Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.

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Kearnkoff69 said:
You're more than entitled to your opinion, but I think that view is shaped by what fullbacks have been asked to do in the last 5-10 years. Gone are the days when someone like Neville - never the most explosive attacker - would be the archetypal fullback. Maybe the game is truly moving toward flair players at outside back, but I would be shocked if we don't see some regression to the mean, where a fullback's defending is prized as highly as attacking ability.
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No, I mean as a whole attacking game and ability to go past players and deliver a quality cross is more difficult to learn than vice versa.
That being said AWB is young and raw still so he will develop further.

Kearnkoff69 said:
To your second point: I would consider Lahm as a defender first, who improved in the attack as he got older. Javier Zanetti as well, although he never contributed as much to the attack as many modern defenders. Ashley Cole, from my memory (although it's been a long time since he was relevant, and I only tangentially followed his exploits at Arsenal) started out as a rock solid defender and became more and more of a wing back as he entered his peak.
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You couldn't be more wrong on Zanetti tho(and actually on both examples). One of my favorite players and he was fantastic going forward. His game evolved exactly in what I mean - when he lost step or two he developed his defensive game and became more conservative. Ashley was wing back for Arsenal and much more attacking in the beginning of his career. Later under Mourinho he became more conservative.
 
Kaglish10 said:
Bissaka isn't even a technical player to begin with. Lahm was a good passer with good vision.
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I sadly have to log off, but you are welcome to your opinion of course. Lahm always was a good passer with vision - I never once argued otherwise - but he was not originally the attacking danger from the fullback position that he blossomed into. He started as a technically gifted but - first and foremost - defensively solid player and later became more attack-minded.
 
Celoti23-81 said:
Young English talent eh! For 50 million too. I'd take every France player above England's players but for foden and Madison.
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Didn't watch the game eh?

France were shit for the majority of that.
 
Kearnkoff69 said:
Yep, and they shipped 38 goals. This year, with VVD, they only let in 24 goals. Makes a big difference come the end of the season.
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So? Again, being good in attack is not about getting in attacking position, but about what you do when you're in attack.
 
I was about to voice my opinion. Know it will just look knee-jerk.

I’m very worried about this signing. Good thing is, Laird is almost ready..
 
FLASH SALE!

Back 2 Skool 10% off!

AWB was £50 million NOW only £45 million!*

Comes with free defensive errors to slot seamlessly into your back four!

Get them whilst stocks last.

*Terms and Conditions apply. Batteries not included. Player will turn to shit once he signs for United. Crystal Palace and Woy Hodgson accept no responsibility for loss of form, ability or performances. Will offer partial refund of 25% excluding P&P if you wish to return faulty player.
 
andersj said:
I was about to voice my opinion. Know it will just look knee-jerk.

I’m very worried about this signing. Good thing is, Laird is almost ready..
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Man, if only he was another year along. Genuinely think he will be brilliant
 
No left foot, useless going forward, loves a dangerous tackle, suspect passing, expensive, would block Dalot and Laird, no thanks.
 
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Enigma_87 said:
No, I mean as a whole attacking game and ability to go past players and deliver a quality cross is more difficult to learn than vice versa.
That being said AWB is young and raw still so he will develop further.



You couldn't be more wrong on Zanetti tho(and actually on both examples). One of my favorite players and he was fantastic going forward. His game evolved exactly in what I mean - when he lost step or two he developed his defensive game and became more conservative. Ashley was wing back for Arsenal and much more attacking in the beginning of his career. Later under Mourinho he became more conservative.
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I may be remembering incorrectly about Zanetti - I remember him being a real "pendulum" type player from the fullback position - always kept the ball moving with smart passes. Inter was a real treat to watch those days - I tried to catch as many games as possible.

RE: the bolded statement. To each his own, and you are welcome to disagree with me. I won't argue that one on one ability is mostly innate and extremely hard to teach, but learning how to cross the ball is, in my opinion, far easier to teach than proper defending. I assume that AWB won't have to do too much of beating his man, and will be relied upon as an outlet where he can put crosses into the box (similar to Young the last couple of seasons). If that turns out to be true, it would be a decent outcome if he improved his crossing even if he never improved his one on one ability - although in my opinion for 50M you'd hope to get someone with the potential to improve his overall attacking game.
 
JJ12 said:
Didn't watch the game eh?

France were shit for the majority of that.
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They dominated! They missed 2 penalties! As I will say again, English players are completely over hyped! That's why I think our strategy of signing young British players to fill voids and take us forward will cost us much more than signing young foreign talent! You could tell that they were technically much superior!
 
Isotope said:
So? Again, being good in attack is not about getting in attacking position, but about what you do when you're in attack.
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Right, and my point was that he's more likely to improve his crossing ability (i.e. when he's in attack) than an attacking-minded fullback is to improve his defending. He already has a solid defensive foundation to build on, which is phase one of counter-attacking, and if he can improve his crossing he'd be very well suited to that style of play.
 
Kearnkoff69 said:
I sadly have to log off, but you are welcome to your opinion of course. Lahm always was a good passer with vision - I never once argued otherwise - but he was not originally the attacking danger from the fullback position that he blossomed into. He started as a technically gifted but - first and foremost - defensively solid player and later became more attack-minded.
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Not sure I agree with that either tbh :lol: Lahm has always been excellent on the ball. His attacking game developed but rather than fulfilling his overall potential. Even early in his career he popped with a good goal and was generally well engaged in the attacking contribution.

Still a lot closer than Zanetti and Cole, that's for sure.

This is young Pupi against Bologna for example:

 
Kearnkoff69 said:
I may be remembering incorrectly about Zanetti - I remember him being a real "pendulum" type player from the fullback position - always kept the ball moving with smart passes. Inter was a real treat to watch those days - I tried to catch as many games as possible.

RE: the bolded statement. To each his own, and you are welcome to disagree with me. I won't argue that one on one ability is mostly innate and extremely hard to teach, but learning how to cross the ball is, in my opinion, far easier to teach than proper defending. I assume that AWB won't have to do too much of beating his man, and will be relied upon as an outlet where he can put crosses into the box (similar to Young the last couple of seasons). If that turns out to be true, it would be a decent outcome if he improved his crossing even if he never improved his one on one ability - although in my opinion for 50M you'd hope to get someone with the potential to improve his overall attacking game.
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Yeah we can agree to disagree on the first notion, mate, no issues. You are definitely wrong about Pupi though, you can search for highlights in the 90's it will be well worth it I promise :)

I'm not against signing AWB, just feel we would definitely need to sign a RW as well if we are to ease him in and develop his game. Also in this way we wouldn't be dependent on him creating in attack, whilst solidifying our back line.

Despite tonight showing (just one off game) we could definitely use him and will improve our backline.
 
Isotope said:
CL Final?

And what does it have to do with fullbacks being good in attack?
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Before VVD? I don't think so.

The point being when you have two clowns as centre backs, your Full backs have to be able to defend primarily.

Liverpool still let their full backs bomb.forward and they would concede at a rate of knots
 
How can Liverpool find two nobody fullbacks and become two best fullbacks in the PL?

Why are we buying a fullback that is at BEST good defensively? I really can see Wan Bissaka being sold in three seasons w(Jones and Smalling still being here).
 
Jordan McKenzie said:
Before VVD? I don't think so.

The point being when you have two clowns as centre backs, your Full backs have to be able to defend primarily.

Liverpool still let their full backs bomb.forward and they would concede at a rate of knots
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Don't forget their three centre midfielders who are primarily there to defend and cover the wide areas, allowing the full backs to bomb on.
 
Celoti23-81 said:
They dominated! They missed 2 penalties! As I will say again, English players are completely over hyped! That's why I think our strategy of signing young British players to fill voids and take us forward will cost us much more than signing young foreign talent! You could tell that they were technically much superior!
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I think it is pretty absurd to say France were technically superior. England created the best chances with slick play and good movement. Most of their chances before the red came from jumping on defensive mistakes and countering. France looked like a team of athletes out there.
 
Heard UTD fans started an online petition requesting board to get rid of Young, Jones and Smalling. I am afraid they might add AWB to that list I guess after this show ;)
 
Celoti23-81 said:
They dominated! They missed 2 penalties! As I will say again, English players are completely over hyped! That's why I think our strategy of signing young British players to fill voids and take us forward will cost us much more than signing young foreign talent! You could tell that they were technically much superior!
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Both penalties came against the run of play. England had a goal disallowed and wasted a few good chances before France woke up for the final 10 minutes. The only French player who had a decent game was Ikone, who looked dangerous on the right.

As for AWB, made a couple of decent challenges and looks strong and of course is still young. A few seasons ago we would laugh off his OG at the end but the problem is that we have had error after error for the past few seasons so it is more highlited for us and more of a concern.
 
Give over, you muppets. AWB is class. A sliced clearance in the 94th min after being battered for 25 mins isn't going to change a thing. This kid is going to be a top player. And if we don't buy him, City or Spurs will.

*Also, nobody is signing him until this tournament is over. Same goes for Maddison and Dembele.*
 
Wal2Fra said:
Both penalties came against the run of play. England had a goal disallowed and wasted a few good chances before France woke up for the final 10 minutes. The only French player who had a decent game was Ikone, who looked dangerous on the right.

As for AWB, made a couple of decent challenges and looks strong and of course is still young. A few seasons ago we would laugh off his OG at the end but the problem is that we have had error after error for the past few seasons so it is more highlited for us and more of a concern.
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If we don't sign a right winger, and persist with Mata and Lingard there all season and we do eventually sign AWB, he will only get exposed and look like 50 million down the drain! Crystal Palace play with a low 2 back of fours, so he is not as exposed! People underestimate how much work Andros Townsend does defensively
 
Celoti23-81 said:
If we don't sign a right winger, and persist with Mata and Lingard there all season and we do eventually sign AWB, he will only get exposed and look like 50 million down the drain! Crystal Palace play with a low block of fours, so he is not as exposed! People underestimate how much work Andros Townsend does defensively
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Celoti23-81 said:
Young English talent eh! For 50 million too. I'd take every France player above England's players but for foden and Madison.
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I take it you're hoping we move on Henderson then?
 
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