firing line. You mention the internet age, whilst seemingly unawares that twitter and its ilk are what has the masses do this, given it’s a very modern phenomenon to not give youngsters and new players to the league the grace periods and dips that used to be accepted as common sense growing pains.
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As I said, it wasn't necessarily an inference to this particular thread but there is certainly a trend.

In terms of Wharton, bashing him would be silly. But pointing out the early hype was very OTT is fair enough.
 
Robbie Boy said:
As I said, it wasn't necessarily an inference to this particular thread but there is certainly a trend.

In terms of Wharton, bashing him would be silly. But pointing out the early hype was very OTT is fair enough.
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And if he has a massive uptake and swing back to the end of last season’s performance levels? Do those statements get retracted, or which end is perceived as the premature one?

That’s my point with regard to youngsters; wild swings in form are par for the course for many of them, the difference is, we don’t often see players as young as Mainoo and Wharton starting in the PL at ages where every high and low is on a global level of scrutiny, but allowances used to be made for that, where nowadays, the exact opposite of what you’re saying happens, where those quick to pan the slumps are absent or silent during the rebound.

I think there’s a reason for over eager put downs, perhaps as much, if not more than in reverse with clamour to be in the early pack proclaiming this or that player looks special.
 
Fortitude said:
And if he has a massive uptake and swing back to the end of last season’s performance levels? Do those statements get retracted, or which end is perceived as the premature one?

That’s my point with regard to youngsters; wild swings in form are par for the course for many of them, the difference is, we don’t often see players as young as Mainoo and Wharton starting in the PL at ages where every high and low is on a global level of scrutiny, but allowances used to be made for that, where nowadays, the exact opposite of what you’re saying happens, where those quick to pan the slumps are absent or silent during the rebound.

I think there’s a reason for over eager put downs, perhaps as much, if not more than in reverse with clamour to be in the early pack proclaiming this or that player looks special.
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I'm pretty sure I said early on in here that I was struggling to see what some were seeing. So, I stand by that. I feel the OTT hype was a bit much. If someone says he's rubbish, then that's way too much. However, for me, I would want to see a-lot more from him to justify the early hype.

Re Mainoo: I personally saw far more in Mainoo to justify the hype, albeit some of it was obviously OTT.
 
No one is bashing Wharton. A cursory search on the forum and you’ll see his name mentioned in every midfielder/transfer thread this summer.

The running theme being…

He’s ready now
Hes worth *insert obscene sum*
He should have started for England
He’s our missing piece

Like I said…he’ll probably come good but he’s not the silver bullet our fans crave. Not yet at least
 
Fortitude said:
It’s really strange how eager people are to write off young players; going by what we’ve seen this season, Mainoo isn’t worth any of the praise received last season, either.

At least give these youngsters time to find their feet amidst newfound levels of pressure and attention before declaring anything.

It’s actually a vital component to assess. Adjustment, adaptation and overcoming adversity, so lets see how things unfold before excitedly striking very young talent off.
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I feel this is such a typical English football viewpoint on things, Im going to guess its because Mainoo hasnt scored yet? If you actually pay close attention, his playing just as well as he did last season. His ball retention ability is probably the best in the squad.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I'm pretty sure I said early on in here that I was struggling to see what some were seeing. So, I stand by that. I feel the OTT hype was a bit much. If someone says he's rubbish, then that's way too much. However, for me, I would want to see a-lot more from him to justify the early hype.

Re Mainoo: I personally saw far more in Mainoo to justify the hype, albeit some of it was obviously OTT.
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Interest and eyes on him avalanched after around a 15 game streak; he’s being levelled down on the other side in a third of that amount. That alone would suggest eagerness to me, objectively. 2nd season syndrome is real and as I said in a previous post, he is now smack, bang in the middle of a media and fan spotlight that shines so brightly, negative posts are written after a few games at the start of a new campaign, to go alongside an increase in attention and tactical planning on the pitch.

If those same posts are written after 10-15 games, they might have more merit, or at least be seen as objective assessment.

My overarching point is that young players should be given far more time to find their feet as their trials and tribulations are renowned.
 
RedStarUnited said:
I feel this is such a typical English football viewpoint on things, Im going to guess its because Mainoo hasnt scored yet? If you actually pay close attention, his playing just as well as he did last season. His ball retention ability is probably the best in the squad.
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I’ll hazard a guess that you haven’t read my posts on Mainoo.

Point being made is that has been the general perception to his start to the season, as premature as it is for people to make.
 
Fortitude said:
Interest and eyes on him avalanched after around a 15 game streak; he’s being levelled down on the other side in a third of that amount. That alone would suggest eagerness to me, objectively. 2nd season syndrome is real and as I said in a previous post, he is now smack, bang in the middle of a media and fan spotlight that shines so brightly, negative posts are written after a few games at the start of a new campaign, to go alongside an increase in attention and tactical planning on the pitch.

If those same posts are written after 10-15 games, they might have more merit, or at least be seen as objective assessment.

My overarching point is that young players should be given far more time to find their feet as their trials and tribulations are renowned.
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I'm not really seeing anyone bashing him, though. There was some ludicrous hype on here over the summer, with people wanting us to sign him for crazy money. There is always a massive rush to declare young talents as the next big thing, even when it's often far too premature. As you said, this was after a 15 odd game sample size in the PL. I'm not saying he won't be a really good player, but I'll need to see a lot more from him over a sustained period of time.
 
Robbie Boy said:
It's just the internet age, unfortunately. I feel people are always so desperate to be the first off the mark to make a thread about a semi-promising player, or be someone who championed them early days, so they can gleefully quote themselves down the line if they turn into a worldie. I'm not necessarily saying it's the case here, but I've noticed it a lot on here in recent years.
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It works both ways as well, people are happy to say he is average after a bad game. The truth is always in the middle and nuanced. That's just boring for most people and are already entrenched.
 
Lash said:
It works both ways as well, people are happy to say he is average after a bad game. The truth is always in the middle and nuanced. That's just boring for most people and are already entrenched.
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I'm not sure why anyone would care enough about Adam Wharton to become "entrenched" in a particular viewpoint. My point was a broader point about the desperation to proclaim a promising player as the next big after a really small sample size at the top level.

My personal opinion on Wharton is that he has a hell of a lot to do to justify the early hype.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I'm not sure why anyone would care enough about Adam Wharton to become "entrenched" in a particular viewpoint. My point was a broader point about the desperation to proclaim a promising player as the next big after a really small sample size at the top level.

My personal opinion on Wharton is that he has a hell of a lot to do to justify the early hype.
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Just as you said, to be right, early.

Agreed on that, the clamour for him was very odd. People wanted to spend obscene amounts of money on him based on 15 odd games. He does have obvious talent though and I see why people saw him as a good fit, just a little premature.
 
Lash said:
Just as you said, to be right, early.

Agreed on that, the clamour for him was very odd. People wanted to spend obscene amounts of money on him based on 15 odd games. He does have obvious talent though and I see why people saw him as a good fit, just a little premature.
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I would say the dearth of players who can play quality passes from deep, promptly and seamlessly is always going to have anyone who shows aptitude for that in an elevated esteem. Just like defenders are being purchased for their abilities first and defending second, or keepers for their technical skill and distribution over their actual keeping, the hope is the raw attributes become polished and elite and the rest of the game falls in line behind that.

You can work on positioning and logical processes, but you can’t turn a decent or good attribute into an elite one, most of the time, so an exceptional grunt who is not good at the footballing side of things is less likely to be picked over a footballing talent who needs to be better at the grunt work, if the choice is that extreme. Ideally, you get at least an average, if not good grunt with good to great or potentially elite ability, and Wharton enters the fray somewhere along those lines for last season but obviously has not seen anything like that performance level thus far this season.

Thing is, Palace as a whole aren’t doing well. Their star turns from last season aren’t performing like they did last year yet, so it’s not only a Wharton thing.
 
He was good yesterday despite their loss. Doesn't help that Palace seem to be struggling to find form and a settled side after the losses of Olise and Andersen.
 
Rolaholic said:
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We shouldn’t fall into the trap of shitting on somebody else’s youngster just because they’ve been hyped/compared with Mainoo. It’s annoying enough when people do it to our players.

They need time, will have dips and any quality they show in the mean time is a bonus.
 
Rolaholic said:
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If anything, this is good? May lower his valuation for us to come in next summer? I feel the same way with Ferguson at Brighton. Just because they may be having bad patch does not negate the immense talent they have.
 
Dannn411 said:
If anything, this is good? May lower his valuation for us to come in next summer? I feel the same way with Ferguson at Brighton. Just because they may be having bad patch does not negate the immense talent they have.
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I agree. A Wharton-Mainoo double pivot would be seriously good. There's no real need for Ferguson now as we decided to get Hojlund instead 12 months ago, but he's another elite talent whose stocks have declined, for now, although I do expect he will have one or two breakout seasons at Brighton before they sell him for some astronomical fee.
 
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