We shouldn't even have any appetite to listen to any non-united fans crying about who buys us. These hypcritical twats cheered oil-backed City because they were "breaking our monopoly". These ABUs can go suck a gallon of diesel. Things have come full circle.
ACTUAL POLL thread - how do you feel about potential Qatari ownership?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Yes I don’t give a shit what everyone else thinks.
Wouldn’t really choose this kind of ownership if I had any say in it. Which I don’t. Probably will be able to force myself not to think about it from a football fan’s point of view but difficult to say how much the moral aspect will eat away below the surface.
Isn’t that Finnish investor trying to buy the club and then get fans to own half?
I don't think nation states are out here trying to "launder their reputation" by buying clubs in states they already have intimate relations with, no. Neither do I think they have @Figgins on the payroll (DM me for my bank account details if you're hiring, @qatar)
It's a valid point of discussion - loads of fans go on about 'sportswashing' but Qatar is already well washed after links to Barca, PSG, World Cup etc and obviously has huge investments in the UK already
What 'sportswashing' benefit is worth £5bn?
Based on recent reports it appears things could actually be regressing in Qatar now that the World Cup is over and the eyes of the World are no longer on them.
Far too early for anyone to be making such judgements, it's literally a couple of months after several years of positive steps forward
And again, is this discussion even relevant to the question of who is the best owner for Man United ?
Because some people don’t want morally dubious owners who literally have slave labour underpinning their wealth and a belief that LGBT+ fans and women are inferior?
There is a whole heap of irony, some here, not you but this thread, in labelling someone in an attempt to shut them down, and at the same time attempting to call out Qatar as a nation. I've said plenty of times, Jassim isn't the state and to label his bid Qatar while not labelling Jims at a national level isn't consistent. I'm neither in favour of Jims or Jassims bid, I don't know enough. Speculation isn't the only approach to discussion, insisting someone use speculation isn't helpful.
I am happy to use companies public documents and use quality sources, such as INEOS saying revenue was about 64B or whatever with an asterix next to it. Some say that is insignificant, to me, annual reports are communication tools, there is plenty of research that points to cultural aspects, such as companies being secretive, open etc, optimistic, conservative etc in their reporting, which is significant. That is before I even know how they (Jassim or Jim) are financing their bids and how that affects the competitiveness of the club/parent company. Again, I have made it clear, the process will check the financing.
As for this payroll nonsense hh, some on here know my occupation, where i work, and where my season tickets seats are. Anything outside of that, they're making stuff up.
How much gas & oil is still hidden underneath the Qatari peninsula, and how much has been invested in Hotels and tourism in qatar the last couple of decades? My guess is that the royal family in Qatar wants that money for themselves and has no interest in changing their government type (absolute monarchy/dictatorship) or shift the power, where they serve as government, lawmakers, judges and church....
My guess is that they want as little change as possible in that regard.
How much is £5bn for the powerholders in Qatar in the big picture?
I’m afraid football is going the same way as the country, owned by foreign investors, who to be honest don’t really have that much interest in the fans and their opinions. Whatever aspect of life you think about, it’s all about the money. As for any fan ownership, well you can forget that, remember Rushden&Diamonds? rescued by Dr Martens owner, then he stepped back and gave ownership to the fans, result? now out of business. All the years I have been a football fan, (and a United fan) coming up to 70 years, the fans have never been in the thoughts of owners, and to be honest nobody cares who owns the club if you are doing well. If what happened at Chelsea and City, also happened to United ,fans would have no qualms about the morals of the ownership. As Groucho Marx once said “These are my principals. And if you don’t like them…..well, I have others”
How do you know what Sheikh Jassim's views on gay and women's rights are?
Lazy stereotypes again - I guess you think these guys all ride around on camels all day too
And which of our ownership options aren't 'morally dubious'?
Fact is that there are no 'clean' billionaires, all come with some kind of baggage so for me I'm just looking at who would be the best owner for my club
Brilliant post.
He also said. "I don't care to be a member of a club that would have me as a member".
But seriously folks.
Enjoy Mbappe.
Both are simply not true imo. There's surely much more than just money in life. Us fans don't support United because of money nobody pay us to do so for example. Even for the owners not every owner do not give a shit about the fans but money.
And maybe not you but imo most of us fans do care about who own the club. If my memory serves me right there were massive protests, and many even swore to stop supporting United back then when the Glazers bought us. And tbf, if we do not care threads like this would not have existed or people wouldn't fight that much in the takeover thread.
The first one isn’t true, the second sadly is for the majority.
There’s probably a correlation between those who are old enough/have worked long enough to earn enough to know point 1 isn’t true and those who are vocal about being anti state ownership.
I think maybe you misunderstood my post. I was generalising about money being the problem, and in todays environment it is a big problem. I also would never stop following United, whoever the owners were. I spent many years going up and down the country to watch United and had season tickets for a while, but now I am 75 I get my pleasure from watching on TV. I have not been happy with the Glazers, but there was nothing I could do about that, except punish myself by not going to games and not watching them on TV.
I do care, my nerves are fraught every time I watch them play. The only way in this country to change things is if all subscribers to pay TV stopped paying, but sadly that will never happen, and I shudder to think how much the TV rights will go for in next renewal, but who will pay for it? the fans of course.
The support of the loons on Bluemoon apparently. I've seen posts point to support of the Qatar regime as proof that sportswashing works... ignoring it must be a really inefficient way of getting people from other countries to like you...
Why, exactly, do you think they want to buy football clubs?
And in your opinion people going from condemning state ownership of football clubs in general and/or condemning the Qatari regime as corrupt as feck World Cup hosts (with no regard for basic human rights) to...ignoring all that once it looks likely that Qatar are our new owners...is not proof that sportswashing works?
The same reason they buy yachts and mansions and other rare stuff? The same reason billionaires buy football clubs and other sport clubs? To show off.
"Yeah mate, you have a billion dollars in oil money, but let me tell you about the time I [redacted] this model on the Old Trafford pitch... where did you [redacted] yours? The Hilton?"
No. That's proof that people are hypocrites. That's not proof of some plan at work by Qatar/Oligarchs/et al, to show that fans are hypocrites.
Totally agree. The virtuous online keyboard warriors will make a stink about if for a couple of months and then move on to the next shiny object like they always do.
What does that actually mean? Virtuous online keyboard warriors?
You've managed to explain a small part of sportwashing there. Everyone's caught up in the idea that's it about covering up their shameful treatment of migrant workers but that's a very small part of it. It's about creating international and domestic legitimacy for a brutal totalitarian regime and it's the oldest trick in the book. Why do you think Vespasian built the Colosseum?
1. Their shameful treatment of migrant workers has never been covered up. Their foray into football has brought more attention onto their shameful acts, not less.
2. I know I'll have to say this again many times but they already have international legitimacy. Need I mention the many ways they are intertwined with the West through politics, military alliances, arm sales, economics, banking, culture... And that's not even touching the football? This isn't an international pariah like Somalia/North Korea trying to buy Arsenal here.
I don't think this is about bread and circuses, unless you are aware of domestic upheavals in the Gulf States preceding purchases of football clubs to alleviate the dumb masses... Doesn't sound like Qatar.
the sportswashing isn’t worth that much is a disengenous argument
you also get an asset that’s worth 5bn, or arguably slightly less if you think they overpaid
you also get an asset that’s worth 5bn, or arguably slightly less if you think they overpaid
1. Their foray into football was the cause of those a good deal of those shameful acts.
2. The process of projecting legitimacy doesn't stop.
It means you
I note that you like to ask a lot of questions of people but don't like answering any questions yourself
Brutal totalitarian regime?!
We are not talking about Iran or Nazi Germany here
International legitimacy for what exactly? You are a decade too late - it's all done already
It means you
I note that you like to ask a lot of questions of people but don't like answering any questions yourself
I will literally answer any question you have.
Yep sportswashing is done, nothing to see here
it’s like when Doritos sponsored the Super Bowl, it worked so well they ever need to advertise again
it’s like when Doritos sponsored the Super Bowl, it worked so well they ever need to advertise again
If people are against Greenwood ever playing for United again, they should be vehemently against Qatari ownership. These people have done far worse than Mason Greenwood ever did. Personally, I think individuals should be given a second chance (but not a third). Regimes, no way, as their crimes are institutionalised. Interesting that the women's team haven't complained about Qatar in the same way as they have about Greenwood, but Greenwood doesn't pay their wages - these women are a bunch of hypocrites, and if the Qataris come in the first thing they will do is get rid of Greenwood to show that they are against that type of behaviour. The club that was rebuilt out of the rubble of Munich will be dragged to the dirt if the Qataris are allowed to buy our great club.
Go there and try some political dissent, let me know how it works out.
It's clear that different groups are not going to agree on the motivation for the Qatari bid, maybe it'll just be a happy coincidence that the reputation of the nation of Qatar and the reputation of Manchester United will be linked.
Are we alone in the universe?
Some of us more so than others.
Not super happy about it but a club is a club and I can't see myself not supporting United so. I just hope they won't try to please fans only by actually making sure football matters are handled by football people. I think they may have the money but they might lack the football sense, cf. what's being happening at PSG where they still can't win the UCL.
Firstly, I wouldnt be daft enough to go to a foreign country and do anything like that.
Secondly, activist Peter Tatchell did so just before the WC and lived to tell the tale, he was not even arrested - if he tried that in a true totalitarian state like Iran or North Korea then I doubt we'd have seen him again.
Obviously we dont agree but still Im interested in the logic behind your point of view because I dont see it
Well I asked you earlier, which of our ownership options are not 'morally dubious' (as you put it)?
Why do you think Tatchell was interested in Qatar?
Qatar is a totalitarian state, it doesn't require logic because it is not an argument, it is a fact.