Meunier or AWB, either one will make me happy
Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.
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Nah.
Shaw gets dispossessed 0.5 times per game and has 83% pass completion. Chilwell gets dispossessed 1.3 times per game with 72% pass completion, and Pereira gets dispossessed 1 time per game with 78% pass completetion.
As a ball carrier and transition player, Shaw shits on the two Leicester lads.
If you want a reliable outball to transition from defence to attack, Shaw is as good as I've seen in the PL in the last few seasons.
Agreed.
Evolutions in 'modern' football are really just shifts in emphasis against the top teams. If all the current top teams build through the flanks, the best counter-strategy is going to be to shut down the wings.
He was one of the best fullbacks in the league. He is a great defender and players never excel in every aspect of the game. Also, there is nothing more important about a full backs game in ‘modern’ football as opposed to historically - the position is the same, football hasn’t changed.
What do you think about Wan-Bissaka?
Of course it has. You've just seen the team that has just won the Champions League have two full backs who finished in the top 5 assists in the league. The team before them who won the CL 3x on the trot had Marcelo who's defending is routinely criticised, but was by far one of their best attacking players. Guardiola played Zinchenko as his left back for 30 games this season.
The focus of a full backs game has quite obviously shifted to the attacking half of the pitch.
Chillwell is far superior at carrying the ball forward - he is an explosive dribbler and drives forward frequently. Shaw is generally quite tentative and is really nowhere close to Chillwell in this regard.
That’s if you can get his fat arse beyond the halfway line. Your stats provide no perspective. If you try more dribbles in more dangerous areas of the pitch you will lose the ball more. The same goes for passing accuracy if you’re playing simple five yard passes.
Your anecdotes provide no evidence.
We all watched the same matches. Feel free to prove me wrong. Your non referenced stats are not evidence.
Let's be honest here, the bar has been raised by the likes of Guardiola and Klopp and we have to respond to that. When Wenger arrived at Arsenal all those years back, the standards in the top flight were raised and even Fergie mentioned that he had to adapt to what the Frenchman was doing at Arsenal and we sure did respond.
In the present game all top teams have fullbacks that can contribute in attack. That doesn't mean they necessarily have to rack up assists or score goals on a regular basis . But the fullbacks IMO need to provide some nous and know how in the final third especially when playing for a club with huge aspirations to support the attackers and provide width. Chilwell does that better than Shaw IMO and I haven't seen enough of Wan Bissaka to pass judgement just yet in comparison to Pereira who is a very good fullback going forward and only cost Leicester £20m.
Madrid signed Roberto Carlos, Marcelo and Mendy from Lyon just recently due to those players having the ability to hurt other teams going forward. Not sure any one of those three players were heralded for their defensive work. In England we've been left behind by City/Liverpool/Spurs/Chelsea/Leicester, and some would argue even Arsenal, in the fullback department.
I admittedly don't know alot about AWB, but hope he isn't just a defensive fullback, because Shaw on the other flank gets homesick when crossing the halfway line it seems.
My second preference after Cancelo. I also think his dribbling is better than what Shaw has to offer (always comes inside) and has got more unpredictability in his moves.
I already have.
Where have you done that?
More worth spending 60m when we could use the money in the most problematic area in midfield?
What if he turns out to be Prime Antonio Valencia on the peak of his defensive form? One thing is sure that his attacking instincts are not as good as his defensive ones, at the price you have got to be best in the world full back and a complete player.
True.
Is Ferland Mendy one of the best full backs in the world and a complete player? How about Mendy who is wonderful going forward but not so much defending?
The price tag is set by AWB having an established floor is a premium defensive force at RB, and young enough that his attacking capability, which isn't non-existent, can improve as he's just 21 years old.
Hope it's true as he's a real prospect.
That was actually very encouraging to see. Good skilful play to outwit Martial.
The skill to beat wolves player is something that our wingers can't pull off.
Anyways it's a good example of how good he is on the ball.
Ferland mendy is costing 38 m pounds, while we have a bid of 40 rejected for a defensive full back.
Top clubs who focus on attack and focus on better ball retention in their team have the vision of choosing top attacking talents at full backs As they know they will spend most of their time attacking the opposition. We on the other hand are doing exactly the opposite, in 6 months we will have supporters questioning his attacking instincts and how it limits our ruthlessness going forward if we sign him for an insane price.
Where do our preferences lie? To be a poor team on the ball that we spend maximum time defending against top oppositions and full backs struggling to provide width and being not so efficient going forward?
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One reason I'm skeptical about signing this lad is because he is 21 and would likely cost a record fee. If he proves to be unproficient in possession and in attack, then he will most likely flop, and if he flops then we'd have to make a hefty loss or be stuck with a young, big-money flop.
I'm worried that few seem to be bringing up his technical qualities and he is just being praised for being a 'defensive monster'. The best fullbacks aren't what they are because of their defensive skills, but mainly because of their proficiency in possession and contributions in the final third. I feel he'd he another signing that would prove limited in certain important aspects for the position they are meant to play. We have had to deal with Lukaku's poor technique, Bailly and Lindelof's weakness in the air, Memphis lacking that extra yard of pace, Fred's unsophistication in possession, a lack of dynamism with regards to Martial, Blind's lack of pace, Shaw's poor crossing ability etc. All these were, and will most likely be the undoing of these players. The concerns that are being highlighted about Wan-Bissaka's game in this thread are too important to be waved off for a big money fullback imo. I hope this signing does not backfire.
True that.
Rubbish. Attacking fullbacks have always existed. Before Marcelo there was Dani Alves, Maicon. Before them Zanetti, Zambrotta, Cafu, Roberto Carlos. The focus of a fullbacks game has not shifted anywhere and there is no ‘right’ kind of player for any position.
What would you say is the focus of a midfield in modern football? What are the common qualities between Madrid and Liverpool’s successful groups of midfielders? An Ivanovic/ Azpilicueta/ Abidal can excel at fullback just as that kind of player always could.
Well said.
Yeah it’s becoming infuriating. There were overlapping full-backs in the 1970s.
You’d think it was a different sport the way some people go on. I’m not really seeing much evidence of these modern-game style full-backs at all the top clubs either.
Who’s dramatically different to Neville and Evra.
Which big European club doesn't have at least one attacking fullback?
https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/10...FjABegQIDxAH&usg=AOvVaw2iTGrayztJb4onSOsR4KwF
The quoted fee is 49m.
Why can't our vision be that we think AWB has excellent defensive ability and in a team that will have the ball more AWB, a converted winger, can show more in his attacking ability and develop further? Seems completely reasonable.
What if he doesn't?
So your going to pretend not knowing the conversion rate between euros and pounds?
Fee rising to 49 m euros including addones.
No, he ain't suddenly going to develop his attacking game just because we have the ball, Talent is something thats natural you can improve on certain aspects but not much of thats ain't your natural game.
Part of me thinks if he was a brazilian with a name like davinho and played for napoli everyone would be screaming for him. Hes a proven player in this league already and can only improve. If we applied the same way of thinking to other transfers in the past - we’d not have signed carrick or rooney or ferdinand
Then we spank more money until we get someone who can.
"Arsenal's manager did not just have chicken and chips in his sights when he arrived at Arsenal in 1996.
He was determined to make the club's dependable, but limited full-backs, Nigel Winterburn and Lee Dixon, far more attack-minded and urged them to get up and down the flank continuously for 90 minutes, a role which requires immense stamina and speed over short distances".
"Where Wenger led, others soon followed. According to the former Arsenal scout, and Tottenham and Liverpool director of football Damien Comolli, a full-back's role used to be 60 or 70 per cent about defending, and 40 or 30 per cent attacking; now those figures have reversed".
"A full-back is expected to play short passes, to be able to dribble in the final third, to be able to participate in combination plays, and play one-twos and through balls in a small-space situation," Comolli points out. "Before they were expected to just deliver a cross.
"When I was at Tottenham we finished fifth in 2006 and our full-backs were Paul Stalteri and Lee Young-pyo. Those players have got almost nothing in common with Spurs' full-backs now, and were being asked to do completely different things."
Spreadbury says that this idea is taking hold across the country, and that the full-back's role is becoming increasingly fluid.
"When I was watching academy football, there was more emphasis on full-backs pushing up and creating pressure like the way Mauricio Pochettino does at Tottenham. As a team you move as a unit whereas years ago, the back four did their job, the midfield did theirs and the strikers did theirs."
The whole article in the link below..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/10/13/full-backs-became-footballs-important-players/
He was determined to make the club's dependable, but limited full-backs, Nigel Winterburn and Lee Dixon, far more attack-minded and urged them to get up and down the flank continuously for 90 minutes, a role which requires immense stamina and speed over short distances".
"Where Wenger led, others soon followed. According to the former Arsenal scout, and Tottenham and Liverpool director of football Damien Comolli, a full-back's role used to be 60 or 70 per cent about defending, and 40 or 30 per cent attacking; now those figures have reversed".
"A full-back is expected to play short passes, to be able to dribble in the final third, to be able to participate in combination plays, and play one-twos and through balls in a small-space situation," Comolli points out. "Before they were expected to just deliver a cross.
"When I was at Tottenham we finished fifth in 2006 and our full-backs were Paul Stalteri and Lee Young-pyo. Those players have got almost nothing in common with Spurs' full-backs now, and were being asked to do completely different things."
Spreadbury says that this idea is taking hold across the country, and that the full-back's role is becoming increasingly fluid.
"When I was watching academy football, there was more emphasis on full-backs pushing up and creating pressure like the way Mauricio Pochettino does at Tottenham. As a team you move as a unit whereas years ago, the back four did their job, the midfield did theirs and the strikers did theirs."
The whole article in the link below..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/10/13/full-backs-became-footballs-important-players/
Which big European club has never had one?
Reports that fee will be 50 million euros, that's around 44 million pounds.
Also comparing him to Shaw,
Behave.
Man Utd
What ever???
Wenger did infact lead in that time period..
On Full backs being up and down the touchline for 90 minutes ?
Paul Parker
Denis Irwin
Phil Neville
Gary Neville
Were all doing that before Wenger even set foot in the country, and that is just in the premiership era.
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